Author Topic: climates for city roads  (Read 1025 times)

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Offline Leartin

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climates for city roads
« on: March 19, 2017, 06:23:32 PM »
In simuconf you can list all roads for cities. Simutrans will look through the list and pick the first that's eligible - which is usually due to timeline restrictions.

I wonder - if the climate-parameter was brought over from buildings, could simutrans be taught to check for that as well while going through the cityroad-list?

Offline Ters

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Re: climates for city roads
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2017, 08:01:20 PM »
Probably, but I have yet to see a type of road that was climate specific, apart from ice/packed snow. And that one is even season specific, except for the South Pole Traverse.

Offline Leartin

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Re: climates for city roads
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2017, 09:16:08 PM »
If we were taking 'climate' literally, you would probably be right. But in Simutrans, climate means region as well, each region coming with a different style.

As an example, I attached how my latest mediterran houses look with the current cobblestone road and the current sidewalk. While both road and sidewalk probably exist like that somewhere in a mediterran country, they certainly don't go well with the style for the houses. I'd like to change the sidewalk* pattern completely for the pattern on the base of the houses, and exchange the cobblestone pattern for something in a warmer gray, perheps a bit lighter. It's worse in the desert area, which is even more stylized.

Now I don't think most paksets would profit much from this. Older paksets don't even utilize climates all that well, regional paksets for single countries might not have much difference between the climates. Nevertheless, it feels like one of these missing features. You know - sure you can create climates, and define precisely what spawns in them - except for the roads, sidewalks and bridges, they are always the same.

*Yes, this is about roads, not sidewalks. Sidewalks can be integrated in the road anyway, so no point in requesting them seperately

Offline An_dz

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Re: climates for city roads
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2017, 05:25:33 PM »
As we talk about this, I would like to extend this request to rivers as pak96.comic has two that are very similar but one is more suitable for lower climates, while the other more for mountainous climates.

Offline Leartin

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Re: climates for city roads
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2017, 09:31:16 AM »
Of course, it would best be implemented for ways in general.


But that might require an additional game setting that allows human players to disobey climate restrictions, because someone will make a buildable way with restrictions, and someone will get angry about it. ;)

Offline Yona-TYT

Re: climates for city roads
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2017, 10:56:16 AM »
Already the arctic climate affects to the ways, only has to do the same with the other climates.
It's those details that make simutrans more attractive.  ;D

Offline An_dz

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Re: climates for city roads
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2017, 03:50:02 PM »
But that might require an additional game setting that allows human players to disobey climate restrictions, because someone will make a buildable way with restrictions, and someone will get angry about it. ;)
I thought we were just talking about the randomly generated data, when Simutrans itself builds the stuff it will choose following the climate rules we define in the simuconf file, it won't have any effect on the end-user, except that generated ways will follow climate rules.

Offline Leartin

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Re: climates for city roads
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2017, 04:09:28 PM »
I thought we were just talking about the randomly generated data, when Simutrans itself builds the stuff it will choose following the climate rules we define in the simuconf file, it won't have any effect on the end-user, except that generated ways will follow climate rules.

I am talking mostly about the randomly generated data. We put dates in the simuconf file, but technically we don't need to - it would read entry and retire date of the pak as well. So I think climate restrictions would go the same way.
Of course, if we only get it for generated data via simuconf file, that would be fine with me as well. It just seems like adding the climate parameter to ways is the cleaner method.

Offline INJMVO

Re: climates for city roads
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2017, 07:16:29 PM »

While reading trough Wadi's came to mind (Basically dried up riverbeds with some mud pools here and there)
Other than that its mostly a style difference for the different kind of roads (with the occasional sand/dirt sweeping over, the 128.pak dirt road could go from dust/sand to mud to ice)
There is also the point to keep in mind that we would ask the artist to make roads for every direction, crossing, corner and ending [16]/Diagonals [4]/full height slopes[4] (not accounting for rail) /half height slopes [4] and then for every one of the 6 climate's (28x6=168), technically also the snow images for every climate except for desert and arctic/alpine/rocky (28x4=112,) plus the icon and cursor [2] for a total of 282 graphics, for every road/speed, elevated, bridges and tunnel entrances.

Even if it would be just fading/recoloring it would be quite a task to completely utilize the climates, so it would be mostly default tiles with the occasional special themed tile.

Since you (normally) won't use greenery on your tile since it would repeat itself  it could be handy for the [/size]new decorative roadtype if the coders would give those to us,since then you could make a row of cacti/shrubs/bushes/trees/evergreens [/font]which would automatically adapt to the tile its on.

Offline An_dz

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Re: climates for city roads
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2017, 11:13:06 PM »
I am talking mostly about the randomly generated data. We put dates in the simuconf file, but technically we don't need to - it would read entry and retire date of the pak as well. So I think climate restrictions would go the same way.
Of course, if we only get it for generated data via simuconf file, that would be fine with me as well. It just seems like adding the climate parameter to ways is the cleaner method.
One point is that in the simuconf.tab it's easier for the user to be able to change it, in the pak file you must have the sources to change the behaviour.

There is also the point to keep in mind that we would ask the artist to make roads for every direction, crossing, corner and ending [16]/Diagonals [4]/full height slopes[4] (not accounting for rail) /half height slopes [4] and then for every one of the 6 climate's (28x6=168), technically also the snow images for every climate except for desert and arctic/alpine/rocky (28x4=112,) plus the icon and cursor [2] for a total of 282 graphics, for every road/speed, elevated, bridges and tunnel entrances.
Just because the option exists it does not mean it has to be used. If you want to create a way without climate differences you don't do it. But having the option over not having it, I prefer having it.

Since you (normally) won't use greenery on your tile since it would repeat itself  it could be handy for the new decorative roadtype if the coders would give those to us
There's a bug to be fixed and the way makeobj is currently implemented may not be the best.

Offline Leartin

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Re: climates for city roads
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2017, 11:21:11 AM »
There is also the point to keep in mind that we would ask the artist to make roads for every direction, crossing, corner and ending [16]/Diagonals [4]/full height slopes[4] (not accounting for rail) /half height slopes [4] and then for every one of the 6 climate's (28x6=168), technically also the snow images for every climate except for desert and arctic/alpine/rocky (28x4=112,) plus the icon and cursor [2] for a total of 282 graphics, for every road/speed, elevated, bridges and tunnel entrances.

That's what you COULD do. That's what we would empower artists to do, not what we ask from them ;)
Actually if it was just fading colors, I could come up with different color settings for each climate and let Photoshop do the work automatically. I'd need some time to set it up, of course, but once that is done, I'd get variations for each way virtually instantly. Would never do that though.

You are right that it would be mostly default tiles, with some special themed. Especially in the beginning. With time, more 'special themed' tiles might appear.

[...]would automatically adapt to the tile its on.
*caugh* http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=13556.msg134630#msg134630 *caugh* - sadly, not the most liked/discussed idea, but I would still be all for it.

Offline Vladki

Re: climates for city roads
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2017, 04:37:38 PM »
The linked proposal looks very interesting.