Author Topic: More Cargo Bays  (Read 15834 times)

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Offline Aquin

More Cargo Bays
« on: January 24, 2015, 08:20:30 PM »
Road based goods transport suffers (imho) from really high cost for the station infrastructure, especially after the staging inn retires in 1844. At that moment one is forced to use the cargo bay with a capacity of 128, which is an insane capacity considering, that trucks won't hit a capacity of 30 until the 1960ies.

I would suggest that there should be 3 cargo bays of different size available at all ages, the sizes grow over time.

like:
pre 1844: small 20 goods, medium 40 goods, no large, but there is the staging post with 10 of all and the staging inn with 40 of all.
until 1920: small 20 goods, medium 40 goods, large 60 goods
until 1960: small 30 goods, medium 60, large 90 goods
post 1960: small 60 goods, medium 120, large 180 goods

Basically the small bay retires when it becomes to small to hold the load for a single up to date truck. The larger variants should hold at least 2 or 3 truck loads.

I started playing around with blender using the blends from JamesHood to make some cargo bays by adding some cranes to the standard cargo bay to create some that give the impression of a more important/larger station.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2015, 08:34:07 PM »
I do like those! I do not know whether stops in Standard are capable of having arbitrary sized capacities, however, or whether they are still bound to multiples of 32.
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Offline Aquin

Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2015, 08:40:26 PM »
If standard is limited to multiples of 32, that would still allow for 32, 64, 96, 128 and 160-sized versions.
But I think these stations should go to both standard and experimental.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2015, 08:57:52 PM »
Yes, that seems sensible. They do look good.

Edit: I wonder whether you might want to make the lowest capacity cargo road stops of the straight through type, perhaps marked in the modern era with just road markings?
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Offline Aquin

Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2015, 09:03:06 PM »
I wonder whether you might want to make the lowest capacity cargo road stops of the straight through type, perhaps marked in the modern era with just road markings?

That will make inner-city placement easier, especially in standard. With the loading times of experimental it might lead to more congestion.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2015, 09:04:57 PM »
That will make inner-city placement easier, especially in standard. With the loading times of experimental it might lead to more congestion.

Yes, that is true; although there is a feature request currently under consideration for Standard to allow overtaking of loading vehicles, which would be ported to Experimental if it were ever to be implemented.
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Offline Aquin

Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2015, 11:49:13 PM »
That would indeed make small stops on the street more attractive.

In the meantime I created an all concrete version of the small stop.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2015, 11:54:19 PM »
Splendid!
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Offline Aquin

Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2015, 09:38:36 AM »
And some more creativity:


Offline jamespetts

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Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2015, 10:24:04 AM »
Interesting, although I am not sure about the last one, as the roof looks incomplete, as it has no supports on the left hand side or front. This is taken from the station overall roof, but points in another direction, I think. Also, you might want to think about finding ways of incorporating the player colour into these loading bays.
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Offline Aquin

Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2015, 11:11:54 AM »
You spotted correctly where I took the roof from :-) Why create new stuff if there is nice stuff around? But now I have given the open front some extra support, and raised the thick front pillars all the way to the top.

And in the meantime I also copy-pasted a container termnial for the modern times. The current modern cargo terminal can survive as the small version for modern times.

Basically all the green parts in the stations can be recolored to player colors.

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Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2015, 12:05:59 PM »
Ahh, the top one is better now; splendid - and re-colouring to match player colours is an excellent idea. The container cargo terminal looks good, too.
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Offline Aquin

Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2015, 02:23:21 PM »
To finish the creative phase here is the large modern terminal. And also a minor change to the medium one.

Now I think I have to figure out how to
- get the images into the game
- get the foreground parts out, for those where I have roofs/cranes that should go in front of the trucks
- incorporate player color

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Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2015, 03:09:36 PM »
Excellent!
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Offline Aquin

Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2015, 03:24:50 PM »
A question regarding the .dat file and the station capacity.

"level=1" results in 32 capacity and "level=4" in 128 capacity, in standard and experimental, unless I specify
"station_capacity=100" to set a different value, which will be ignored by standard but used by experimental?
and dims should be "Dims=1,1,4" for a dead end stop and "Dims=1,1,2" for a drive through?

And what are the rendering settings for the cursor and the icon?

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Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2015, 03:34:23 PM »
I do not know about the cursor rendering settings; the icons, however, are usually taken from parts of the normal rendered images and superimposed on a blank icon graphic in the GIMP, and I suspect that the cursors are too. I cannot remember off the top of my head how the dims= setting works: it is best to compare with other .dat files. Unless Standard has changed recently to recognise station_capacity, your description is correct.
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Offline kierongreen

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Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2015, 04:25:39 PM »
capacity, maintenance and price were all incorporated into Standard getting on for two years ago I think including cross compatibility with Experimental (one uses capacity, the other uses station_capacity but both should recognise both texts)...

