Author Topic: A snippet of relative pricing information  (Read 67239 times)

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Offline jamespetts

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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #175 on: January 08, 2016, 05:48:21 PM »
According to this website, the LSWR M7 class of locomotive cost £1,400 each to build in 1896.
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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #176 on: January 10, 2016, 01:20:21 PM »
According to the LNER Encyclopedia, the EE/1 prototype electric passenger locomotive was constructed in 1922 at a cost of £27,767.
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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #177 on: April 02, 2016, 12:14:27 AM »
El_Slapper has posted some very interesting and useful information about aircraft running costs on this post.

In summary:

Quote from: el_slapper
A340
Quote

    Consommation d'un AIRBUS A340 - 300 de 271 T au décollage, en montée initiale et en croisière:
    Décollage, rotation jusqu'à 1.500 feets: 2,2 T
    Montée initiale de 1.500 feets à 31.000 feets: 5,8 T
    Croisière: 1 tonne par 70 Nm

==> This plane, ideal for flights between 300NM & 6000NM, drinks, when full, 8T of petrol for reaching his flight level. The same amount is enough to cover 560NM. When it pushes to 7000NM, it drinks 108T in total.

I did find here a calculator (not accurate, unfortunately), but also a few interesting figures concerning fuel - figures that are averages seen on true flights.

For cargo planes,
_when the MTOW is below 100 tons, count 107,3 liters(not tons) drunk per 100km per ton transported for a flight below 1000km, and only 76,4 liters when the distance is between 1000 & 4000km.
_When the MTOW is between 100 & 250 tons, count 64 liters drung below 1000km, and 50,8 liters drunk between 1000 & 4000km.
_When the MTOW is above 250 tons, only distance over 4000km are considered. And the total consuption between 4000km & 7000km is 21 liters(per 100km per pessenger), while it's 21,4 above 7000km.
In short : around 7000km(3780NM or so), the excess of distance begins to cost you more than the take-off. That's for the big birds like the A340 of the other link.

Fuel can be up to 35% of the expenses of a plane...when fuel prices are high, which was true a few years ago, but no more today. For more easy years, you can count around 35% in personal, 10% in airport fees, 5% in navigation fees, 20% in fuel, 15% in marketing(not taken in account in simutrans), 10% in maintenance, and the rest in misc. Airport fees are per landing, navigation fees & personal expenses are linear. The 10% of maintenance are really 90% linked to take-off and landing. Flying nearly does not wear the plane. The tough beast to count is fuel.

And my numbers are roughly accurate today. Very roughly.
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Offline jamespetts

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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #178 on: June 04, 2016, 04:36:27 PM »
According to Wikipedia, the British Rail Class 68 (2013 build) was initially built as a class of 15 for a cost of £45 million (that is, £3 million each).
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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #179 on: July 25, 2016, 12:11:31 PM »
The Wikipedia article on competition between Airbus and Boeing has some very interesting information about aircraft pricing, including information that airlines are frequently charged a much lower price (on average, 50% lower) than the list price for purchasing aircraft.
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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #180 on: September 12, 2016, 08:56:03 PM »
The Wikipedia article on the Transrapid has some useful information about maglev pricing.
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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #181 on: November 06, 2016, 12:29:11 PM »
This video about the London Routemaster 'buses suggests (at around 28:00) that they cost 150% of the price of other 'buses to build when they were new.

Edit: The original Rotherham trolleybuses, solid tyred Brush-built 28-seaters each cost £823 new according to this video at 4:40. The same video at 5:03 tells that the later AEC trolleybuses cost £1,560 each in 1922. At 17:10 in the same film, it reports that Sunbeam F4 trolleybuses of 1948 (single decker, 32-seats) of Mexborough cost £4,115 each. The video further states (at 22:00) that, in (I think) the 1950s, the cost of building trolleybus wires had increased to approximately £10,000 per mile.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2016, 04:01:19 PM by jamespetts »
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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #182 on: November 21, 2016, 09:41:15 AM »
According to this Wikipedia article about Thomas Tilling, the well-known early 'bus entrepreneur, he bought his first horse carriage in 1846 for £30. It is not stated, however, whether this was a new or secondhand price.
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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #183 on: December 05, 2016, 11:00:40 PM »
According to this Wikipedia article, the Cambrian Railway's depot at Oswestry cost £28,000 to build in 1865.
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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #184 on: December 24, 2016, 10:47:28 PM »
According to The Story of the London 'Bus by John Day, the LGOC/AEC B-Type 'bus introduced in London in 1911 cost £300 apiece, which was relatively cheap for a motor 'bus at the time.

