Author Topic: A snippet of relative pricing information  (Read 69268 times)

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Offline jamespetts

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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #210 on: June 02, 2017, 11:54:22 AM »
According to this website, a Leyland 1 ton petrol van of the LD series cost £694, a 1.5 ton petrol van £728, a 1 ton diesel van £799 and a 1.5 ton diesel van £833 in 1959.

Edit: According to this video, the Boeing 307 Stratoliner had an engine change and complete inspection every 550 hours of flying.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2017, 02:41:14 PM by jamespetts »
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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #211 on: June 18, 2017, 04:38:18 PM »
In preparation for the passenger and mail classes feature, currently in progress on the passenger-and-mail-classes branch on Github, I am working on gathering together some information on the relative costs of different classes of passenger travel and postage.

This has not been very easy to find in some cases, but I do my best to reproduce what I have here.

Passengers

Rail

Firstly, rail fares from 1844 onwards until nationalisation in 1948 for third class passengers had to be charged at no more than 1d/mile. The actual rates that they charged, so far as I can find, varied considerably. What I need to try to find is a ratio between first and third class fares (and likewise second class fares).

This article refers to prices on the Stockton and Darlington Railway in 1825 - passengers were initially conveyed on the whole 19km route for 1s (12d). The following year, passengers were allowed to travel in uncovered wagons for 9d. The passengers in the covered carriages thus paid 1.33x the price of the passengers in the uncovered wagons.

This website gives historical prices for travel on the Bournmouth Belle in the 1950s, with 3s 6d first class and 2s third class, the ratio of first to third in this instance being 1.7x.

This forum gives the prices of 7 day all lines rover tickets in 2009, being £650 for standard class and £990 for first class, giving a ratio of 1.52 first to standard class.


The above poster gives fares for an extension of the Liverpool and Manchester Railway to Warrington in 1831. Between Warrington and Newton, the fare is given as 1s 6d for first class and 1s for second class, giving a ratio of 1.5 first to second class. Between Warrington and Liverpool or Manchester, the first class fare is 4s 6d, and the second class fare is 3s 6d, giving a first to second class ratio of 1.285 (an unusually low ratio and curiously different to the Newton to Warrington fares).

That is all of the historical information that I have easily been able to find. Contemporary information is, of course, easier. Classes are regularly used in rail and air travel. The National Rail Enquiries website gives the price of a standard class (flexible) London to York ticket to-morrow evening as £122 and a first class ticket as £200, giving a first to standard class ratio of 1.63. From Edinburgh to Glasgow, the fare is £8.80 standard class or £13.40 first class, giving a 1.522 first to standard ratio. From London to Bristol, the standard class fare is £102 and the first class fare £176.50, giving a first to standard class ratio of 1.73. From London to Manchester, the standard class fare is £169 and the first class fare £242, giving a first to standard ratio of 1.43x. From Leeds to Liverpool, the standard class fare is £32.10 and the first class fare £41.30, giving a first to standard ratio of 1.28. From London to Brighton, the standard class fare is £27.80 and the first class fare £41.70, giving a first to standard ratio of 1.5.

For my sample of contemporary (2017) peak time weekday rail fares, therefore, the standard class to first class ratio goes between 1.28 to 1.73, with a mean average of 1.515.

Air

Skyscanner gives a good impression of contemporary air fares.

London Heathrow to New York JFK on a Monday morning costs £1,258 in economy, £1,760 for premium economy, £4,999 for business class, and £8,126 for first class giving the following ratios of each class compared to economy:

premium economy: 1.39;
business: 3.57; and
first: 6.45

For a shorter haul flight, from London Heathrow to Frankfurt Main, economy class fares start at £270, premium economy is not available, business class starts at £578 and first class is also not available. This gives a ratio of 2.14 business to economy.

Bus/rail comparison

This website gives a good comparison between 'bus and Underground fares in London. The ratios vary from 0.35 in 2004 to 0.4 in 2007 to 0.38 in 2016.

Mail

In some ways, mail is more straightforward. Contemporary information from the Post Office can be found here and here.

