Author Topic: Airplane Flight Height Patch for simutrans-extended  (Read 2098 times)

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Offline Phystam

Re: Airplane Flight Height Patch for simutrans-extended
« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2017, 06:11:18 PM »
In extended version, the prohibited area of building runway is within 5 tile from the edge of your map, but this is very short to land for highly flying aircraft actually.
On the other hand borders are different for each kind of aircraft, since the "landing distance" depends on the topspeed of aircraft, so I cannot determine the border correctly.
Currently, the border is 15 tile from the edge instead of 5.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: Airplane Flight Height Patch for simutrans-extended
« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2017, 07:41:02 PM »
Splendid, thank you: that is most helpful. I will test this further when I get home: hopefully, it will be ready to integrate. Thank you very much for your work on this.

Can I check, incidentally, whether you have defined translation data for any new texts that you have created?
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Offline Phystam

Re: Airplane Flight Height Patch for simutrans-extended
« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2017, 03:55:06 AM »
I defined the translation for that message and it worked well, like this picture(Ja).
I prepared "ja.tab" file for this change in ja branch of https://github.com/Phystam/simutrans-experimental-text.
Thank you very much for your checking!

Offline jamespetts

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Re: Airplane Flight Height Patch for simutrans-extended
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2017, 12:25:16 AM »
Splendid, thank you very much for this. With one or two small fixes and amendments, I have now incorporated this into the master branch, and this will be available from the next nightly build onwards.

The aircraft really do look much better with this. Thank you very much for your work.
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Offline Phystam

Re: Airplane Flight Height Patch for simutrans-extended
« Reply #39 on: October 11, 2017, 10:57:12 AM »
Thank you for the integration!
I will continue to work on bug fix, patch development and other topics.
Thank you very much again.

Offline Vladki

Re: Airplane Flight Height Patch for simutrans-extended
« Reply #40 on: October 15, 2017, 03:07:08 PM »
Juts checked in the demo game - I cannot build runway closer than 15 tiles to the edge of map. Which is quite a challenge on a map only 32  tiles wide ;) - only the two very central tiles are allowed.

Anyway, I have a suggestion, if you are in progress of modifying planes behavior:
In demo game I have a plane that requires 428m long runway (the beechcraft model 18), but the runway is 1 km long. When landing, the plane makes touchdown somewhere around middle of the runway, then rolls to the very end of runway, turns around (still at 60 km/h) and rolls to the taxiway and terminal.

However in real world, planes attempt to land as soon as possible, and if they manage to slow down reasonably somewhere in the middle of runway, they'll get off the runway to a taxiway if possible. So I think that even in the game, the plane should touch the runway on 1st/2nd tile, and continue only as far as is its runway length requirement. After that, it should take the nearest taxiway exit ahead, or turn around. No need to go to the very end of runway

Offline Phystam

Re: Airplane Flight Height Patch for simutrans-extended
« Reply #41 on: October 15, 2017, 03:45:54 PM »
1: 15 tiles to the edge
Yes, I think that this is too large distance for narrow map. Maybe we should allow the number of the tile to be modified by setting of simuconf.tab.

2: landing behavior
I think so, we should change the landing behavior of the runway reservation, to allow the aircraft to turn left/right in the middle of the runway.
However in the current version, the reservation length equals the runway length. Probably it is easy to modify this.

3: top speed of taxi way
In my experience, taxiing airplanes run on taxiway at 60-70km/h. But in Pak128.Britain-Ex, the topspeed is only 20km/h. This is too slow compared with the real world. I am glad if the topspeed of taxiway is increased...

P.S.
The Japanese translation file "ja.tab" is now broken... Please add "ยง" character at the beginning of the file.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 03:57:04 PM by Phystam »

Offline jamespetts

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Re: Airplane Flight Height Patch for simutrans-extended
« Reply #42 on: October 15, 2017, 03:53:55 PM »
Thank you both for your feedback and thoughts. One or two observations. Firstly, as to the runway lengths, from what I understand, the current limit is to ensure that aircraft can land on the runway having approached from a distance. If the end of the runway were too close to the edge of the map, the aircraft will fail to land with a "no route" error at present.

Having a limit on the distance to the edge is not the ideal fix for this. Firstly, as demonstrated here, it seems to affect aircraft even if the runways are parallel to the edge, rather than perpendicular to it: so the edge of map distance limit prevents aircraft from flying in circumstances in which the reason to have that limit would not. Secondly, different aircraft have a different height, and therefore a different glide slope, and need different runway distances from the edge. The ideal solution would be to allow aircraft to fly off the edge of the map to fly into any runway on the correct glideslope, but this may be a very difficult thing to achieve, as this might contradict a lot of assumptions scattered throughout the code that will cause game-breaking problems (or it might not; I do not know, as I have not looked into this in detail). Allowing aircraft to fly off the edge of the map may well be useful in relation to portals/foreign destinations, as discussed elsewhere, in any event.

Vladki's suggestion regarding post-landing behaviour seems reasonable. In addition, you might want to look at Bernd Gabriel's recent patch for Standard on the subject of avoiding air traffic congestion.

As to taxiway speed limits, may I ask whether anyone has a reliable source of real world data on this? If the current speed limits in Pak128.Britain-Ex are not in accordance with real world practice, I shall have to change them.
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Offline sheldon_cooper

Re: Airplane Flight Height Patch for simutrans-extended
« Reply #43 on: October 15, 2017, 04:01:49 PM »

Anyway, I have a suggestion, if you are in progress of modifying planes behavior:
In demo game I have a plane that requires 428m long runway (the beechcraft model 18), but the runway is 1 km long. When landing, the plane makes touchdown somewhere around middle of the runway, then rolls to the very end of runway, turns around (still at 60 km/h) and rolls to the taxiway and terminal.

However in real world, planes attempt to land as soon as possible, and if they manage to slow down reasonably somewhere in the middle of runway, they'll get off the runway to a taxiway if possible. So I think that even in the game, the plane should touch the runway on 1st/2nd tile, and continue only as far as is its runway length requirement. After that, it should take the nearest taxiway exit ahead, or turn around. No need to go to the very end of runway

it makes a lot of sense, even more so to release the fastest landing lane, forming the most dynamic process, and slowing down the process that airplanes go from circling in a small circle to landing.


P.S.> I'm sorry, I have not prepared the 32bit minGW yet, so I cannot build win 32bit version.

Is there any program to use, to make my w7 computer catch other 64bit programs?

Offline Vladki

Re: Airplane Flight Height Patch for simutrans-extended
« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2017, 04:25:04 PM »
1: 15 tiles to the edge
Yes, I think that this is too large distance for narrow map. Maybe we should allow the number of the tile to be modified by setting of simuconf.tab.
Perhaps also showing the number in the warning window would be good.

Quote
3: top speed of taxi way
In my experience, taxiing airplanes run on taxiway at 60-70km/h. But in Pak128.Britain-Ex, the topspeed is only 20km/h. This is too slow compared with the real world. I am glad if the topspeed of taxiway is increased...
I noticed too. I think that's easy to fix in dat files. However do you have some good source? Wikipedia is contradicting itself:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxiing: Taxi speeds are typically 16 to 19 kn (30 to 35 km/h)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxiway: ypical taxi speeds are 20-30 knots (37-56 km/h; 23-35 mph)
(both with further references). Also there is a mention of high-speed or rapid-exit taxiways to allow aircraft to leave the runway at higher speeds, but no specific speed being specified. But I experienced quite fast runway exits.

Offline Phystam

Re: Airplane Flight Height Patch for simutrans-extended
« Reply #45 on: October 15, 2017, 06:29:23 PM »
I made the patch of the post-landing behavior discussed above, see merged-AFHP-v6 branch in https://github.com/Phystam/simutrans-extended. It worked fine within my check. If you found bugs, please comment.
You can download MinGW 64bit version from here: https://1drv.ms/f/s!An79lcCxORLxhe19nTTFE822bfx1Hg

taxiway speed:
In this game, the top speed of the runway is much faster than taxiway, so aircraft sometimes chooses running runway in inverse after landing (depending on the airport structure.) If aircraft can run faster on the taxiway, this issue will be cleared. That's why I suggested this.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: Airplane Flight Height Patch for simutrans-extended
« Reply #46 on: October 15, 2017, 11:06:19 PM »
Splendid, thank you: I have incorporated the changes.

As to the taxiway speed, this does need to be realistic, or else airport turnaround times will be unrealistically short. On the basis of Vladki's research, however, I have increased the speed of the best taxiways from 20km/h to 32km/h. Aircraft will always prefer the runway to the taxiway in the present routing system unless the taxiway has the same speed limit, which is obviously not realistic.
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