Offline Aquin

Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2015, 06:38:26 PM »
No, a stop with the following in its .dat file results in a 160 capacity stop in standard (r7373)

level=5
station_capacity=85
capacity=100

Offline kierongreen

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Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2015, 11:20:58 PM »
Are you compiling with a recent makeobj?

Offline kierongreen

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Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2015, 11:25:58 PM »
(where recent means compiled from a svn version after 6656):
Code: [Select]
r6656 | kierongreen | 2013-08-18 23:28:38 +0100 (Sun, 18 Aug 2013) | 1 line

ADD: capacity, cost and maintenance can be set for each station building

Offline Aquin

Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2015, 07:26:01 AM »
That seemed to have been the case. Now with Makeobj v55-3 it correctly adjusts the station capacity.

Offline Bear789

Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2015, 08:12:49 AM »
Speaking about cargo bays, is there a reason why there are no through cargo bays in Pak Britain? Given how Simutrans handles road traffic, it's kind of a waste because a bay can only handle one truck at a time. With through bays, you could approach it from both ways with a couple of waypoints and use both lanes.
If it's ment to be a restriction, it doesn't work anyway: given the need of a one tile dead end that spurs off the main road for the bay, I'd rather use a bus stop on the road and add a cargo extension building right next to it as it takes the same amount of space, it allows through operations and it handles more stuff.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 08:27:39 AM by Bear789 »

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Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2015, 10:07:13 AM »
Through stops would be a good idea, although one problem is that road vehicles carrying cargo, as opposed to buses, take a long time to load/unload (in Experimental, at least), blocking the road for other vehicles. Two changes would make road stops behave better than at present: firstly, it would be helpful to have road vehicles able to overtake vehicles stopped at a stop, and secondly, it would be good for two road vehicles to be able to use a terminus stop simultaneously.
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Offline Aquin

Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2015, 04:50:21 PM »
I guess I can make some graphics for through-stops, since I am doing a lot of stop graphics already ;-) I'll just hav to decide if they will have an even lower capacity than terminus stops, of if I give them slightly increased maintenance :D

Offline Aquin

Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2015, 09:13:29 PM »
Making progress :-)

Here is a screenshot showing two of the new truck stops in game, it is the 1750 medium and the 1960 large stop. Both including correct front images and player colors.

The rest of the stops will follow.

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Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2015, 10:06:35 PM »
Splendid!
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Offline Bear789

Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2015, 09:20:13 AM »
it would be helpful to have road vehicles able to overtake vehicles stopped at a stop

Would it be easier if, rather than having traffic overtaking the stopped vehicle (which I think I understood in an old suggestion topic, is not as easy as it seems), the stopped vehicle is removed from the traffic flow? Is this nonsense?
I mean, in real life on busy road there are usually bays in the sidewalk or empty spaces in the parking lane where busses and sometimes delivery trucks can stop without interfearing with the traffic flow.

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Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2015, 09:57:27 AM »
That is quite similar in principle, and makes sense to some extent, although one would have to consider whether one is simulating a 'bus stop with a bay or without one, and the latter is, I think, somewhat more common, especially where space is limited.
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Offline Aquin

Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2015, 07:53:02 PM »
I am sure you are already burning to test these great new truckstops, and a third one (1750 small) just got finished!
And they are available on github https://github.com/Aquin13/Simutrans-truck-stops
The menu-icons are not perfect yet.

--- EDIT ---
Just added 1844 small stop, and included size adjusted maintenance and pricing information.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 09:05:45 PM by Aquin »

Offline The Hood

Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2015, 11:22:05 AM »
Thanks for doing all these - I like them a lot. Great to have more variety. I'm not convinced about the one with the green over-roof though - it just doesn't seem to look like a freight stop to me.

Offline Aquin

Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2015, 05:38:00 PM »
Today's update:
1844 medium and large stop. The large stop needed a redesign as it suffered from clipping problems, and some element from the large stop was then copied to the medium stop. Also the container terminal got pushed in time to a more realistic 1969.

Edit:
Even more crativity
The 1920 small and medium stops are finished.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 09:19:36 PM by Aquin »

Offline Aquin

Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #31 on: February 01, 2015, 02:37:52 PM »
And another 1920 station, this one got some oil tanks, even with secondary player color.

Offline The Hood

Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #32 on: February 01, 2015, 03:02:05 PM »
Nice work - although the textures in screenshot 23 seem a little off: the roof seems too sharp and the sand/coal is very bright.

Offline Aquin

Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #33 on: February 01, 2015, 04:21:05 PM »
Thanks for your suggestion. I darkened the roof, and now I like it much better myself.

Offline The Hood

Re: More Cargo Bays
« Reply #34 on: February 01, 2015, 04:34:27 PM »
Excellent - that fits much better with the pak style.