Edit: According to "The British Motor Bus; an Illustrated History" by Gavin Booth, an Italian built Fiat chassis with a Dodson 36-seat body, as used by the Bristol Tramways & Carriage Conmpany and bought in 1906 cost £850.

Edit 2: According to the first source (Day, p. 41), the LGOC ordered a petrol electrib 'bus (a 30 seater Fischer) in june 1902 at a cost of £450.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2016, 09:35:36 PM by jamespetts »
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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #185 on: December 27, 2016, 04:29:31 PM »
According to the Coventry Transport Museum, a Daimler Wagonette of 1898 would have cost £373. In these early days, the "wagonettes" were used both as private motor cars and small 'buses. The small example on the Coventry museum's website seems more like a motor car than a 'bus, however.
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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #186 on: December 28, 2016, 04:20:11 PM »
According to this website, the Yorkshire Coach Horse (described there as the "Regency Aston Martin" of horses, being particularly prized for its speed and stamina in the world of coaching) would cost between £500 - £700 each in the late 18th/early 19th century. These were especially expensive horses; the prices of other breeds are not given.

That same article also states,

Quote
With a team of four Yorkshire Coach horses, a coach could average ten miles an hour on the open road, while on the better stretches, a top speed of nearly twenty miles an hour, for short bursts, was possible. With a four-horse hitch, the trip between York and London was routinely accomplished in less than twenty-four hours. But to keep the York to London coaches moving at top speed and have enough horses for all the stages along the route, at least two hundred horses were needed, stabled at the various coaching inns along the Great North Road. Despite the fact that Yorkshire Coach horses, like their Cleveland Bay cousins, were very long-lived, most public coach horses lasted only about three years in service before they had to be retired. Therefore, the need for fresh horses to keep the coaches moving was never-ending.

This website, meanwhile, suggests 5mph as an average speed for stagecoaches.
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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #187 on: December 29, 2016, 10:27:17 PM »
According to Gail Thornton, a garden seat horse omnibus would have cost around £150 to build in 1881.
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Offline Vladki

Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #188 on: December 29, 2016, 11:38:51 PM »
I have found a book about Linz-Budweis horse railway (1830's) with quite a load of economic data. Would you be interested in that, even if the money used is Austrian Gulden?

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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #189 on: December 29, 2016, 11:39:47 PM »
I have found a book about Linz-Budweis horse railway (1830's) with quite a load of economic data. Would you be interested in that, even if the money used is Austrian Gulden?

Yes, there is no harm in having that; I cannot imagine that the costs, when converted, varied enormously between the UK and Austria in the 1830s.
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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #190 on: December 30, 2016, 01:08:00 AM »
According to the book "Fares, please!" by Stan Yorke (at p. 23), a 'bus horse would last about four years in service, and the horse omnibus itself would last about ten; but the wheels would need to be replaced 3-4 times during that period and the iron tyres every 3-4 months. Each horse 'bus would work around 60 miles a day.

Note that the figure of 4 years for 'bus horses is different to that of 3 years given above for coaching horses; it may well be that the draught horses could be longer in duty than the lighter coaching horses.

Edit: According to that same book at p. 11, a "good coach horse" would cost around £100 per year to keep (the exact date is not given, but it can be inferred from the context that it is referring to the period from around 1785-1830) if one had one's own stables, and twice that if one had to hire stabling facilities.

