Author Topic: Passenger Behavior Regarding Multiple Services  (Read 2136 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Drewthegreat87

Passenger Behavior Regarding Multiple Services
« on: May 20, 2016, 08:50:43 PM »
Hello,


I was just curious about passenger behavior regarding multiple services over the same route. Say, for example, I have a train route from Major Terminus A to Major Terminus B with intermediate stops at 1, 2, 3.

Term A -----1------2------3------Term B

Now, I introduce a new service that goes just from Terminus A to Terminus B non-stop

Term A ---------------------------Term B

I've noticed that passengers tend to just pick either/or. Is that the programmed behavior or does speed/stop count factor into passengers choosing the "easiest" route? I've seen it written before that they typically will pick a route with fewest transfers/stops. Not sure how accurate that is though.

The reason why I ask is that I like to layer my major corridors with stopping trains and intercity express trains. I would want to avoid a situation where most passengers at a station with their final destination being the "Major Terminus A/B" or other stops served by the express service to choose the stopping service and thus crowding the train for the local passengers down the line, if that makes sense.

Thanks for your help and input!

Offline prissi

  • Developer
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 8764
  • Total likes: 307
  • Helpful: 229
  • Languages: De,EN,JP
Re: Passenger Behavior Regarding Multiple Services
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2016, 09:26:06 PM »
The train will be first filled with passengers for the next stop, so in A first all 1, than all 2 then all 4 and if there is space left also for B. And in B first 3, 2, 1, and then A. Thus, if there is not enough capacity, later destinations will be starved. Or if more people want to bord at 1 for some time than passengers who want get off, then long queue could start there.

Offline DrSuperGood

Re: Passenger Behavior Regarding Multiple Services
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2016, 09:54:34 PM »
I think it is the first train to arrive will haul the passengers as long as Term A and Term B are the same and not separate stops. If they are separate stops with similar/same coverage then it will choose which ever gets them to their destination in as few transfers as possible (same in this case) and then by as few stops as possible (the direct route).

In Simutrans Experimental they should select the fastest line to their destination. However this logic has been buggy in the past so may not work perfectly.

Offline Drewthegreat87

Re: Passenger Behavior Regarding Multiple Services
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2016, 01:44:02 AM »
I think it is the first train to arrive will haul the passengers as long as Term A and Term B are the same and not separate stops. If they are separate stops with similar/same coverage then it will choose which ever gets them to their destination in as few transfers as possible (same in this case) and then by as few stops as possible (the direct route).

In Simutrans Experimental they should select the fastest line to their destination. However this logic has been buggy in the past so may not work perfectly.

Yeah, in my example, Terminal A and B would be two different stops, each in a different city, so what you're saying is that, they will look for the quickest route/least transfers if they're different. So Passengers going to somewhere in City B (Terminal B) from A, would take the express non-stop service as it's "quicker" or am I getting Experimental's features confused with Standard? I'm working with Standard, by the way.

Thanks you both for your responses!

Offline Vladki

Re: Passenger Behavior Regarding Multiple Services
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2016, 06:24:04 AM »
In standard, only tramsfers count into decision. Not stops. Pax will take the first train that takes them to their next hop. Even if it would be a detour.

Offline DrSuperGood

Re: Passenger Behavior Regarding Multiple Services
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2016, 03:08:23 PM »
Quote
In standard, only tramsfers count into decision. Not stops. Pax will take the first train that takes them to their next hop. Even if it would be a detour.
Only if leaving from the same stop to the same stop connected by multiple lines. In such a case the game does not make any distinction between the lines and the ware appears suitable for shipment by both.

There is some priority based on number of stops on a line. For example if I was to cargo bounce ware from a supplier to a consumer then you could stop me doing so by setting up your own competing line which connects directly to the consumer. All the goods would take your 2 stop line as opposed to my 20+ stop line despite connecting the same supplier to the same consumer. This also applies to transfers to some extent and can cause problems in large interconnected passenger networks.

Offline Leartin

Re: Passenger Behavior Regarding Multiple Services
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2016, 09:03:44 AM »
Yeah, in my example, Terminal A and B would be two different stops, each in a different city, so what you're saying is that, they will look for the quickest route/least transfers if they're different. So Passengers going to somewhere in City B (Terminal B) from A, would take the express non-stop service as it's "quicker" or am I getting Experimental's features confused with Standard? I'm working with Standard, by the way.

Thanks you both for your responses!

