Author Topic: pakIlu project  (Read 12434 times)

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Offline Iluvalar

pakIlu project
« on: October 24, 2012, 08:23:10 PM »
Hello everybody,


I open this topic a bit in advance. I did nothing so far. My plan is to intensly mod a pack in order to achieve a better gameplay experience than the actual paks.


The aim is to make the player have more strategies than the straight line only. I'd like to make them to consider seriously to make detour to rejoin faster roads and use that faster road as a backbone for many different route. I believe it's possible using speed bonus and road maintenance.


I'd also like to make many competitive different trucks. Transporting more or less, moving faster or slower that would fit different strategies and budgets. In other words, it the same game having the player use many different truck for the same kind of good at the same time. Not only one choice that fit all.


Hopefully if I can do more : more use of brigdes and tunnels, more mid-way depot, transportation using more than one vehicule type (one part in truck + one part in train).

Offline Markohs

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Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2012, 12:01:12 AM »
Good luck in your project. :)

Offline sdog

Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2012, 12:09:17 AM »
already decided what pak-set you are basing it on?

Offline Iluvalar

Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2012, 03:01:19 PM »
Because it gonna be lighter to share, and because it's probably the more well documented/complete/simple pak possible. It will be the pak64 for now. But since it's only stat changes, I dont reject the idea to export it to 128 if players like it.

I'm starting to have a basic result using roads only. I wonder where I could share the pak with you ? I will need tester soon enough.

Offline IgorEliezer

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Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2012, 04:27:24 PM »
Looking forward to seeing some screenshots of in-progress work. :)

Offline Iluvalar

Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2012, 05:46:49 PM »
Sure.


here you see 5 different trucks, 3 different roads and all the lines produce roughly the same $1000 / month.


 :D

Offline IgorEliezer

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Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2012, 05:51:32 PM »
The screenshot is so small, I can't see it. You could upload larger images here: http://imgur.com/

Offline Iluvalar

Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2012, 07:30:18 PM »
http://imgur.com/vUrSI

oh, that's the trick...  XD

Offline Iluvalar

Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2012, 10:50:54 PM »
Ok, today I made a PHP script that make the massive math job for me.  I made a great step forward and I' m now in the early play test phase and it is looking great.

Offline Iluvalar

Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2012, 03:53:06 PM »


Ok, I'm in late alpha test, soon I'll need testers please  ;) .


Here you see an ingame test that depict well the idea behind the pak.


Here you see that I use many different ways at the same time. You also see that in some circumstances, I have my trucks making detours in order to use more of those expensives roads. Instead of all going straight with the fastest appropriate road.  I left my finances screen open, so you can also clearly see that the result is finely balanced.


Please comment !

Offline Iluvalar

Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2012, 04:36:50 AM »
For the last 2 days or so, I'm struggling with one very annoying problem. I tough I could just share my ideas with you for fun :) . Here it is :


I really dont like loading the roads full of cars. It just doenst seem satisfactory. Too much of them don't fullfill any purpose in the game. Just look unrealistic and slow down my FPS...


Lower capacity vehicles for same speed are bound to be balanced cheaper or else they wouldn't be used at all. But then, the player would systematically use them until the roads are completly filled with a big trafic jam. This mean that providing we give them a choice of vehicle, they will trafic jam everything.

If anybody have ideas about how to avoid that, I'm taking it. I'm affraid I might be forced to limit a speed to a single truck capacity :( .


Offline Fabio

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Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2012, 09:38:36 AM »
Try to lower production/consumption and raise the fares...

Offline Iluvalar

Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2012, 08:56:55 PM »
oh... I did that. That's not the problem. Sorry I'm unclear.


The question is more about (exemple) two identical bulk truck. One with 7t capacity and the other with 18t capacity with the same speed. How can I tune the balance so both fulfill a purpose in the game ? If the road is not full, the cheapest to run (per t basis) will be chosen systematicaly.




Offline Fabio

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Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2012, 10:49:13 PM »
They might have exactly the same per t running cost plus k (a small fixed overhead for every truck), so that if you can fill the bigger one you use it, if you can't fill it you choose the smaller one.

Offline Iluvalar

Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2012, 01:27:19 AM »
You mean, to reduce the production speed so much that I might not be able to fill a single 18t truck in a whole month ?