It is also there said that it is working at speed that tires a horse, and that a coach horse could work at speed for 14 miles a day for five days a week.

Edit 2: According to issue no. 31 of the Leyland magazine "Torque", in trials of steam powered lorries held in 1900, the Leyland entry ("B1" for the purposes of the trials; it is not clear what model that this was, but it was in a class with a maximum 3 ton tare weight and a load of 5 tons) carried an average payload of 4.81 tons at an average speed of 6 miles per hour over a distance of 167 miles, with coke consumed at an average of 12lbs per mile (the steam lorries seem to have used coke rather than ordinary coal).

Edit 3: According to "Leyland Toque" no. 35 (spring 2007 edition), the Leyland F2 wagon with "F1 engine" cost £546 to produce, and the "F2 engine" £580. This, presumably, was the cost to manufacture rather than the selling price.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2016, 05:45:14 PM by jamespetts »
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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #191 on: January 01, 2017, 05:38:24 PM »
According to the website Heritage Commercials, the Sentinel steam 'bus consumes 50 gallons of water and 110lb of coal for every 10 miles travelled, and can reach speeds of up to 40mph (although can run more sustainably at 25-30mph).

Although the steam 'bus was not a success and only four were ever built, three of which were exported to Czechoslovakia and one of which was used to transport the Sentinel works brass band, the 'bus consisted in effect of a passenger body on a lorry chassis, and the DG4 lorry was one of Sentinel's major types, and a type that we use in the pakset, so these speed and coal consumption figures should be useful for calibrating the steam lorries.
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Offline Vladki

Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #192 on: January 01, 2017, 08:12:51 PM »
According to the website Heritage Commercials, the Sentinel steam 'bus consumes 50 gallons of water and 110lb of coal for every 10 miles travelled, and can reach speeds of up to 40mph (although can run more sustainably at 25-30mph).

Although the steam 'bus was not a success and only four were ever built, three of which were exported to Czechoslovakia and one of which was used to transport the Sentinel works brass band, the 'bus consisted in effect of a passenger body on a lorry chassis, and the DG4 lorry was one of Sentinel's major types, and a type that we use in the pakset, so these speed and coal consumption figures should be useful for calibrating the steam lorries.

I found Czech page about Sentinels - they were licensed to Škoda, and many were built in Czechoslovakia. http://www.sentinel.cz/ The page is in czech only, but has a lot of photos (incl. blueprint) and the following tech specs:
power: 70 HP at 250 rpm, steam pressure 19 atmospheres
avg. speed: 25 km/h
water tank: 800 l
coal bunker: 300 kg
kerb weight: 7860 kg
cargo capacity: 5000 kg
reach with full tank: 40 km at avg speed 15 km/h (max 25 km/h)
max consumption per 1 km = 30 l of water and 4 kg of coal
prices around 1925: 100 kg of coal = 30 Kč, 1 l of gasoline = 3.40 Kč
running cost was about 1/3 of running cost of comparable gasoline powered lorry
Price of the Škoda-Sentinel lorry was 160000 Kč

Another article about sentinels, has a bit different numbers: http://www.starestroje.cz/historie/parni.vozidla.sentinel.php
It is article from 1923 about the imported sentinels from England (pictures are about rail cars, but text is mostly about lorries)
I admit that the article's language seems to be biased in favor of sentinels, so the comparison with gasoline lorry might not be trustworthy.

75 HP, 19 atm,
max speed 40 km/h
water tank 800 l
test ride: 62.1 km in 3h50min (2h30min without pauses), avg speed 24 km/h, max speed on flat terrain 35 km/h, weight 6t + load 7t + 15 pax, consumption 200 kg of coal, 700 l of water = 3.2 kg/km coal, 11.3 l/km water
revenue calculation and comparison with gasoline lorry:
price for delivering 100 kg of load 0.125 Kc/km
100 kg coal = 22 Kc, 100 kg gasoline = 300 Kc
sentinel load 7 t, 3 hours a day, 30 km/h, 300 working days/year = total income 236000 Kc/year. Running costs (driver + fireman wages, maintenance, oil, fuel, and 10% of purchase cost) are estimated at 98000 Kc/year
gasoline lorry load 4t, 4 hours a day, 20 km/h = estimated income 120000 Kc/year. Running costs (driver wages, maintenance, oil, fuel, 10% purchase) estimated at 83000 Kc/year

