Author Topic: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing  (Read 6741 times)

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Offline jamespetts

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I have reconfigured the Bridgewater-Brunel server (net:bridgewater-brunel.me.uk) for testing the current development version (devel-new-2 branch) of Simutrans-Experimental.

For the time being, please note that the saved game on the server may change without notice. I should be grateful for any feedback on whether this works well or has problems.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2017, 09:49:32 PM by jamespetts »
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Offline AP

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2016, 02:02:14 PM »
What settings are required to join this server?

If I search for either "net:bridgewater-brunel.me.uk" or "bridgewater-brunel.me.uk" in the 'enter a server manually' field, it doesn't find it.

I just downloaded the latest game version and pak from the links below:
http://server.exp.simutrans.com/Devel-new-builds/
http://bridgewater-brunel.me.uk/downloads/nightly/pakset/

I tried ticking "show mismatched" but still nothing.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 02:39:55 PM by AP »

Offline jamespetts

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Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2016, 03:38:33 PM »
The server may have been down - I am not sure why at this stage, and have not currently time to investigate fully, but I have restarted it, so hopefully it should be running now.

Entering net:bridgewater-brunel.me.uk in the load game dialogue will allow you to connect if the server is running.
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Offline AP

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2016, 05:29:32 PM »
Interesting - why in the "load game" dialogue not the server dialogue, out of interest?

Offline jamespetts

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Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2016, 09:19:53 PM »
You can connect via the server dialogue, but the announce server is still not working and connecting through the load dialogue is quicker if you already know the address.
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Offline DrSuperGood

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2016, 05:18:12 AM »
I get a fatal error when trying to join. Something to do with quickstone slot (3) already taken.

I am guessing I am using the wrong build or pakset? the instructions as to which the server is running are very confusing.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2016, 09:55:01 PM »
The server should be running the nightly versions available here.

My apologies that this new nightly system is not yet fully set up: I am afraid that debugging some desync issues has taken so long that I have had no time for anything else, including finishing restructuring the development processes to switch fully to a nightly release model.
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Offline libertyX

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2016, 12:29:05 PM »
tried but the server didnt work(

Offline jamespetts

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Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2016, 11:53:23 PM »
I will have to look into this issue in due course. I am afraid that my Simutrans time is currently totally consumed with trying to fix some very difficult bugs relating to multi-player.
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Offline Felix

Is there a way to look up the exact version of the software and data files running on the server (bridgewater-brunel.me.uk)? The announce server seems to be down.

I am building the software (devel-new-2) and data package (half-height) myself on a Linux machine. With any version of the data files (pak), I seem to lack some pak files (DOG_WALKER, etc.). If I build a data package myself by manually adding the missing pak files by hand (under the assumption that they were not deleted when updating the data files on the server), I can connect, but get a synchronization error after some seconds. I think, the issue might be related to a mismatched software or data files version.

By the way, is the separate download of the experimental-specific configuration files still necessary or are they now included in the build/data package? Those files seem to be quite outdated. This might also be related to the issue above.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2017, 02:17:55 PM »
The announce server appears to be running here, but the link on the forum does not seem to have been updated.

Currently, the development builds do not have differentiated version numbers. This was not a problem before nightly builds were introduced and when nobody was trying to play them online to test them, but is more difficult now that there are nightly builds. I am planning to look into a way of giving the builds unique version numbers when I have a chance.

I do also plan to look into the method by which the server is kept up to date (I think that it needs to be programmed to save then restart automatically in the middle of the night when nobody is likely to be playing it so that it always gets the latest version), but I have not had a chance to do that yet, either.

Hopefully, when those things are done, it should be clear what version that the server is running, which should be kept automatically up to date. My apologies for the difficulties that you have been having so far.
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Offline Felix

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2017, 02:25:56 PM »
The exact revision numbers from which the software on the server was build would be sufficient for me. I am building from source anyway.

Don't worry about the difficulties. I am aware, that this is a highly experimental build still under development.

Offline Vladki

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2017, 02:29:50 PM »
May I suggest automatic restarting to happen during the day (noon)? When most players are in work or school?
OTOH If there are players from all timezones, then it really does not matter when it is restarted...