Offline sdog

Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2012, 04:10:45 AM »
Well, when they don't serve a purpose, why do you have it in the pak at all?

Offline Sarlock

Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2012, 05:47:42 AM »
It's generally designed so that each successive increase in capacity makes the previous vehicle for that cargo obsolete.  If you have two vehicles available, a 7t and 18t version, for the same cargo and both have the same road speed, then naturally the player will choose the 18t version unless the operating costs are 18/7ths more expensive to offset the capacity advantage.

Even then, the 18t vehicle may still be preferred because it jams up stations and roads less since you'd have less than half as many vehicles to haul the same amount of cargo.
Current projects: Pak128 Trees, blender graphics

Offline Iluvalar

Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2012, 02:36:09 PM »
Well, when they don't serve a purpose, why do you have it in the pak at all?
A game is a serie of choices in a mixed strategy nash equilibrium. At least in my mind. Deleting possibilities is deleting a facet of the game. I will consider that seriously before taking a decision like that :) .

Even then, the 18t vehicle may still be preferred because it jams up stations and roads less since you'd have less than half as many vehicles to haul the same amount of cargo.
I just told that I want to avoid jaming every roads. So the 18t vehicle wouldn't be used at all.


I want to thank everybody to join my little brainstorming. Very appreciated.

Offline Sarlock

Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2012, 03:34:25 PM »
If we want to compare to real life examples, the 7t and 18t truck both have specific uses in transportation.  The 7t truck is likely more nimble and able to reach harder to access areas (alleyways, etc) and would be cheaper to operate due to lower weight/fuel consumption/maintenance.  A 7t truck will also find its niche for delivering bulkier, lightweight goods where weight isn't a concern.  The 7t truck may also have a lower class licence requirement for its driver = cheaper wages.  The 18t truck would find its niche in transporting heavier goods longer distances with less deliveries.

The only way you can model that in Simutrans is to increase operational costs compared to the 7t model.  The other real life advantages don't translate to the simulation, so your choice matrix becomes a very simple one = operating cost vs operating cost, other things being equal (same cargo, sam max speed).
Current projects: Pak128 Trees, blender graphics

Offline Iluvalar

Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2012, 10:02:24 PM »
I think I got an idea that I will test now :

I'll fix an ideal cargo size. From witch the vehicle cost will be the lowest. And from there, the more away from this cargo size the vehicle will be, the more expensive it will be. I'll take into account the loss of asset of those truck into the operating cost that will therefore be lower.

The expensiveness of those trucks will prevent them to be used massively. As the players will prefer to invest in other project instead. However, on long term those will lose their value and therefore will cost less to operate than the cheaper truck. So it might become an interesting option later in the game when the easy money lines will be built.

Hmmm, does that sound clear ?

Offline Iluvalar

Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2012, 07:01:33 PM »
https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B9FqMMo3L6W_ODg5YjZhNDEtZmM1My00ZWI4LThiMzMtNmEyYmYwNzliZGNk/edit

Today I launch my first beta. Could I open a new topic once It will become a stable version ?

Here is things you must know about this pak :

it's meant to start with timeline in 1930. I felt confortable with 32 factories in a 256x256 map. If you like trains, you might not have enught of the starting 500.000¢ . If you'd like to start with a complex rail network, increase that. But personnaly I like to start with very low money and build all from begining.

First of all, it's an hardcore pak. It's not meant to be that much easy. The max you should be able to produce is 10% of your investment per month. But you will most likely never do that and get only 2-3% . Please, if you do more tell me how you made it. the challenge is more about making the highest profit, than to make profit at all. I chose to leave a constant benefit possible so you can keep playing and investing in your network over time.

The base speed is 50Km/h for tracks and 25Km/h for roads. For one line on one road. For each slice of 25Km/h higher, the traffic need to double in order to make money..

The maintenance cost for the roads is very high and do matter a lot ! This pak is meant to avoid straight roads to be the optimal path. And the more you will upgrade your roads, the more it will become attractive to run more vehicles on it. Therefore making more detours to take advantage of them. The more you will build, the more opportunities for bigger project should appear by themself.

Asset loss worth between 10% to 90% of the total vehicles operating cost ! Your lines might not make as much money as it seem. Also, the vehicles are very expensive. About 50% of the construction cost at start. Sometime a lot more.

I made bridges, tunnels and stops nearly free to maintain. So you can make complex junctions if you feel it's the way to go.

The passenger and mail boost in factories might be very valuable. Even if it look small a little 2-3% in boost above all the expensive maintenance and all could become a neat 25-30% benefit in your pocket.

Finaly : Be warned that factory that produce a good of the same category of one of it supplied good. This factory will only produce 50% in return. This is meant to avoid lines that are too much valuable if you reuse the same vehicles back and forth. For exemple Oil rig=>raffinerie=> Gas station. This mean that if you need to build a new road to link a gas station that is opposite to the oil rig, this line will cost you more money that what it gives.

What is lost for gameplay reasons
I needed to know how much a line would give per Km. This mean that all in all, all factory produce the same value of good no matter what. Same for the speed bonus that is now at 100% per 25 Km/h. I needed that to be constant.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 07:10:45 PM by Iluvalar »

Offline greenling

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Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2012, 08:53:59 PM »
Sorry i can your pakset not downloading.
it will that i me regist.
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Offline colonyan

Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2012, 10:50:48 PM »
Hi. I just read through the thread. If I understood well, you want to players to choose well which road to become main road by setting road maintenance cost quite high.

Speaking of those roads types, main difference will be maintenance cost and its max speed? (Putting aside onetime construction cost)

I also assume vehicle running cosst will be lower to allow vehicles to make larger detour to use main road.

ADD: I remember Simutrans Standard did not take in account of the way's speed into speedbonus. Is it now? If not player can just lay low maintenance road anywhere unless construction costs is prohibitibly expensive.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 11:25:15 PM by colonyan »

Offline Iluvalar

Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2012, 01:19:52 AM »
Sorry i can your pakset not downloading.
it will that i me regist.
Sorry, google doc change so fast...

can you click file->download from this link ?
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B9FqMMo3L6W_Ul9ubW0xRVVmNGM

Offline TurfIt

Re: pakIlu project - beta
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2012, 05:21:02 PM »
Interesting idea, very different balance approach from the existing paks. A few comments from a couple hours playing with freight (haven't got to pax yet).

Archive appears to have stray files?
Code: [Select]
.goutputstream-E7SCNW
.goutputstream-PFSANW
.Outside.pak
0.0.pak
config\simuconf.tab~
config\speedbonus.tab~


There's some strange intercity road bridges being built. See attached. I've never seen that before - intentional (how?) or some bug being triggered...
I note the strange ones are always 13 tiles long - one tile longer than allowed.


The base speed is 50Km/h for tracks and 25Km/h for roads.
Do you mean the speedbonus? It's defined as a 20-30km/h ramp for all waytypes. (25-30 in the .tab~ file)
I note trains appear ~2x more profitable than trucks...


Asset loss worth between 10% to 90% of the total vehicles operating cost ! Your lines might not make as much money as it seem. Also, the vehicles are very expensive. About 50% of the construction cost at start. Sometime a lot more.
This is truly killer. Did you set this to try a simulate a fixed monthly cost? I'd rather we finish that patch instead of using depreciation like this. Usually depreciation is relatively minor, so the fact that the numbers aren't displayed anywhere in game is but a minor annoyance. With this pak, depreciation is the determining factor; And you have to guess if your net worth is high enough to afford another vehicle when you can't even see how much the vehicle will truly cost!

There's also stubs in the code for loading_time and axle_loading. Finishing them off might help you with the goal of having choice between different but similar vehicles - more factors to differentiate them.


I made bridges, tunnels and stops nearly free to maintain. So you can make complex junctions if you feel it's the way to go.
Bridges and tunnels appear to have 'normal' maintenance?
Stops are cheap. Combined with 'free' convoy power (see below), results in it being best to use extra long train stations. Ways are so expensive, it's best to use a single long train with no passing sidings.

Tractor and loco costs vary only with speed. Two locos with the same speed but different power cost the same, hence it's always best to pick the more powerful and pull a longer train. Also the variation with speed is small enough that picking the most powerful overall is viable.