The last pat of the article is about steam powered passenger rail car - info taken from factory catalog.
comfortable capacity 60-80 pasengers
coal consumption (at full load) 4 lb/mile, 1.124 kg/km
water consumption (at full load) 2.5 gallons/mile, 5.64 l/km
avg consumption at flat track is 4-5 q (1q=100 lb?) per 120 miles (or 203-254 kg coal per 193 km)
max speed 40 mph, may be geared at 30 mph for extra power (hilly track) - 33 promile at 15 mph
recommended option for czechoslovakia was 17t, 75 HP, avg 40 km/h, 70 pax + 40 pax trailer
top speed on flat track 50 km/h, incline 10 promile 35 km/h, 20 promile at 20 km/h

revenue calculation:
half-full car (28 pax) - tickets cost 1 pence/mile (1 pence = 0.643 Kc), 150 miles/day, 300 days/year, total income 5250 pounds sterling (809812 Kc)
operating + maintenance costs 778 pounds/year, other costs 1472-2472 pounds/year = net revenue 2000-3000 pounds/year (310000-460000 Kc)
The author was very optimistic about possible imports of these. The reality was that Škoda made one (licenced) piece (class M220.0) that was in use 1925-1948. There were several other similar steam rail cars in use of other designs.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2017, 09:34:57 PM by Vladki »

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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #193 on: January 01, 2017, 09:41:42 PM »
Interesting - thank you very much. Have you any idea to which model of Sentinel steam lorry that those figures were referring? There were a great many different models all with quite different specifications.
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Offline Vladki

Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #194 on: January 01, 2017, 11:06:40 PM »
Interesting - thank you very much. Have you any idea to which model of Sentinel steam lorry that those figures were referring? There were a great many different models all with quite different specifications.

The first article is about Škoda-Sentinel (licensed version produced in Czechoslovakia)
The second article speaks about "Super-Sentinel". I have no idea if that is a specific model or not.

perhaps the allowed cargo capacity and engine power could be a lead to more specific model.

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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #195 on: January 01, 2017, 11:50:44 PM »
The Super Sentinel is indeed a specific model, an improved version from 1923 onwards. Might the first one be about Sentinel Standard, built from 1906 to 1924?
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Offline Vladki

Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #196 on: January 02, 2017, 07:47:27 AM »
The first link has a list of imported sentinels - both std and super models are there. Then there is also a list of sentinels manufactured by skoda, which does not specify std/super, only the load capacity. However the licenced production started in 1923. So they could produce both versions, or the licensed version might have had slightly different specs.

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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #197 on: January 02, 2017, 11:53:21 AM »
That would suggest that they were probably referring to the Super Sentinels. Thank you for that.

Edit: According to Brian T. Deans in, "Glasgow Trolleybuses", Glasgow's trolleybus system in 1950 was said to cost 18.7d (that is, 18.7 240ths of a £) per mile to operate, which was said to be the lowest of any form of transport in the country at the time.

Edit 2: The same volume gives a very interesting comparison of the relative costs of trolleybuses and motorbuses, and also of the increase in the cost of an identical motorbus over a few years in the mid 20th century. At p. 33, Deans refers to the cost of B. U. T. 30ft twin axle trolleybuses of the 9613T class ordered in the autumn of 1955 costing £6,016 each (being made up of £3,195 for the chassis and £2,821 for the body), the first Leyland Atlantean being purchased by the Glasgow Corporation, conversely, costing £6,100.