Offline jamespetts

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Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2017, 02:31:53 PM »
May I suggest automatic restarting to happen during the day (noon)? When most players are in work or school?
OTOH If there are players from all timezones, then it really does not matter when it is restarted...

That is an interesting thought - but people sometimes have days off and there are week-ends. On the other hand, are there really going to be many people playing at, say, six in the morning (GMT), which was when I was planning to have the restarts?
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Offline Felix

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2017, 02:36:46 PM »
With packet set Pak128.Britain-Ex-0.9.2, as published on the announce website, I get a lot of missing items. The client is missing "pedestrian-1" etc. while a large number of vehicles is different on the server.

Offline Vladki

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2017, 02:39:21 PM »
That is an interesting thought - but people sometimes have days off and there are week-ends. On the other hand, are there really going to be many people playing at, say, six in the morning (GMT), which was when I was planning to have the restarts?
OK 6 AM, is really a good time to restart. In one of the previous posts I read "middle of night" = midnight, which I did not consider a good time.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2017, 10:50:05 PM »
I have restarted the server with a manually recompiled executable; can anyone running Linux with and the latest half-heights build of the pakset let me know whether they can connect without desynchronising?

Also, anyone compiling on Linux, I should be grateful if you could uncomment the "WITH_REVISION" line in config.default to see whetether the new system for taking the revision from the Github commit numbers works.

Thank you all for your help with this so far.
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Offline TurfIt

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2017, 11:27:07 PM »
"WITH_REVISION" line in config.default to see whetether the new system for taking the revision from the Github commit numbers works.
Don't see how it could...
Code: [Select]
#ifdef REVISION
game_engine_revision = atol( QUOTEME(REVISION) );
#else
atol expects a base10 string.

Offline Vladki

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2017, 11:55:28 PM »
Revision number does not work - it shows 0 in the server list.

I still get desync or crash within few seconds. Now I do not have a pakset mismatch, but did you check for (non)existence of that weird .routemaster.dat file?

Offline jamespetts

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Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2017, 12:58:17 AM »
The code for extracting the Github SHA was suggested by An_Dz, and I have no idea how it was supposed to work or why it does not.

As to the routemaster_rescaled file, it is hard to see how this could cause an actual desync (as opposed to a pakset mismatch, which can be overridden with the net: command in the load window) if the vehicle could not actually have been added to the game owing to its introduction date.
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Offline Vladki

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2017, 07:52:59 AM »
I know that it sounds unbelievable, but I had some problems with my server which were resolved by getting rid of that file.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2017, 10:24:50 AM »
Checking on my server, there is no file called vehicle.Routemaster-rescaled.pak or anything similar in the pakset directory: only the proper Routemaster types are present (i.e. the standard, the long, the trolleybus and the coach).
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Offline fam621

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2017, 08:48:51 PM »
How do I join a server online? :(

Offline jamespetts

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Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2017, 08:56:52 PM »
The online play is not working well at present, I am afraid (in particular, Windows clients cannot stay in sync with Linux servers) - look out for posts in the forum about when this problem has been fixed and when an online game might be more generally available.

Sorry for the trouble.
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Offline Felix

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2017, 09:42:36 PM »
With the latest git version of the software (99d6634f2c44dacc986c84715fb91f942e7a79f3) and the pak files (9a8d1a8e61c296a1d65303643f1f268f0ad24e40) running on Linux (Gentoo, 64-bit), I still get the desync after a few seconds. On the weekend I still managed to save the game before the disconnect. This save game works fine, locally.

By the way, I don't get a package mismatch, anymore.

Currently, I don't have to much time, but on the weekend I might be able to try to help with debugging if this could be of any use.


If I compile with the setting WITH_REVISION = 1, Simutrans reports the first 7 digits of the git commit hash as revision in the initial window ("rf726698").
« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 10:07:58 PM by Felix »

Offline jamespetts

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Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2017, 10:03:47 PM »
If you are able to help with debugging, this would be extremely helpful. I am afraid, however, that this is the most difficult possible sort of bug to try to find and fix.