What is lost for gameplay reasons
I needed to know how much a line would give per Km. This mean that all in all, all factory produce the same value of good no matter what.
Makes factories even more dull with no variation between them. Surely there's room for some high producers...

Implementation wise, a factory with factor 10 and productivity 100 produces the same as one with factor 100 and productivity 10. The later is easier to deal with in game for players IMHO. i.e. Normalize output factors to 100.


Same for the speed bonus that is now at 100% per 25 Km/h. I needed that to be constant.
20 km/h in speedbonus.tab ?


ADD: I remember Simutrans Standard did not take in account of the way's speed into speedbonus. Is it now?
For some time.

Offline Iluvalar

Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2012, 03:31:22 AM »
There's some strange intercity road bridges being built. See attached. I've never seen that before - intentional (how?) or some bug being triggered...
I note the strange ones are always 13 tiles long - one tile longer than allowed.
I don't know why it happen like that. For now it's not a priority for me.

Do you mean the speedbonus? It's defined as a 20-30km/h ramp for all waytypes. (25-30 in the .tab~ file)
I note trains appear ~2x more profitable than trucks...
a dirt road (25 km/h) will suit perfectly a single straight line between 2 factories. But if you try to upgrade it to gravel (40 km/h), you'll find that the maintenance is higher than the gain in speed bonus. To use a gravel road, you need 2 lines to join together. (double the lines each 25 Km/h). I hope it's more clear.

Tracks give more money once installed, but they are more expensive and a bit more tricky to use at 100% efficiency. Also, I felt that trains are loved in here.

This is truly killer. Did you set this to try a simulate a fixed monthly cost? I'd rather we finish that patch instead of using depreciation like this. Usually depreciation is relatively minor, so the fact that the numbers aren't displayed anywhere in game is but a minor annoyance. With this pak, depreciation is the determining factor; And you have to guess if your net worth is high enough to afford another vehicle when you can't even see how much the vehicle will truly cost!
Prissi told me you wont bankrupt when you end a month over 0¢ in the next version. For now you have to guess what 0.3% of your asset worth.

Bridges and tunnels appear to have 'normal' maintenance?
Stops are cheap. Combined with 'free' convoy power (see below), results in it being best to use extra long train stations. Ways are so expensive, it's best to use a single long train with no passing sidings.
Yes I really meant maintenance is 10% higher than normal way for the same speed. It's mostly 'free' in comparison to normal way. You should be able to use them a lot.
You can use extra long train, only when extra long train are needed. Also, you can't use a single train when you try to transfert different goods on it.

Tractor and loco costs vary only with speed. Two locos with the same speed but different power cost the same, hence it's always best to pick the more powerful and pull a longer train. Also the variation with speed is small enough that picking the most powerful overall is viable.
I'll implement the power in the next version. thx to remember me. Make sure you take the devaluation in account before you tell that the fastest loco is the best choice ;) .

Makes factories even more dull with no variation between them. Surely there's room for some high producers...
Noted.

Implementation wise, a factory with factor 10 and productivity 100 produces the same as one with factor 100 and productivity 10. The later is easier to deal with in game for players IMHO. i.e. Normalize output factors to 100.
Like this, it's easier to compare the production and consumption of the factories between each others. Some factories produce many goods, so it would be at most only 100% for 1 of the production anyway.

20 km/h in speedbonus.tab ?
True, actually the slowest road gain some speed bonus as well. I needed that little gap. This is what allows detour I think.

Offline TurfIt

Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2012, 05:06:46 AM »
But you will most likely never do that and get only 2-3% . Please, if you do more tell me how you made it.
Boats! I'm guessing you've not balanced them...? What about aircraft?


Like this, it's easier to compare the production and consumption of the factories between each others. Some factories produce many goods, so it would be at most only 100% for 1 of the production anyway.
Harder to see what the actual monthly production is though... Calculator in me head not working these days!
Yes, true for only one, but better than none.



The road trailers don't seem balanced with the trucks that pull them. e.g. Log truck costs $161864 to haul 16t at 60km/h. Its trailer costs $383107 for 20t. The trailers listed at 80km/h - perhaps you used that figure instead of the 60km/h it actually goes? Nothing else can pull it.
The 25km/h horse log trailer is also more expensive (depreciation wise) than the truck. $388683 to haul 8t at 25km/h. The super cheap $/km doesn't make up for it. Better to use the truck on a 25km/h road.



