Author Topic: Balancing of costs and other parameters  (Read 4319 times)

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Offline Václav

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Balancing of costs and other parameters
« on: August 26, 2012, 07:50:34 AM »
As An_dz said in topic Airports - Runways, Taxiways, Planes and Buildings, this pakset needs balancing. And I agree.

But in case of objects that are already present in pak96.comic it is something where I can only suggest new parameters.


Locomotives 96c_001 (Brose-Star) and 96c_005 (Brose-Star 110-68). Both locomotives have to be used in double traction to they could pull train of total length of 5 tiles - by full speed (100 km/h and 110 km/h).

Running cost of these two locomotives are too high - 10.00 for 96c_001 and 15.00 for 96c_005.

With post cars (but they have capacity 120) such trains can earn sufficient money to be in black numbers - but with passenger cars (with capacity about 61) such trains cannot earn sufficient money to be in black numbers.

So these two locomotives need half running cost. I think that such running cost could be right - not low - but also not too high.


New parameters need NoSe 3 Lightning SZ-404 and NoSe 4 Arrow SZ-406.

Such trains often have powered all cars of unit. But currently powered is only one car and its power is too low to it could go by the highest speed when it should be long 5 tiles - or more.


It is all for this time.

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

Offline reytm2

Re: Balancing of costs and other parameters
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2012, 03:09:51 PM »
For these trains, we have to look for alternatives, they are in the official pack and do not have the source code for these elements. Maybe we need to replace the engines for free versions and post them on the new release of the expansion pack. This would be naturally until the officer in charge of the pack returns to the project.

so others are already working on the issue of aircraft and airports to give you better balance.

Mi blog, reytm2.blogspot.es - others, sms a cuba

Offline An_dz

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Re: Balancing of costs and other parameters
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2012, 03:36:29 PM »
It's good to post it here, so when sojo see it he can do something, unfortunately sojo seems unavailable at this time.

Offline Václav

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Re: Balancing of costs and other parameters
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2012, 06:40:14 PM »
So why don't balance those vehicles where it is possible? And I will go on creation of Arboria, Helios, Strato and ... that the fourth train (name and its colour is not known yet). About their development is in topic Next vehicles.

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

Offline Václav

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Re: Balancing of costs and other parameters
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2012, 11:46:20 AM »
I prepared playable files from SVN - and what I found? Really high running costs for planes.

110 per kilometer for passenger version of DC-10-30 causes very terrible losing of money. And 10 per kilometer for post version of Beechcraft-King-air-200 is the same.

Freight version of DC-10-30 has running cost 185 per kilometer - but they are capable to earn money. Not much (excepting Medikamente) but yes.

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

Offline An_dz

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Re: Balancing of costs and other parameters
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2012, 04:57:21 PM »
I remember, when balancing, that you need to fully load the planes and distances bigger than 400 tiles for big planes and 300 for small ones gives more money.

Big freight planes are balanced to carry the most valuable freights, while the smaller ones are more balanced for cheaper cargo.

I'll check it better when finishing the latest files.

Offline Václav

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Re: Balancing of costs and other parameters
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2012, 05:48:26 PM »
I remember, when balancing, that you need to fully load the planes and distances bigger than 400 tiles for big planes and 300 for small ones gives more money.
Full loading. It is truth that for passenger and post I don't use this.

400 tiles. On map of size 1280*1115 it means about one third. I don't want to planes would give money on short tracks - but 400 tiles seems to be too long distance.

Quote
Big freight planes are balanced to carry the most valuable freights, while the smaller ones are more balanced for cheaper cargo.
Yes. It seems. DC-10-30 fully loaded with medicaments earns much money. The same plane fully loaded with furniture few money - but still it earns money. But DC-10-30 fully loaded with vegetables does not earn money (at least not much to they would be in black numbers).

And of course, I think that vegetables should be more valuable than furniture. But it is matter of evolution of pak96.comic.


I set full loading - but still, it is not earning such money that it could be profitable.

Starting cash was -9 964 xxx
End cash (after getting money) was -10 011 496

And plane moved over more than half of map - that has size 1280*1115.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2012, 07:32:34 AM by VaclavMacurek »

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

Offline An_dz

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Re: Balancing of costs and other parameters
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2012, 06:55:16 PM »
Distances doesn't matter much, but next balancing will be for smaller distances and with faster pay back. Small planes will still require full load, but bigger planes will require at least 85% load.

I think that planes are an expensive transport and should fly almost fully loaded. If you don't want you go with other transport types, like maglev.

I remember that planes should pay their cost in ~250 travels. I'll reduce to ~150 too.

Yes. It seems. DC-10-30 fully loaded with medicaments earns much money. The same plane fully loaded with furniture few money - but still it earns money. But DC-10-30 fully loaded with vegetables does not earn money (at least not much to they would be in black numbers).
If they were profitable with any cargo they will be too much profitable with valuable cargo. I have chosen this way then:
Big planes->Profitable only with more valuable cargo.
Small planes->Profitable with any cargo, but small power leads to extremely slow flight speed with valuable cargo, since they are heavier.
Plus, planes are balanced to force airports be big network hubs.

