Author Topic: more headquarters  (Read 14697 times)

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Offline ny911

more headquarters
« on: October 05, 2014, 09:22:09 AM »
In the game there is the possibility to build two different stages of development of the headquarters. This has no effect for the transportation network  (lines, stops, goods, passengers ) of the player.  Uses in scenarios, headquarters can be used to create real visible targets for the human user. Unfortunately, there are only two types of headquarter and I'm a real bad painter.

Is it conceivable to include more than two headquarters. Increasing the construction cost significantly  ( 4*  or more for each level) would give the user even in complex and large maps with a lot of cash flow more goals.

Offline gauthier

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2014, 10:07:12 AM »
As far as I know, headquarters does have effect on the network, they attract passengers and mails as any other building would do. Obviously it would be great to have more headquarters but we need painters to make them, currently we are not enough people working on pak128 to care about HQ now. Unless someone paints some, there won't be more headquarters in a long time :(

Offline ny911

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2014, 03:11:57 PM »
You are right, headquarters effect the network.

Well, in the sourceforge I found the headquarters png and dat. For each headquarter there is only one image version. Does it mean that headquarters didn't need a summer and winter version and all four views?
Or are this images only from the old version of simutrans and didn't have it?

Offline gauthier

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2014, 09:11:20 PM »
Like all buildings, headquarters can have up to four orientations and a winter image as well. I guess their authors didn't have enough time or just didn't want to make so much work.

Offline ny911

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2014, 07:35:28 PM »
So here are two headquarter images (only one view, no winter version) based on the headquarter images in the pak128 source. Yes, I know there is still a lot to do to get a great image.

HQ small: image from MHz, changed unknown area around to green area with trees, a old fence and a second vehicle

HQ medium: image from Rmax500, downsized skyscraper image to get a medium building




Offline gauthier

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2014, 08:54:29 PM »
Very nice work for the small HQ. About the medium one, downgrading the original skyscraper is not a bad idea, upgrading the HQ by upgrading the building itself is obvious here. This medium HQ would be nice enough if it gets a texture on the roof. One or two more HQ levels between your medium one and the full height one would be perfect. Please send me your files as soon as it's finished so I can add these to the pak. Thanks for your work !

Offline Fabio

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Re: more headquarters
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2014, 10:48:15 PM »
Good job! It would be nice though to remove the grass at least from the small one, in order to fit all climates.


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Offline gauthier

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2014, 10:08:06 AM »
The problem, if grass is removed, is that the trees (which could be diversified by the way) will look weird in some climates like desert. Making grass "fade out" at the borders of the HQ could be a solution.

Offline ny911

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2014, 02:35:36 PM »
new images below.

- HQ00 = small one
- HQ01 = small skyscraper
- HQ02 = medium skyscraper

 Link to source: http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/hq_2014oct18v1.zip

ground: since the player can change the climates for each tile, it's his work to to. Or?

Offline gauthier

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2014, 02:48:53 PM »
To my mind, the only work of a player is playing although it's okay like that, it's not a big deal. If you think your headquarters are finished, I can add them immediately to the pak128 source, but the next release of pak128 is not planned yet.

Offline ny911

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2014, 04:39:28 PM »
> If you think your headquarters are finished

Yes they are finished. You will have to edit the dat file to add to the pak.

Offline Sarlock

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2014, 04:40:13 PM »
I've always had indecision when it comes to removing ground (grass/lawn) to allow the climate colour to come through.  While it fits a bit better with the climate zone, it doesn't look as nice as a nicely manicured lawn does.

ny911: How about snow versions?
Current projects: Pak128 Trees, blender graphics

Offline vorlon

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2014, 05:13:48 PM »
I think a good compromise is having a strip of pavement or some other obstruction between the nicely cut lawn and the natural terrain. This works especially well with large, urban structures which usually have a very well maintained yard regardless of the climate conditions.

Offline Fabio

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Re: more headquarters
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2014, 08:34:17 PM »
Winter (snow) version would be very appreciated. Small looks great, the other could use a stripe of pavement as Sarlock suggested.


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Offline ny911

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2014, 08:49:24 PM »
ny911: How about snow versions?
Well, I will try it. But making this images shows me that I'm a much better at coding databases, C/C++ or squirrel scenario scripts. So I will have to search for a good description to make the snow version.

lawn or ground climates: What about two small HQs? Like a small upgrade.
- one with no bench, no red car, no way lights and no lawn
- second width bench, rad car, way lights, bigger corrugated iron hall, well green lawn, maybe a flag ...

Quote
stripe of pavement
What kind of pavement? Where?

Offline gauthier

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2014, 09:27:06 AM »
Quote
What about two small HQs
Let's try that.

About the stripe of pavement : on the border of the building to have a limit between lawn and climate-dependant terrain.

Offline ny911

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2014, 12:32:54 PM »
here are two small versions:
- hq_00a.png  without lawn and small corrugated iron hall
- hq_00b.png bigger corrugated iron hall, lawn, more stuff
- hq_01.png as example off all three skyscraper with south border  pavement

http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/hq_2014oct20v2.zip

Offline gauthier

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2014, 08:58:07 PM »
Your work is really amazing ! The texture you used for lawn looks like an outdated version of pak128 grass. You will find current ones here.

Offline ny911

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2014, 10:05:52 PM »
Thanks for the link. Here is the hq_00b.png with new grass "Mediterran".  But now it will not be a different kind of grass in the "Mediterran" climate.  Does it matter? Is it possible to use different climate versions of the HQs? So we can give them different kind grass/lawn and trees.


Offline Yona-TYT

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2014, 12:59:11 AM »
Excellent work...  :thumbsup:

Offline gauthier

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2014, 05:39:27 PM »
The only way to change a building according to climates is making several versions of it, each one being restricted to one climate. This is easy for public buildings (citybuildings, curiosities, etc ...), but impossible for player buildings such as HQ, unfortunately.

You should try making your mediterranean grass "fade out" on the borders of the building, letting the natural grass appear. Look at the borders of the 60 km/h track's ballast to see what I am talking about.

Offline Zeno

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Re: more headquarters
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2014, 07:34:59 PM »
Those HQs look great, fantastic work ny911!

Btw, I don't know if it could be applied to these HQs, but what about using the needs_ground flag to make the game use the appropriate ground?

Offline ny911

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2014, 08:15:13 PM »
here is a picture with "fade out" grass of the small HQ.
Thank's for the needs_ground flag information, yes it will be needed for correct dat files.
What about useful amounts of the "level" flag of each HQ?

Quote
but impossible for player buildings such as HQ, unfortunately.
This is pity, but also has the advantage, that I do not need so much variants of this HQ.


Offline gauthier

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2014, 03:39:58 PM »
The levels of the two HQ currently in pak128 are 1 and 11. To my mind, an exponential growth is the best for this kind of object, let's say 1,2,4,8,16 for your five HQs ?

Offline Fabio

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Re: more headquarters
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2014, 09:36:06 AM »
Agreed!


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Offline ny911

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2014, 03:40:06 PM »
attached Version 3 of HQ images with:
  • six HQ images
  • now all HQs with player color flags
  • for the preview: dat/pak with needs_ground=1
  • first three HQs with growing trees
http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/hq_2014oct25v3.zip
edit: http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/hq_2014oct25v4.zip

HQ levels: 1,2,4,8,16,32  or  1,2,4,16,32,64
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 04:55:32 PM by ny911 »

Offline gauthier

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2014, 05:58:44 PM »
Nice. Could you try varying types of trees on small HQs ?

Offline ny911

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2014, 01:42:45 PM »
attached Version 5 of HQ images with:
  • varying types of trees on small HQs
  • Winter Version of small HQs
  • two more lights on HQ03 way to building
http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/hq_2014oct26v5.zip
example images:


Offline gauthier

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2014, 04:20:33 PM »
Awesome ! I'm adding this version to pak128.