However, I have just restarted the server with the latest updates on the devel-new-2 branch, including one which might conceivably fix the problem, and I should be grateful if you could test it to see whether it works now. Thank you.
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Offline Felix

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2017, 10:16:28 PM »
Still the same issue.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2017, 10:19:20 PM »
Thank you for letting me know. Unfortunately, I suspect that solving this will take many months given the inherent complexities of dealing with desync issues that cannot even be reproduced locally.
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Offline Felix

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2017, 10:23:21 PM »
Interestingly, the other test server (server.exp.simutrans.com) seemed to work fine.

Offline Vladki

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2017, 10:32:59 PM »
james, could you try your map with my executable and pakset?

I was comparing my pakset (http://server.exp.simutrans.com/pak128.Britain-Ex.zip) with the one from http://www.bridgewater-brunel.me.uk/downloads/Pak128.Britain-Ex-0.9.2.zip, and there are a few differences:

Code: [Select]
vladki@hex:~/simutrans$ diff -ru pak128.Britain-Ex pak128.Brunel-Ex/
Only in pak128.Brunel-Ex/: .Routemaster-rescaled.pak
Binary files pak128.Britain-Ex/tunnel.LT_Tunnel_Fast.pak and pak128.Brunel-Ex/tunnel.LT_Tunnel_Fast.pak differ
Only in pak128.Britain-Ex: vehicle.Routemaster-rescaled.pak

If that is the pak your server is running then the weird file is still there. Just to make sure - files with dot at the beginning are "hidden" on linux, so chance is that you have overlooked it.

Offline Felix

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2017, 10:49:19 PM »
The file also exists in a custom build form the latest sources of the pakset.

Offline Vladki

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2017, 10:53:57 PM »
See the topic here - http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=15906.0
I had similar problem with server.exp.simutrans.com and solved it by getting rid of that dot-file.

Offline fam621

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2017, 09:09:38 PM »
So there are online servers, but I can not join online. What is wrong? Is it that I have Windows 10? :(

Offline jamespetts

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Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2017, 09:18:15 PM »
At the moment, until a very difficult bug is fixed, it is not possible for a Windows version of Simutrans-Experimental to connect to a server running Linux and stay connected. (To give an idea of just how difficult that this sort of problem is to fix, last time that something like this occurred, it took two people four months of doing nothing else Simutrans related to find the problem).

It might be possible to work around the problem by cross-compiling a Windows executable using MingW32 in Linux (which would also provide nightly builds), but this has not been tested yet as setting up cross-compiling is a difficult and complex task in itself.
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Offline prissi

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Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2017, 08:23:28 AM »
I fail to see how crosscompiling could help, since the generated code is the same GCC for the same processor as the mingw compiler that runs under windows.

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Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2017, 11:07:48 AM »
I fail to see how crosscompiling could help, since the generated code is the same GCC for the same processor as the mingw compiler that runs under windows.

It might help in the sense that it is not MinGW in Windows that I use to compile the code, but Visual Studio. I could set up Windows to compile with MinGW and this would have the same effect, but that itself would take a fair bit of work and would not give me the ability to have automated nightly Windows builds, which would be worthwhile for other reasons, so it would be more efficient to put the effort into setting up cross-compiling.
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Offline prissi

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Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #36 on: January 14, 2017, 03:55:18 PM »
Todaz I just set up mingw for GDI build on windows and it took me less than 30 min.

Offline fam621

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2017, 06:11:10 PM »
I have obtained a version of Simutrans-Experimental devel new (from the link in the cross-compiling from linux to windows). Are there any online servers I could join? :)

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Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2017, 06:14:13 PM »
At the moment, this server is running just to test stability, so it has existing late game content already created by a Simutrans user in single-player mode, and may be reset without notice. However, if I am able to get a stable connexion between a Windows build and this server, I might well reset it soon to allow for actual online play with the nightly versions.
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Offline Vladki

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2017, 06:45:49 PM »
The same applies to server.exp.simutrans.com, but feel free to join, explore the maps and test.




