Avenue & Roundabout

[Raiser]

Hi,

to learn the basics of painting i'm working on some Avenue and Roundabout addons. Maybe as station-extension or as ways. Besides Aesthetic aspects they are quiet unusual for gameplay but tree covered country roads will certainly look great in the game

So what do you think? Change colours of the fence? Other Tree? Include Traffic Signs? Any ideas?

Here you see a small roundabout - a second bigger one is planed - i added lantern and guiding piles and some shrubbery.



Screenshot





For the Moment...

Raiser

[Vladki]

It would be nice to code it as monument, because when monument is built it is surrounded by road on all sides...
If you want better signs for roundabout, try this: http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=9551.msg89780#msg89780
Latest version of pak files is here: https://uran.webstep.net/~vladki/simutrans/pak128/cs_road.unpacked/

[Sarlock]

Looks very nice, Raiser, good work!

[mEGa]

Really fine Raiser.
Don't forget snowy aspect

[Raiser]

It would be nice to code it as monument, because when monument is built it is surrounded by road on all sides...
If you want better signs for roundabout, try this: http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=9551.msg89780#msg89780
Latest version of pak files is here: https://uran.webstep.net/~vladki/simutrans/pak128/cs_road.unpacked/

Yes , i'll make the Roundabout as a monument. The Signs are exactly what i was looking for - why are they not included in pak128? Thank you Vladki!

[Raiser]

Really fine Raiser.
Don't forget snowy aspect

Thank you mEGa - I await the comments from you pak-artists before i try the winter aspect.

Regards

[VS]

why are they not included in pak128?

Because the sign shows as if on tile A, but really exists on tile B. It also suggests some effect, which is in fact a fake and depends on structure of roads and signs. In this form, I think it's too complicated for lay users (expected reports: It's broken! The sign shows outside road! Doesn't work with driving on left!). Otherwise, it is nice

[ML]

By the way, am I the only one who noticed the billboard on the right?

Is it your work as well, Raiser? Or is it already existing part of the game which I have never seen..?

[greenling]

Raiser
I Like your Tree.

[Sarlock]

I noticed the billboard... and the RV to the top left of the circle, too

I've been thinking of making billboards for quite a while... as a custom addon for putting alongside freeways.  It wouldn't work as a building as I don't think it would like right just randomly placed by the game in an residential area.

[Fabio]

A crazy idea: road signs with negative maintenance. Placing billboards could help you scraping a few bucks, as the adv companies rent your space.

[Vladki]

why are they not included in pak128? Thank you Vladki!

You are welcome. I started to make my roadsigns because those in pak128 are badly positioned and do not look like signs I see in my country. Now they are included in pak128.cz, but if you like them, just download the whole pack (cs_road.pak) and they will replace the standard road signs. And if the pak128 maintainers like their appearance I will be more than happy if they are included in official pak128.

[transporter]

A crazy idea: road signs with negative maintenance. Placing billboards could help you scraping a few bucks, as the adv companies rent your space.

If only that part about being a transportation sim wasn't around :p But maybe instead of negative, they do have a cost, but you get an increase in pax and mail volume for the city/area

[Sarlock]

The general idea is that if something isn't entirely intuitive in its use/placement, it's best offered as an addon than directly included in the pak.  The improved signs are certainly better than the originals in appearance but their use is a bit trickier.  Maybe there's an extension request somewhere in here to make road signs a bit better on curves/diagonals.  I recall as a beginning player how difficult it was to figure out which way the signs were facing when placed (this includes rail signals).

[Raiser]

By the way, am I the only one who noticed the billboard on the right?

Is it your work as well, Raiser? Or is it already existing part of the game which I have never seen..?

This Billboard is just a test modell to look out how some varieties act in a boulevard scene. I'll make some better work to fill this up for a full, typical city boulevard.

The "Friendly Girl" Camper is inspired by shunter's campsite addon "campsite", i just thought this idea forward to this scene which appears, and everybody knows, when he's leaving highways, waiting left or right at crossroads

[greenling]

Raiser
The Photo that you be postet have looks very interesting out.

[mEGa]

I had an idea. Could we not create a special road sign for roundabount and more particularly for rotating parts of streets as my picture shows it ?

What are your thoughts about it ?

[Fabio]

Well, no entry signs are now placed in the middle of the road and this leads to misalignment on curves.
It would be good and useful to realign them to the entrance of the tile they refer to.

[Sarlock]

That would be really nice if we could make that change, it would look so much better than to have them in the middle of the road on curves.