EDIT : in fact no, too much work on .dat files.

Please correct following points :
_ Type=hq instead of Type=cur
_ remove "passengers", "chance" and "intro_year" parameters (useless for a hq)
_ winter graphics go in the same .dat, not in a separate building.

example :
Quote
### summer view ###
BackImage[0][0][0][0][0][0]=hq01.0.0
BackImage[0][0][1][0][0][0]=hq01.0.1
BackImage[0][0][2][0][0][0]=hq01.0.2
BackImage[0][1][0][0][0][0]=hq01.1.0
BackImage[0][1][1][0][0][0]=hq01.1.1
BackImage[0][1][2][0][0][0]=hq01.1.2
BackImage[0][2][0][0][0][0]=hq01.2.0
BackImage[0][2][1][0][0][0]=hq01.2.1
BackImage[0][2][2][0][0][0]=hq01.2.2
### winter view ###
BackImage[0][0][0][0][0][1]=hq01w.0.0
etc ...

I just noticed there's a parameter called "hq_level", let me find out what is it and if it has anything to do with "level".
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 04:33:12 PM by gauthier »

Offline Sarlock

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2014, 04:41:57 PM »
Very nicely done!  Nice trees, too  ;)
Current projects: Pak128 Trees, blender graphics

Offline ny911

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2014, 04:49:06 PM »
parameter:
hq_level=  the level, better the number of the HQ which is build
level= amount of passenger level

Quote
"intro_year" parameters (useless for a hq)
I'm not sure, but in pak128.Britain it look's like it works

dat file is in progress ...


Offline gauthier

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2014, 05:33:17 PM »
Quote
hq_level=  the level, better the number of the HQ which is build
I understand that. What I want to figure out is which level defines the cost of the HQ. Anyway, let's keep the exponential growth for "level" (1,2,4,8,16) and an ordinary increase rate for hq_level (1,2,3,4,5) ?

There is actually no introduction date for pak128's headquarters, I think it's better not to put restrictive parameters like intro_date.

Offline ny911

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2014, 08:23:07 PM »
attached the dat file. for icon and cursor it's still needs the player-hq-128.png

Quote
ordinary increase rate for hq_level (1,2,3,4,5)
changed to : 0,1,2,3,4,5

Quote
l growth for "level"
Well thats not as easy as I thought. Now it is set to: 8,16,32,64,128,256

Using the standard cost_multiply_headquarter=1000 the price level is to low and I'm not sure, the level=256 is about 14.000 more citizens might be to much.

calc of the price: "cost_multiply_headquarter * tile_size * (level - 1)"

Offline gauthier

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2014, 09:33:14 PM »
Quote
Using the standard cost_multiply_headquarter=1000
This can be changed easily.

I just figured out I was completely mistaken between level and hq_level the first time I talked about setting levels ... To make it clear :
Currently in pak128 :
HQ1 : level=11; hq_level=0
HQ2 : level=91; hq_level=1

The formula you gave looks good indeed.
So "level" defines two things : passenger level of the HQ and its cost. As the cost can be corrected with a multiplier, the first thing to fix is the passenger level. This is (level)*(number of tiles) = 9*level.

Most curiosities are about 100 (~11 for a 9 tile building). If we use 1,2,4,8,16; that would make 9 passengers/mail for the first HQ and 144 passengers/mail for the biggest one. Maybe this is still few ... let's say 2,4,8,16,32 so this would range from 18 p/m to 288 p/m ?

About the cost : A big station hall costs 9000. Applying 9000 to the first headquarter makes the biggest one cost 144k ... I think it could be more expansive. What about 45k for the first headquarter and 720k for the biggest ? 720k is still much affordable for a player with a well developed network. This would make the multiplier equal to 2500. (I know it's level-1 and not level in the formula, I found it easier to work with this approximation).