Offline fam621

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2017, 07:19:09 PM »
Not showing on my one

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Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2017, 07:52:54 PM »
The listing system is not working properly at present: it is one of the bugs on the list of things to fix. In the meantime, you can join a server by going to the loading dialogue (SHIFT+L) and typing in net:[address of server]. For example, to join the Bridgewater-Brunel server, type in net:bridgewater-brunel.me.uk. However, you will want to re-download the executable file, as I have just fixed an important bug that will cause the game to crash if it is left to run for a while.
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Offline fam621

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2017, 07:56:02 PM »
Where can I find the new exe file? Plus, it loads the load saved game index instead of the server thing.

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Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2017, 07:57:40 PM »
The new .exe file is in the same place as you got the old one.  I do not understand the second sentence.
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Offline fam621

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2017, 08:00:51 PM »
Ok, also read the edit. All I mean is that it loads the load saved game index.

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Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2017, 08:13:25 PM »
This still makes no sense. The problem with the play online dialogue is that the system for recognising whether a server is compatible or not is not working.

To force-join a server, whether compatible or not, you do not use the play online dialogue, but rather the load game dialogue (as I wrote before, SHIFT+L).
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Offline fam621

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #46 on: February 08, 2017, 08:26:50 PM »
Not working.

Offline Ves

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #47 on: February 08, 2017, 08:47:21 PM »
Fam, when you start simutrans, open the "load savegame" dialog (where you usually select which saved game you want to open).
There is a field at the top of that window above all the saved games that is titeled "Filename:" and then a long field where you can type text.
In there you type exactly this text:
Code: [Select]
net:bridgewater-brunel.me.ukand then press "OK"

The servergame should be loading now if you are using correct versions.

Offline fam621

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #48 on: February 08, 2017, 09:08:46 PM »
It works! All I need now is some people to play with and how to make servers. :) UNTIL THIS HAPPENED!

Offline jamespetts

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Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #49 on: February 08, 2017, 09:43:58 PM »
I am currently investigating a problem in which users appear to be disconnected when new users join. I have found and fixed a bug which might cause this, but whether this is in fact responsible is hard to tell without testing.

I should say that bugs that cause loss of synchronisation with a server can be extremely hard to find (to give some idea of how hard, it once took two people four months to find - not to fix, just to find - one such error), so if this does occur, it may be a very long time before it is rectified.

(Also, losing synchronisation with the server might also be caused by the server crashing or being restarted for testing purposes).
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Offline Ves

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #50 on: February 08, 2017, 10:42:12 PM »
Funny thing, who is the other one connecting to the bridgewater-brunel game? The bug that when one connects the other disconnects, makes it a quite funny connecting "dance"! Especially when you dont know who your dancing with  ;D

edit btw, that map is avesome! Who created it?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 11:06:10 PM by Ves »

Offline Vladki

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #51 on: February 08, 2017, 10:50:10 PM »
Click on 'show mismatched' In the network game list, and you'll see all servers. Then choose one that matches your pakset and executable version.




Offline jamespetts

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Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #52 on: February 08, 2017, 11:51:29 PM »
It was me trying to connect, I think, and the map is Rollermaterial's.
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Offline Vladki

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #53 on: February 09, 2017, 06:45:46 AM »
Rollermaterial rocks. Great map.




Offline Ves

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #54 on: February 09, 2017, 06:48:42 AM »
Indeed! And when you thought that you made you'd seen it all, just go underground.... 😳

Offline fam621

Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #55 on: February 09, 2017, 04:39:04 PM »
Now I know HOW to join a server, how do I make one is the next question? :) It disconnected again!

Offline jamespetts

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Re: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental (devel-new-2) - testing
« Reply #56 on: February 09, 2017, 10:47:30 PM »
I am aware of problems with desynchronisation (see here for details) - it will probably take weeks or months of intensive work to fix this. In that time, any server that you create will also have these problems. However, this is not the appropriate thread to discuss the unrelated question of how to create a server. Have you not asked about that on a different thread entirely?
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Offline jamespetts

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I have updated the server to be compiled with the special DISABLE_RANDOMNESS preprocessor directive for testing. Any ordinary client not built with this preprocessor directive will not be able to stay in sync with the server until I revert it to normal. See here for details.
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