Road tolls also seem excessive. Paying $22700/month in tolls to use a 25km/h public dirt road when I could build my own for $400000 and $8300/month maintenance.

Offline Iluvalar

Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2012, 06:11:23 AM »
Boats! I'm guessing you've not balanced them...? What about aircraft?
Are you 100% sure ? Or it is a guess or a feeling ?

Harder to see what the actual monthly production is though... Calculator in me head not working these days!
Yes, true for only one, but better than none.
But you dont need calculation at all if both factories follow the same rules.

The road trailers don't seem balanced with the trucks that pull them. e.g. Log truck costs $161864 to haul 16t at 60km/h. Its trailer costs $383107 for 20t. The trailers listed at 80km/h - perhaps you used that figure instead of the 60km/h it actually goes? Nothing else can pull it.
The 25km/h horse log trailer is also more expensive (depreciation wise) than the truck. $388683 to haul 8t at 25km/h. The super cheap $/km doesn't make up for it. Better to use the truck on a 25km/h road.
I'm using the actual pak64 stats for speed and capacity. All the changes are made by an automatic script. It doesnt know if the trailer have no correct truck to pull it.

Road tolls also seem excessive. Paying $22700/month in tolls to use a 25km/h public dirt road when I could build my own for $400000 and $8300/month maintenance.
They are set with multiplayer in mind. If you have more than one line deserved by the same road, you'd better make your own. But there is situation where it's a nice move to use pre-built roads. If you try to "flood" a road in a traffic jam, the owner will be happy with that.

Offline TurfIt

Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2012, 07:21:44 AM »
Are you 100% sure ? Or it is a guess or a feeling ?
I first tried a couple games with trucks. Ended up with virtually flat net worth graphs, very long payback times.
Then I tried trains. Ended up slightly better but the starting cash is barely enough to get going as mentioned.
Then boats. See attached. 9 months to get back to the 500000 starting capital.
But then I found log trucks. 5 months!


It doesnt know if the trailer have no correct truck to pull it.
Unfortunately that leads to the trailer being useless in this case...


They are set with multiplayer in mind. If you have more than one line deserved by the same road, you'd better make your own. But there is situation where it's a nice move to use pre-built roads. If you try to "flood" a road in a traffic jam, the owner will be happy with that.
Fair enough. Just need to set many waypoints to make sure my trucks stay off foreign roads. I only had the road 'flooded' to ~1/3 capacity.

Offline Iluvalar

Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2012, 07:58:48 PM »
Hmm you made me realize I expect the price to be spread between the road and the vehicle. Since there is no road in boats, they get advantaged at little. Neverthes less, that boat graph look pretty much 10% gain per month to me... you paid 250'000 get 25'000 per month.

The logtrucks graph is indeed a bit higher, but I suspect you have been lucky and had a map where the wholesaler is on the side of the forest. Straight in line with it. You got  a lucky start I guess.


Thank you very much for all those feedbacks. Very useful..

Offline Iluvalar

Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2012, 10:12:34 PM »
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9FqMMo3L6W_ckJ5b3BRbTJBV1k

Beta 2 is out ! Please help me with testing :)

Changes :
*Base production is now between 900 and 1100. Makes the % multiplication easy to do with roughly 1000 as a base.
*Plastic/pellets are based on 100% production. At least that's 1 good at 100% :)
*Cost/benefit for ships and planes halved. Since you dont pay roads, it make it fair.
*Price for roads and vehicle therefore changed but should keep the same overall "feel"
*Power taken into account in price calculation. That could lead to more than 10% profit in rare case.
*Maintenance cost added to way initial cost. So you dont avoid the maintenance of a month by building it the 1st its integrated into the deal ;) .

*Factories can hold up to 8 month of production
*Roads cost reduced by 10:4 factor
*Vehicle cost increased by 14:10 factor
These 3 changes allow 2 new options : Overcharge the roads to 150% and empty the factory in 8 months then :
A) Sell back the extra vehicles.
or B) destroy the roads and reuse the vehicles.
Both options will generate slightly more income (about 120% of the projected benefit). But beware, if you overdo it, it will give no money at all. It could even ruin you when the "sugar rush" fade. Of course, this is for rewarding micromanagement and careful planning ahead. Which is the spirit of the game.