A first class stamp currently costs £0.65 and a second class stamp costs £0.56, giving a first to second class ratio of 1.16. According to historical data from this article in The Guardian newspaper, in 1980, a first class stamp cost £0.12 and a second class stamp £0.10, giving a first to second class ratio of 1.2, which seems therefore to have stayed constant for a number of decades.

Special delivery, meanwhile, costs £6.45, giving a ratio of 11.51 compared to second class post.

Edit: Speaking to my father, who is a stamp collector, he tells me that early air mail cost about 2.4 times the cost of surface mail. Special delivery is probably not a sensible comparison, as this involves payment for an additional feature (the "signed for" service) beyond transport that is not simulated in Simutrans.

Possible conclusions

The plan is to have 5 passenger classes and perhaps 3 mail classes. It seems evident that some of the rail fares above for passengers, although nominally of the same class, are likely to be targeting different markets with different levels of income.

Accordingly, mapping some sensible parts of the above ratios to the planned classes, we might use these figures (the classes given being equivalent of railway classes)

Class 0 ("very low"), 4th class: 0.6
Class 1 ("low"), 3rd class: 1.0*
Class 2 ("medium"), 2nd class: 1.33
Class 3 ("high"), 1st class: 1.5
Class 4 ("very high"), 1st class: 2.0

* This should be set to be equivalent to 1d/mile in 1900, and inflation adjusted for other years.

Edit: Addendum

Some very interesting calculations suggest a heartening degree of long-term consistency in these prices.

If we imagine paying an inflation adjusted 1d/mile from London to New York, we find that this is surprisingly close to the modern economy class air fare. So, New York is 3,470 miles, which would be 3,470d. Each old penny is 1/240th of a pound, so that would work out as £14.46 in the decimalised equivalent in 1900 figures. Adjusting this for inflation using the CPI from this website, we get £1,674.45, which is very close to the current premium economy fare, and 1.33 above the economy fare.

From New York to the original city of York, that distance is 174 miles from London. 174 / 240 = 0.725, giving £83.38 in 2017 terms, cheaper than the peak time standard class fare (which is 1.46 times higher than it), but more in line with the advance purchase standard class fare of £64.00 (and applying the suggested 0.6 ratio for very low/4th class above produces the figure of £50.03, which is very similar to the lowest possible fare of £53.00 travelling with an advance booking at an earlier time.

These figures, taking a simple pence per mile approach, also suggests that passengers are not likely much to benefit from the fare stages system (at least, for long journeys) that is rather more important for goods.

Edit: Addendum, Part II

Applying the same process for mail, assuming that first class mail is 1.2x second class mail and that air mail is 2.4x first class mail, we get:

Class 0 - ("low"), 2nd class: 0.83
Class 1 - ("medium"), 1st class: 1.0
Class 3 - ("high"), air mail/express delivery: 2.4
« Last Edit: June 18, 2017, 06:13:53 PM by jamespetts »
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Offline jamespetts

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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #212 on: June 27, 2017, 08:11:02 PM »
Having been away in Cornwall for a day or two, I have not had a chance to work on the coding, but, on the train back, as I am now, I have been able to do a small amount of research into how vehicle maintenance costs vary over time, which will be useful for calibrating the forthcoming maintenance features discussed in another thread.

Firstly, aircraft. This document by the RAND Corporation gives a very interesting insight into how aircraft maintenance costs increase over time. This is done by time, it should be noted, not distance, so this might be somewhat hard to calibrate. It normalised a 6 year old aircraft's maintenance costs at 1.0, and found that a new aircraft's maintenance cost was 0.4, at 12 years maintenance was 1.2, and that it increased only insignificantly (0.7% per year) after that.

Meanwhile, this set of PowerPoint slides from 2007 shows the relationship between fuel costs, parts costs, maintenance labour costs, driver costs and other costs for running 'buses, which, while not giving any indication of the variable maintenance costs with time, does at least give a good idea of which parts of the costs should be varied (parts, maintenance) and which proportion should not be (drivers, fuel). It gives fuel as 13% of cost, drivers as just under 40%, parts as 5%, maintenance staff as 6.3%, oveheads as 12%, pensions as 3.8% (this is a poor category, as the costs of these should be distributed among the differnet staff categories), staff on costs as 4.3% (ditto), and administrative staff as 6.5%.