Not quite, there is a difference between routing and which trains are taken.
Assume you have Terminals A, B, C and D. A is connected to B and C, B and C are connected to D, but there is no direct connection from A to D. In routing, the 'pax decide' whether to go via C or B, based on how many stops and hops there are on each route. Each hop counts as 8 points, each stop one, and the route with the lowest point count 'wins'
So, if there is an express connection A-B and an express connection B-D, that will win, and at A, you will have pax going to B. However - and that's back to your original question - these pax then will pick whichever vehicle comes first and goes to B, if no other pax at A have priority over them. Priority has who travels the least amount of stops on the route of the vehicle. Thus whether pax use local lines instead of the express line depends on whether the local line is full otherwise.

This system is a bit faulty though, and it can be played. Assume there is no express connection between any of the stops, and because of the points, your pax go over C rather than B, even though that was not intended by you. You can now buy the cheapest vehicle that can transport pax and set it's route to create a fake express connection between A and B. The game will see the express connection in routing, even if it's just a horse, so the pax then will go over B, but using the vehicles that are already in place. I am not entirely sure if it works while the fake express vehicle is still in depot, but it certainly works if it's out and finds no route, thus banning such fake express vehicles to some island or mapcorner is an option.

Offline Ters

  • Coder/patcher
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 4733
  • Total likes: 180
  • Helpful: 108
  • Languages: EN, NO
Re: Passenger Behavior Regarding Multiple Services
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2016, 03:54:26 PM »
Furthermore, continuing with Leartin's example, if the points for A-B-D is the same as for A-C-D, you may find that passengers going from A to D will go via B and passengers going from D to A will go via C. This can lead to an unbalanced load on the lines, as there will be more passengers going from A to B than B to A. If there is no direct link between B and C, passengers going from B to C via A might compensate, as long as passengers going from C to B go via D, but this is up to chance as well.

But that's not all. Whether passengers choose to go via B or C when there is no reason to prefer one of them, is based on some internal technical detail, which changes over time. So suddenly you might find that passengers from A to D go via C rather than B. You may then suddenly have to shift vehicles around to meet the new traffic flows. If you do nothing to your network, the passengers' choice might remain stable, but saving and loading the game counts as doing something to your network (it affects the internal technical detail).

I try to avoid situations like this A-B-D-C-A pattern described by Leartin for this reason, but it is not easy, as the pattern can appear on a much larger scale as well.

Offline Drewthegreat87

Re: Passenger Behavior Regarding Multiple Services
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2016, 09:51:22 PM »
Thank you Ters and Leartin for your detailed info. The way I set up my network almost always leads to the situations you've both described of one route, usually not the one you intend becoming the "Main" route for passengers and gets overloaded.

I adjusted this problem by "adding" stops and truncating routes in junctions. I'll have to post some screenshots later of specifically what I'm talking about, but I'll attempt to describe:

I have several different type of train services that will run on a single trunk line say from Terminus A to Terminus B:
ICEx (Intercity Express) The initials I place in the line manager window for ease of locating. A - B nonstop

        This type of service only usually stops at major termini or junctions (no more than three or four stops max), fastest most direct service between A and B

IC (Intercity): Stops at more intermediate junctions or where lines cross (usually limited to 5 to 7 stops)
A - 5 - B

R (Regional): If the trunk line is set up like this: A -1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-B, with the numbers being local stops, I'll set a series of R trains to cover certain portions of the line usually radiating from the nearest Terminus, so for example: R train one would go A -1-2-3-4-5 and R train two would go B-8-7-6-5. Both trains meet up at station 5 and that would become a "Junction" station where an IC or ICE train would a halt. If I had, as I used to do, a single stopping train calling at all the stops between A and B, I would get results as you guys were talking about. I've found if I break the lines up into segments, I can force pax onto either IC or ICEx trains. The naming scheme I borrowed from European train classifications as in the US, we're lucky to have a train at all, nevermind what "type" it is!

B (Branch) These short lines usually radiate from junction stations and will connect with a Regional or, depending on size of the city/passenger numbers, an IC train.

I've done my best using this system to avoid the pitfalls of the way the Pax route themselves over the map and I think it's working so far. I started this thread to get a much better understanding of the mechanics behind it and to see if what I was going would be a decent work around. I usually still end up with stations that are WAY, WAY over their capacity for passengers at junctions and other locations, but I don't necessarily mind this. I play more for creation than actual profiteering (per the game).

Again, I'll try to post some screen shots of my network for clarification of what I'm describing above.

Thank you guys for your input!