[Vladki]

Just check my signs repository. All my roadsigns are aligned on the border. And the NoEntry sign is included as well.
https://uran.webstep.net/~vladki/simutrans/pak128/cs_road.unpacked/

[Fabio]

Well, no entry signs are now placed in the middle of the road and this leads to misalignment on curves.
It would be good and useful to realign them to the entrance of the tile they refer to.

That would be really nice if we could make that change, it would look so much better than to have them in the middle of the road on curves.

I was wrong, road signs *MUST* be aligned to the *EXIT* of the tile, not at the entrance.
I moved them accordingly. I also updated min speed (80 and 100 km/h) signs to the European standard, on which most road-related features are based. Also road block needed some update.
No entry looks a bit odd at the exit of the tile, so I added also a One Way sign on the other direction, using a standard (square with straight arrow) used in Germany, but also in Italy and in other countries (the more standard blue arrow didn't look well).
In r1081.

[mEGa]

Applause !

[VS]

Ah, perfect!

Just a note - when I wrote the previous message, it was specifically for the roundabout sign.

[greenling]

Fabio
You have by the Signs make a good work.

[Raiser]

I tried the Winter aspect to the small roundabout - comments please

[mEGa]

Good beginnings.
Some suggestions
- I mean tree is not the same as summer stage. they must be.
- Why color of fence is not the same too ?
- the shadow on circle is not right.

I kwow that it's difficult to apply snowy aspect to your first drawing. Maybe you should a little simplify it.

[VS]

Nice one What mEGa says is true, though. Myself, I wonder if the snow fits texture on ground...?

[greenling]

Raiser
The photo look ver good out.
I like it.

[Raiser]

Good beginnings.
Some suggestions
- I mean tree is not the same as summer stage. they must be.
- Why color of fence is not the same too ?
- the shadow on circle is not right.

I kwow that it's difficult to apply snowy aspect to your first drawing. Maybe you should a little simplify it.

Hi, thank you for your replies. Relating to your suggestions i changed the Tree because there was no Winter-Version, adjusted Shadow and restored colour of the fence. Testing in game i didn't find errors. I think the Roundabout is done now?

[greenling]

Cool.
It very nice this tree.

[mEGa]

Hi, thank you for your replies. Relating to your suggestions i changed the Tree because there was no Winter-Version, adjusted Shadow and restored colour of the fence. Testing in game i didn't find errors.

Good improvement !

I think the Roundabout is done now?

I'm agree. it will be an excellent addon imho.

[prissi]

If coded as monument it will also be always a roundabout. Since monuments are only build once, you would need roundabout1 to roundabout9 repeating objects in pak

[greenling]

That it a nice idea prissi.

[Sarlock]

It's very nice, Raiser!  I like it

[Fabio]

[VS]

Roundabout is as a (single) monument in r1134! Thank you!

[Fabio]

In r1134 you also edited werner's monument.
IMHO a monument to a server shouldn't be introduced before 1970.

[VS]

I guess it depends - is primary timeline, or presence of all monuments?

[Fabio]

IMHO monuments should appear at different years (spaced at least 2-5 years) so to reduce the chance they all appear clogged up in a single city.
Most monument in Pak128 are tributes to Simutrans contributors: a kind of important Easter egg. Hence I would personally prioritize timeline so that every now and then a new monument appears in the map.

[greenling]

All Monuments need a Timeline.

[VS]

That's actually a far better idea than I could come up with!

I would make some always available, then start introducing the rest in in 1850. There are currently 15 of them...

greenling: why?

[Fabio]

I would make some always available, then start introducing the rest in in 1850. There are currently 15 of them...

Seems a good plan!

If we make, say, 5 always available, we could phase in the other 10 one each 12 years introducing the last one in 1970.

We should think also of some new monument: Prissi (I'm thinking of him riding the nuke/liquid nitrogen container as in his avatar, it would look so great!), Dwachs, Kieron, Timothy, yourself, Zeno, Igor, vilvoh just to cover the main contributors to the game engine, pakset, and forum.
With more monuments we could think of introducing one every 10 years or  one the sixth year between two regular 12 year releases.

[Sarlock]

We need to make a Fabio one too.   

[VS]

Yes! Fabio also also forgot hellmade (years of hosting), knightly (programming), Combuijs (maps), FrankP (everything), tttron (years of svn and mysterious refactoring)... I am sure there are even more.

Prissi already stated he wants to get a monument only when he's gone, and I will second that. Maybe we should make this a topic? "Do you want a monument or not?"

[ny911]

I used nightly r6261 and pak128 2.2.0 r1135

and fount the roundabout (see picture)

It flickers/changes the winter/summer season with every screen frame

[VS]

**** - and I wrote the dat myself, so I can only cuss at myself again Thanks for the report, fixed in r1136.

[Raiser]

Hi, back from Holiday in Nantes i made a second roundabout for country roads without ground. The next one will be a big 3x3 or 5x5 tile roundabout for two way cityboulevards.

Regards

Raiser




In game screenshot:

[mEGa]

Hi, back from Holiday in Nantes i made a second roundabout for country roads without ground.

No really ? I live near Nantes in France... And my job is in Nantes... So we would have been able to pass each other
Roundabout of Nantes are famous (double...) ! They had to inspire you I mean.


So, I like your new creation. just fine.

[greenling]

Super those photos.

[Markohs]

Those roundabouts look dangerous.

[gwalch]

Dangerous ? Not so much... but really boring !

[Raiser]

No really ? I live near Nantes in France... And my job is in Nantes... So we would have been able to pass each other
Roundabout of Nantes are famous (double...) ! They had to inspire you I mean.

This is crazy - I thought something about that before. I saw many roundabouts like the second one there, and a lot of new buildings/infrastructure too. wherefrom comes the money? In germany this is not possible...

[Raiser]

In between i made a Guide Piles Way-Object, but i can not see anything in the game - what did i do wrong? Icon & Cursor appears, also building the way works!?! i tried out different ways to write the DAT file - however, everytime the same problem. The PNG is withot Alpha-Channel. As basis-template to place the Guide Piles i used road_050.

Would somebody help with the DAT-File?

Regards

Raiser

[Vladki]

1. remove the summer/winter images. Use just one for all.
2. Use FrontImage and BackImage instead of Image.
3. (Optional) do not use spaces in file and object names.

[Raiser]

1. remove the summer/winter images. Use just one for all.
2. Use FrontImage and BackImage instead of Image.
3. (Optional) do not use spaces in file and object names.

Many thanks Vladki - Now it works - i don't know why, but using underlines in file and object names resolves the problem!?! currently i'm able to adjust the fine-position of the guide piles.

[Vladki]

Many thanks Vladki - Now it works - i don't know why, but using underlines in file and object names resolves the problem!?!

No, it does not solve your problem, but it helps to avoid other problems in the future. Think of some automated scripts, that use space as input separator and many scripts fail when there are spaces in file names. The same applies for letters with diacritics or other scripts (Cyrillic, Greek, etc.) Different systems use different encodings (utf-8 is not yet everywhere) and something that works perfectly on your computer might be completely unusable somewhere else. It is always safer to name the objects in English (with underlines) and put localized translations to xx.tab files.

[Raiser]

Ok, i will consider this aspect in future What do you think about Guide Piles? I will also add guardrails and alley with threes.

[Vladki]

I like them, but I would prefer them to be built automatically with the road. Similarly to new highways from fabio which have some guards already included.

[greenling]

Hello Raiser
Your Plies on the Photo look very good out.
I like those Plies.

[mEGa]

Ok, i will consider this aspect in future What do you think about Guide Piles? I will also add guardrails and alley with threes.

I think it's nice idea. Specially alley with threes.

[Raiser]

Hi, Guide_Piles are completed - here they are:



If you discover a bug or if you want to add some notations let me know - i will modify the piles.

Have Fun!

Raiser

[greenling]

Raiser that it a Nice Addon.

[VS]

The new roundabout is really beautiful. It can not make the road one-way all by itself, unfortunately :( Also, if drive on left is activated, these signs still point to the right. Because of these two problems, I think it would be better to have it only as addon. The graphic is still gorgeous anyway!

Guide poles are really nice eye candy. I would love to have them as part of the set!

[Raiser]

The new roundabout is really beautiful. It can not make the road one-way all by itself, unfortunately :( Also, if drive on left is activated, these signs still point to the right. Because of these two problems, I think it would be better to have it only as addon. The graphic is still gorgeous anyway!

Hi, thank you. It's no problem to remove the signs if this would help.

Guide poles are really nice eye candy. I would love to have them as part of the set!

Everything i paint for pak128 is without copyright and free to use in pak128 if favored! Also everybody is welcome to modify or use my paintings for other things.I would gladly upload the sources, gimp files, etc. if desired. So, it would be a pleasure for me when some of my paintings where incorporated to pak128, if you like my stuff.