Here is an article about  how car maintenance costs increase with mileage. This might be able to be extrapolated to other categories of road vehicle, particularly light vans. It finds that, from 0 - 25k miles, the maintenance costs are US$1.4k; from 25-50k miles, the costs are US$2.2k, from 50-75k miles, costs are US$3k, from 75-100k miles, costs are US$3.9k, from 100-125k miles, costs are US$4.1k, from 125-150k miles, costs are US$4.4k, from 150-175k miles, costs are US$4.8k and from 175-200k miles, costs are US$5k. As with aircraft, the effect seems to flatten with time but continue to increase gradually.

Edit: According to a .pdf which I have downloaded but the link to which I cannot currently find, entitled, "Advanced Clean Transit Program - Literature Review on Bus Transit Maintenance Cost", the maintenance costs of hybrid 'buses start at about US$1.50/mile, increasing to US$2.00/mile at 10 years of age, US$2.50/mile at 15 years of age and about US$2.70/mile at 20 years, whereas diesel 'buses start at US$1.70/mile, increase to about US$2.20/mile at 10 years, US$2.30/mile at 15 years, and US$2.60/mile at 20 years. This suggest an interesting property of these maintenance cost increases, being that the increases are greater in vehicles with more  modern technology. It is interesting to note in this connexion that steam locomotives, especially those used for lower speed, shorter distance work, could sometimes stay in service for over 70 years, and there was at least one example of a pair of steam locomotives built by the London & South Western Railway that were in regular service for nearly 100 years before they were withdrawn when steam traction generally was replaced on British Railways. This suggests that the increase in cost from the base line should be capped based on a setting in the individual vehicles' .dat files, and this cap, as a  proportion of the total amount, should be higher in the case of more sophisticated vehicles and lower in the case of less sophisticated vehicles.

According to a post here https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!msg/uk.railway/Dec6ff14wUg/UCUSQoisVGMJ  the Deltic locomotives had a planned availability percentage of 77% in the 1970s.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 09:31:27 PM by jamespetts »
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Offline jamespetts

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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #213 on: July 28, 2017, 12:24:29 AM »
Some information on the prices of railway carriages from, "Great Western coaches from 1890" by Michael Harris, published by Thomas & Lochar, ISBN 0-946537-82-8.

According to Harris at p. 17, he reports GWR four wheel carriages to have cost £380 - £450 in the middle and late 1890s, while clerestory corridor stock of the same period cost between £1,000 - £1,200 (all per carriage). The first restaurant cars, of 1892, cost £2,130 each; the 1903 cars £1,770 each. On p. 18, he notes that the standard 57ft "Toplight" carriages cost £1,200 each for those panelled in wood, whilst the steel panelled versions cost £1,500 each. The "Toplight" restaurant cars cost between £2,000 and £2,300 each.

On page 41, he reports that GWR non-corridor third class bogie carriages of 46'6" length cost £730 each in 1894, rising to £847 for very similar (but I think somewhat developed) carriages in 1902 when they were superseded by a later type.

An interesting note on dining car revenue is given on page 50: during the last half of 1890, the LNWR conveyed 8,784 dining passengers (an average of 14 dining passengers per journey), total gross receipts from the dining car service being £2,787 (or £0.31 per passenger in decimal currency). The costs are given as £2,817, showing the LNWR dining service to have been making a modest loss at the time (albeit not taking into account the extent to which such a service attracted more travelling passengers in the first place).

On the same page, he reports the cost of the 56ft dining cars of 1896 cost £2,138 each, and the staff costs (one cook, one attendant and one "page") were estimated at £195 per annum between them.

At page 52, he reports that the later 56ft dining cars of 1902/3 cost only £1,770 apiece.

At page 56, Harris states that the steam rail motors produced from 1903 cost £1,738, of which cost £1,100 was for the traction equipment (steam engine, boiler, etc.) and the remainder was the carriage itself.
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