Personal comment :
For first time in this pak, I played a test game and reached succesfully the 70 km/h road and the relevant vehicles (oil and bulk). It start to get pretty enjoyable. Hope you will like it too.

Offline Iluvalar

Re: pakIlu project now 128 !
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2012, 10:07:21 PM »



https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B9FqMMo3L6W_UVJ5ZVByaHdGNlk
Beta 3 is out, and I made the big leap to the pak128. I found there was a lot more roads and vehicles in that one and overall it's much more fun like that.


The base speed is still 30 km/h but now increase each 20 km/h. So it follows the pak roads.


I'm close to a official V1 release. So I wont detail too much the things I needed to change to mak the pak 128 playable, I'll just explain a new on the release. Please ! please ! test it a little. I'm sure you will have fun trying that out at least once ! :D

Offline greenling

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Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #32 on: December 25, 2012, 11:18:59 PM »
Iluvalar
i have beginn to test your new pakset testreports coming sone,
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Offline Iluvalar

Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #33 on: January 01, 2013, 03:49:17 PM »
Happy new year everyone !


Greenling : I'm looking forward for that review :) .

Offline TurfIt

Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2013, 01:34:47 AM »
Finally got around to trying your latest.

Where's the trees! I guess something went wrong with your build - copying over trees.pak from plain pak128 gets them back.

Vehicle power seems to be affecting the vehicle price backwards. The more powerful, the cheaper.
Also, locos/tractors are so much cheaper than the cargo carrying vehicles, it really doesn't matter much. Just pick the fastest/most powerful that can haul your load and away we go... Perhaps more of the costs should be allocated to the 'power' than the 'capacity'?

What's the base number of passengers/mail used to calculate when you can use the next level road? For freight, the factories are using ~300/month. i.e. If moving 300/month you use the 30km/h road, 600/month allows 50km/h road, 1200/ for 70, etc. What's that base number for pax? and mail?

When connecting low level feeder roads and creating faster backbones, the vehicles obviously spend some time traveling on the lower speeds. For a network with 50, 70, 90, and finally 110 km/h highways, I find the typical bonusspeed is ~85-95km/h - one full level below the peak highway speed in the network. Perhaps the cost of the ways could increase by 1.85/level instead of x2 while keeping the x2 factor in the vehicle calcs. That'd help encourage upgrading a little sooner - otherwise those high level roads need to be really jammed. Far in excess of the 16 lines it's theoretically costed for.

I look forward to seeing your script applied to the new pak128 2.2.0 with its nice selection of road speeds...

Offline Iluvalar

Re: pakIlu project
« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2013, 05:15:09 AM »
Thank you very much turfit.

I think I just turned off the tree to make my tests in more controlled environment, you can turn them on again.

I use the power of the vehicles to extrapolate their capacity. If that capacity is far from the one that I aimed, then the price will go up, but it will also impact down the running cost. So specially if you find a long section of loco with the same speed, the first ones will be more expensive but very cheap to run, the next will have their price go down and the running cost go up and near the top, the price will go up again and the running cost will drop again. I think the explanation for this is in this thread that was the only solution I found.

The locos are intentionally that cheap. If it cost more, it would be a strong motivation to always fill the locos at maximum capacity. IE. 7-8 tiles long (or whatever I set). The cheapest one should have around 4 tiles long, but you should find locos that are best at any length. And you should be able to play a lot more with different lenght as well as running mixed-goods trains much more often in this pak. True it doesn't matter much, but it still matter. Having small locos with only 1-2 wagons is an option.

It's supposed to be 100 unit per month. I'm unsure why you end up with 300... However, you can compare the prices of the freight to do the math. Half the price = double the traffic. It's quite high for the pax.

And yes, I considered a little part of the trip on unupgraded road going side way. To be exact, I used 1.5 in my equation.But I also increase the running cost by 10% each step. So yeah, we end up around 1.85 or so :) .

I will be happy to jump to 2.2.0 as soon as I can find the source code for it. And have a bit more time forward.