Offline ny911

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2014, 11:43:55 PM »
Quote
let's say 2,4,8,16,32 so this would range from 18 p/m to 288 p/m ?
Sounds good if you mean: 2,4,8,16,32,64
All together, there are six HQ buildings.

My attention is to have for small and for a well developed networks headquarters with a price level that's gives the player a financial target. In other words the first HQ is cheap and the last one will cost multiple more than any highspeed train. Like in the real world you can start in a barrack ... until you buildup a skyscraper.

biggest HQ: 9 * (64-1) * 2500 ~ 1.417k
That's still less, I compare it with trains:
a four station long "RENFE Class 447" train is more then 1.000k
a four station long "BR-373 Eurostar" train more than 2.213k
a two station long "RVg 0-4-0T" bulk train (year 1901)  about 88k

To give small network player a small price, what about:
level:2,4,8,32,64,128
multiplier:10.000
Result: first 90k, ..., last 11.430k

Offline gauthier

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2014, 11:50:17 AM »
Quote
level:2,4,8,32,64,128
multiplier:10.000
Result: first 90k, ..., last 11.430k
Multiplier is 5000 here, anyway this sounds really good. It would be great to have something between the big barrack and the small building (level 16). Have you tried making a new building from scratch ?

Offline ny911

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #36 on: October 27, 2014, 06:48:12 PM »
Quote
Multiplier is 5000 here
no, 10.000
"cost_multiply_headquarter * tile_size * (level - 1)"
e.g. small HQ (level=2) : 10.000 * 9 * (2- 1 ) = 90.000

edit:
I didn't have tried scratch, may be in future. And yes a building (level 16) may be done in the future. I'm not sure what kind will be the best.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2014, 07:27:59 PM by ny911 »

Offline gauthier

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #37 on: October 27, 2014, 09:09:00 PM »
Quote
- 1)
forgot this one again  :-[

I'm adding your headquarters.

EDIT : done (revision 1490). The multiplier was already equal to 10,000 in simuconf although it became 1,000 in game, so I increased it to 100,000 in simuconf (10,000 in game).
EDIT² : modifying the multiplier in simuconf had no effect in game (even after having started a new map, of course), the multiplier must be in another file :/
« Last Edit: October 27, 2014, 09:29:22 PM by gauthier »

Offline ny911

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #38 on: October 28, 2014, 11:26:04 PM »
Quote
EDIT² : modifying the multiplier in simuconf had no effect in game (even after having started a new map, of course), the multiplier must be in another file
I'm not sure (I'm sure) but on the simuconf at
http://sourceforge.net/p/simutrans/code/HEAD/tree/pak128/pak128.prototype/config/
the first char is a "#" so this will not effect something.
The effect without will be on a new game and not at the startup game, there is a difference on the loading parameters. Ans in the new game it fit.

Offline gauthier

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #39 on: October 29, 2014, 09:58:03 AM »
Quote
the first char is a "#" so this will not effect something.
Indeed, you are right. So the problem is fixed and your headquarters are now fully operational ;) (pak128 revision 1491) Thanks a lot for your contribution !

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall

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Re: more headquarters
« Reply #40 on: October 29, 2014, 03:36:25 PM »
the multiplier must be in another file :/

Just like in Super Mario Brothers, the princess is in another castle. :)

Offline VS

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Re: more headquarters
« Reply #41 on: November 07, 2014, 01:58:21 PM »
Beautiful :)

My projects... Tools for messing with Simutrans graphics. Graphic archive - templates and some other stuff for painters. Development logs for most recent information on what is going on. And of course pak128!

Offline ny911

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #42 on: November 08, 2014, 03:02:53 PM »
works all fine, HQ prices are okay.
checked with pak128 r1491 and simutrans r7358, thanks.

Offline gauthier

Re: more headquarters
« Reply #43 on: November 08, 2014, 08:06:52 PM »
Thank you for these headquarters ;)