Regards

Raiser

[Raiser]

Hi, One simple question:

Is it possible to make "way-objects" with winter-grafik? Or is this only on roads possible? I tried to make an Alley as a way-object with winter-grafik but it does not work? I found nothing in the wiki about this aspect. If this works not, i have to compile the Alley as a road...

[paco_m]

How many accidents are there per day? 100? xD

[Raiser]

It can not make the road one-way all by itself, unfortunately :( Also, if drive on left is activated, these signs still point to the right. Because of these two problems, I think it would be better to have it only as addon.

Hi, i removed the direction-signs from the roundabout, so it can be used for left-/righthand  traffic. Also i removed the Guide-Piles because they are currently as way-object available.

[greenling]

Who Raiser
The new Roundabout looks very good out!

[Raiser]

Safety Barrier!

I did some rework on Fabios Safety-Barriers from road_130 and compiled them as a way-object for independent using on other roads. To avoid problems with bridges or other roads, i placed them a little further inside. Please Post here if you find a bug or if you have other demands.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[greenling]

Raiser
The new photo are cool.
You have make a good job.

[Raiser]

Alley!

After eternal trial and error the Alley is (may) completed. I had to juggle with front/backimage to delete some bugs which cause that the trees are not correctly displayed. It wasn't possible to delete all bugs, but i think i found a good agreement. The Road is classified up to 100kmh speed limit, just like typical country roads in my country. Please Post here if you find a bug or if you have other demands.



The source files are too big - so they are hosted outside the forum:

         

Download (7zip with sources):

http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/Alley.7z

Have Fun!

[greenling]

Hello Raiser
The photo looks good out!
Do you live in germany in the city with the Stuttgart?

[Sarlock]

Very nice, Raiser!  Those look great!

[gauthier]

It just lacks pavement.
Cities will be able to build such aesthetics by themselves ?

[Raiser]

It just lacks pavement.
Cities will be able to build such aesthetics by themselves ?

Hi Gauthier, the Ally is just intended to be used like a 'Country Road' between cities. I experimented with some grass & scrub besides the street, but that looked a bit 'too much'. IMHO a 'City-Boulevard' would need sidewalks too. The Screenshot should only show the possibilities of the Alley.

[Raiser]

Hello Raiser
The photo looks good out!
Do you live in germany in the city with the Stuttgart?

Thank You Greenling! - The Appearance of 'Stuttgart' in my Screenshots happend only by chance I'm living in Hannover, Lower Saxony.

[Isaac_Clarke]

Raiser, your alley addon seems very interesting! I'd like to download but it didn't work, mediafire say the file is damaged or encrypted :(

[Yona-TYT]

Raiser, your alley addon seems very interesting! I'd like to download but it didn't work, mediafire say the file is damaged or encrypted :(

the same problem

[greenling]

Hello Raiser
can you look after your link http://www.mediafire.com/?y4n5omsrhc65g6n
mediafire said it gives damage in the zip.

[Raiser]

Hi, this is very annoying :(

MediaFire does not support unlimited downloads for encrypted archives if you don't have a premium account.

Does someone know a better possibility to share files online advertising free, or is it possible to upload bigger files than 64kb in this forum?

[IgorEliezer]

Does someone know a better possibility to share files online advertising free, or is it possible to upload bigger files than 64kb in this forum?

The forum attachment system is meant for small files that we use for development stuff, such as pakfiles and diffs for source code.

Use this: http://files.simutrans-germany.com/, don't forget to set zero in "days valid" field or the file will be deleted.

[Raiser]

Yes! Thank you for your quick Reply.

New url:

Alley (7zip with sources):

http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/Alley.7z

[mEGa]

Very nice I tested this day. Good idea !

[Isaac Eiland-Hall]

It is certainly possible for me to create ftp accounts someplace - then a link could be given for a direct download... the server can handle tons and tons and tons of downloads

[mEGa]

"Temp" repository to submit project pak under construction will be a good thing, I mean. So members will be also delete old uploaded files when pak ready for inclusion to official pak.
I suggest sftp and not ftp (better for security reason, you certainly know that).

[Isaac Eiland-Hall]

sftp requires a linux user, i.e. creating a subdomain for each user, which also requires bothering Timothy.

For something like this, my opinion is it's okay for FTP; otherwise I tend to agree.

For a regular Simutrans user - I think the offer of space on the server is still open - and especially so since the community is pretty much paying for the server.