I set full loading - but still, it is not earning such money that it could be profitable.

Starting cash was -9 964 xxx
End cash (after getting money) was -10 011 496
You won one million and it's too few? Or numbers are negative and you lost one million?

Offline Václav

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Re: Balancing of costs and other parameters
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2012, 09:32:01 PM »
Or numbers are negative and you lost one million?
Numbers are negative. Else I would not write minus sign in the front of both numbers. But I thought that writing of minus would be better than writing -.


And of course, what do you say on balancing of all three electrifications and Urbanica I used?
« Last Edit: December 25, 2012, 09:52:44 PM by VaclavMacurek »

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

Offline An_dz

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Re: Balancing of costs and other parameters
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2012, 01:55:07 AM »
I thought it was just to separate the number with the sentence.

I don't know I haven't looked at them yet.

Offline Václav

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Productivity of powerplants
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2013, 03:44:38 PM »
Hard to say what is better way for balancing of productivity for powerplants (and electricity consumption in factories):
1. if to try keep real numbers (that would lead to much bigger electricity consumption and demand of powerplants1)
2. or set electricity consumption in factories a bit freely (with less or more symbolic numbers).

But still, mostly one nuclear powerplant can replace two or three coal powerplants. So, I think that productivity of nuclear powerplant 100 is a bit strange (low) number.

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

Offline An_dz

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Re: Balancing of costs and other parameters
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2013, 09:35:21 PM »
The productivity parameter is not the same in-game for powerplant.

Just check, while the Coal Mine is 800/day, Nuclear is around 1100/day.

Offline Václav

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Re: Balancing of costs and other parameters
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2013, 10:42:37 PM »
Thanks for this minor explanation - but ... in this case I would like to know something more about that.

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

Offline An_dz

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Re: Balancing of costs and other parameters
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2013, 10:47:03 PM »
Too bad, I have no idea why this happens. :P

Offline Václav

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Re: Balancing of costs and other parameters
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2013, 10:38:17 AM »
... but else (some) my vehicles may need rebalance too.

Matrix for balancing of trams:
capacity of passengers: length*4
capacity of post: length*2
running costs: speed*1*length/8
power: speed*3
weight: length*1,75

Matrix for balancing of metro:
capacity of passengers: length*4
capacity of post: length*2
running costs: speed*1*length/8
power: speed*6
weight: length*3,5

Matrix for balancing of no-powered train cars:
capacity of passengers: length*5
capacity of post: length*3
running cost: speed*0,5*length/8
weight: 3,5

Matrix for balancing of locomotives:
running cost: speed*5*length/8
weight: length*6,5
power: speed*20

price is random - not tied to technical data of vehicle
weight and power are based on real numbers - but simplified

and that you may see different capacity from matrix is based that it is only matrix - but for counting of capacities were taken some other factors - presence of driver cabin or so.

as I found on Urbanica and Amphibia (see topic Next vehicles to know what they are), all may have problems with making profit on lines that are not well busy ... but generally they are capable to make profit easy.

Reason for very low running cost of the previous versions of Amphibia and Varieta was attempt to have vehicle that would fully replace tw_96c_032 and its trailer cars


but after finishing of Galactica and other planned trains (Atlantica and Pacifica) I will try to prepare some slow diesel-powered trains like it (tw_96c_032).
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 10:07:42 PM by Václav »

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

Offline Václav

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Re: Balancing of costs and other parameters
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2013, 08:54:38 PM »
I changed powers matrix for locomotives. So Longena, Galactica and Atlantica got a bit higher power. So, please, download their new version in topic Next vehicles - together with new train Pacifica.

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

Offline An_dz

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Re: Balancing of costs and other parameters
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2013, 09:19:15 PM »
Thanks, but can you please take a look in their alignment? I was trying to align them better, but was failing.

Offline Václav

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Re: Balancing of costs and other parameters
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2013, 04:38:00 AM »
In currently available version they (all, trains and trams) have already been aligned right.

Only one thing that would (should?) be improved, is that they could be shifted to they would not be in else tile.
If this is what you think, I will try to do that.

Offsets would help to solve this. In case of trams and metro trains, there offsets have already been used. But they need to rewrite to cars with length 12 - from cars with length 8. Numbers are right.


Rewriting of offsets from cars with length 8 to cars with length 12 has not effect. There it is like if no offsets would be used. And I don't know why.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 05:13:42 AM by Václav »

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

Offline An_dz

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Re: Balancing of costs and other parameters
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2013, 04:12:00 PM »
Yes, like Pontica where wagons have a big gap between the engine car.
But I think there's no solution. pak128.Britain and others have same bug.

Offline Václav

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Re: Balancing of costs and other parameters
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2013, 05:18:41 PM »
As I said, I solved it partly with using of offsets. Corrected versions of trams are available in that topic too, I hope.

It seems like there is bug in game engine, in part where position of cars is computed. But hard to find it.
As my logic (based on observation of problem) says, there is such problem:

This is as it should be
Code: [Select]
12345678ABCD
||||||||||||
------------
       
but it is
Code: [Select]
    12345678ABCD
||||||||||||
------------

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní