Railway crossing in tunnels

[Peyo]

I know this may seem strange, but there are some places that do have this in tunnels, between a road tunnel and a railway tunnel.

If this interests anyone, please tell me...

[emaxectranspoorte]

  And exactly where in the world have you seen this? :-\

[Peyo]

And exactly where in the world have you seen this? :-\

Sometimes, in older freight tunnels (carrying goods to/from a dock, for example), it's quite rare, I know...

[VS]

Find me two examples and I will believe you

[Lodovico]

This? 

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[Peyo]

This? 

Thank you all for help.

Thanks, yes, Lodovico, that. But sometimes even more complex.

[AP]

I've racked my brain and can't think of an example in the UK. I know there's a shared road-rail tunnel in Alaska (the Whittier Tunnel) but that's just a straight road-with-tramlines setup, not an intersection. I can't imagine a level crossing being permitted on safety grounds, because you'd never achieve the visibility splays for the approaches.

[Tomas]

When i know, in Europe (or only in Czech Republic) are any crosings under ground forbidden. Any halt in the underground is a security risk!

[AP]

By a cunning twist, I have discovered a non-subterranean Underground level crossing- currently there is one at the entrance to Neasden depot on the London Underground (pic), complete with barriers.

[DirrrtyDirk]

Err... so?

a "non-subterranean Underground level crossing"? Since the crossing is clearly visible above ground, I don't really see what this picture has to do with simutrans tunnels...?

[AP]

Perhaps I should have appended a  to the post.

[DirrrtyDirk]

For jokes and irony yes - that's (among other things) what smileys were created for, after all. 

[Casteele]

What, you cannot read the tone of his font!? :O (Sorry, couldn't help myself )

In terms of realism.. tunnel crossings and intersections are very dangerous due to limited visibility, and generally a very bad idea.

But in terms of game playability.. because this is a game and only _simulates_ a portion of reality, and as such, cannot do some things that can be done in reality (multi-level tunnels, for example), I agree that pathways should be allowed to intersect/cross underground. We can always pretend that one pathway is just on a lower level than the other..

Actually, I have wondered why we cannot simply lay pathways underground, allowing tunnels which curve slightly and do not match up to exits on a straight line. (That is, why can't we place a tunnel entrance, go underground and lay the road/rail to another point, and then place the exit?) An example of such a tunnel is the Fort McHenry Tunnel (http://www.roadstothefuture.com/Fort_McHenry_Tunnel.html) in Baltimore, Maryland, USA, which carries highway I-95 traffic under the harbour, and curves the entire length.

[VS]

Ahem... "underground mode"... are you still playing 88.15 or what was the last stable?

[Lodovico]

Actually, I have wondered why we cannot simply lay pathways underground, allowing tunnels which curve slightly and do not match up to exits on a straight line.

If you want to build "not straight" tunnels, why not to try to build one?
Or, what exactly do you want?

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[Casteele]

I downloaded http://downloads.sourceforge.net/simutrans/simuwin-sdl-101-0.zip last week -- So whichever one that is. It does not allow underground crossings, and when I switch to underground mode, the pathways toolsbars change to allow only stations, signals, etc. No road or rail.

[emaxectranspoorte]

Which pak version are you using? :-\

Mine work just fine.

EDIT: But no underground crossings anyway.

[DirrrtyDirk]

and when I switch to underground mode, the pathways toolsbars change to allow only stations, signals, etc. No road or rail.

You need to use the tunnel tool (the same one you create the entrances - or complete straight tunnels - with) not rail or road tools.

[Casteele]

Which pak version are you using? :-\

Mine work just fine.

EDIT: But no underground crossings anyway.

Pak64 101-0 from the SF site.

You need to use the tunnel tool (the same one you create the entrances - or complete straight tunnels - with) not rail or road tools.

The tunnel tool just gives a "no suitable ground" error. The only thing I can seem to do is build a straight tunnel, then use the tunnel tool to create a side spur. But I cannot delete one of the tunnel ends afterwords, or it deletes the side spur, too.

Anyhow, I am thinking I may have a technical issue on my end more suitable for the help forum, so let's not hijack this thread!

[DirrrtyDirk]

Use CTRL-Click to build (or remove) just the tunnels' entrances - and when in Underground mode, use the same tool (icon) but build your tunnels with it, like it was one of the rial or road tools you're used to above ground. Oh, you have to make sure you build from the existing part into the darkness - not the other way round (you always need to start from an existing part of tunnel!).

[emaxectranspoorte]

I'm interested, as I have a similar 'ground not suitable' problem when building a maglev tunnel underwater, both ends further away from sea level (near middle of map).

I am sorry, but I have to know, if possible... :-\

[Casteele]

Ahh, OK. Thanks.. I must not have pressed the control key fully when I tried it before. :/

Anyhow.. What I was suggesting was have tunnel entrance/exits be just that.. not place a whole section of tunnel between two of them. Then (if the road/rail/etc tools were enabled) we could create pathways that wander where ever, cross where ever, etc.

EDIT: It might even make possible underground entrances that go down into flat land tiles, rather than always requiring a slope to build the tunnel.

[emaxectranspoorte]

EDIT: It might even make possible underground entrances that go down into flat land tiles, rather than always requiring a slope to build the tunnel.

I also agree.  Hope it doesn't upset anyone. :-\

But what uses, do you think, it can have? :-\

EDIT: Ok, thanks, again, Dirk. I'll try to see if it works.

EDIT2: Ok, now it works, but it won't join.

[DirrrtyDirk]

Right now you can only start tunnels on slopes - and although underground mode is going to be reworked in a major way, this is - AFAIK - going to stay so.

[emaxectranspoorte]

EDIT2, Above.

Sorry, Dirk. :(

[Casteele]

A lot, I think. Some are purely cosmetic: making your game look "pretty." Others are gameplay issues: Let's say you have a thriving transportation company operating in a large city. Planning and logistics becomes a nightmare. So you decide to build an underground subway network to move goods (and people and mail) about. Ideally, you would like to just demolish one tile (one of the already existing stations) and turn it into an entrance to the underground network.

As it is, you'll have to demolish not just the one tile, but at least one or more others nearby so you can modify the land for a slope, plus you'll have to allocate land for the exit somewhere nearby, even if you intend to demolish it afterwords. All of this costs a lot more money than simply creating a single tile entrance. (And you know how the accountants back at corporate HQ are about allocating the budget.. )

It would also simplify the construction of such a network. No need to modify several tiles of land, only to demolish them afterwords, etc.

[emaxectranspoorte]

Thanks, Casteele.

A very good point you just made.

[DirrrtyDirk]

Oh I'd like to have that, too.  But I haven't heard that being worked on - ever (yet). OTOH let's wait what new underground will look like, and what opportunities it'll hold.