Meanwhile, on page 39, the cost in 1965 of a Leyland Atlantean is given as £7,000 each, and further states at that date that trolleybus services were costing 4 shillings and 7d per vehicle mile to run, as opposed to 3 shillings and 7d for motorbuses, although I presume that this is total cost including maintenance of the overhead wires.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2017, 01:54:19 PM by jamespetts »
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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #198 on: January 06, 2017, 12:36:02 AM »
According to the British Trolleybus Database, the AEC 661T type trolleybus supplied to Reading Corporation in 1938-9 cost £2,187 each and had backup battery power.
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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #199 on: January 15, 2017, 09:00:10 PM »
According to this in-depth article about the game "Mini-Metro", it is reported that (presumably as of around the present day, i.e. 2017) a single carriage for an underground railway costs about US$1,000,000, whereas the network itself costs US$0.5bn per km to construct. It seems sensible to infer that this refers to a double track section of subway, including stations, signals, track, etc., so it may be hard to extract the raw tunnel cost from this.
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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #200 on: January 28, 2017, 03:41:17 PM »
The following are all taken from "The London, Tilbury & Southend Railway: A history of the company and line: Volume 5" by Peter Kay
References to page numbers are references to numbers of pages in the work in question.
Scottish sea coal (i.e. a high grade coal) is reported to have cost 23s per ton (shipped to Tilbury) in 1875 (p. 336).

Tilbury station was improved in 1881-5 and teh following are the recorded costs of those works:

Waiting room and covered platforms: £845
New pier and waiting rooms: £1,461
New ferry landing £992 + £28
Additions to Tilbury station £953, £187, £389, £217, £246, £479
(These additions are not particularised and the different numbers relate to expenses incurred in different years)
(p. 336)

A hairpin shaped road bridge over the railway line at Tilbury was built in 1894 at a cost of £7,750 (a tender accepted from outside contractors; p. 338).

A new dock was built in Tilbury between 1904 and 1907, and the railway facilities upgraded at the same time.
£10,563 is recorded as the then estimated (1904) cost of pile foundations and a new station building, although it transpired that more expensive piles would be necessary in the event.
£3,296 was spent on a new road bridge under the concourse (1905).
£3,496 was spent on a new locomotive shed. (1905)
£1,500 was spent on an additional booking office at road level and goods store with office (1906)
£3,488 was spent on platform walls, awning foundations and luggage inclines (which might give a good idea of the cost of the "overall roof" type station in Pak128.Britain compared to normal platforms). (1906)
£16,460 was spent on the station buildings, concourse, platform awnings, stairs, etc. (1906)
£1,245 was spent on a new locomotive water tank house, offices and stores as well as foundations for a locomotive turntable (1906; this cost may well be considered together with the locomotive shed cost as the cost of a steam depot in the period)
New refreshment rooms cost £2,997 (1907).
(All from p. 341)

Tilbury Town station opened in 1886. Its costs are recorded as being £3,150 (this is particularised only into the sum of £395 in 1883, £54 in the second half of 1884 and £1,155 in the first half of 1885 as "works" and £341 in the 2nd half of 1885, £5,130 in the4 1st half of 1886, £2,576 in the 2nd half of 1886 and £436 in the 1st half of 1887 as "station, junctions and sidings"). (P. 380)

The entire Tilbury docks of 1882-6 is recorded as having cost £2,800,000 (p. 387)

An agreement between the L&TSR and the Dock Co. in 1883 provided that the former (railway company) was entitled to withdraw any of the otherwise agreed upon trains if it earned less than 2s 6d per train mile (p. 387).

The annual cost of engine drivers and fireman at Tilbury dock shed in 1897 was £694 and in 1923 £3,841. It is not immediately clear to what extent this was due to inflation and to what extent due to employing a larger number of people, although the preceding paragraphs to the part where this figure is mentioned states that six locomotives were allocated in 1886, increasing to 9 by the Port of London Authority takeover, the date of which should be in the book somewhere but I cannot immediately find. The cost of foreman, head shunters, shunters, signalmen, checkers number takers and messengers at Tilbury dock (as paid for by the railway company rather than the dock company( in 1923 was £5,232 (p. 397).

Tilbury's container terminal (i.e. just the rail facilities, not the dock itself) opened in 1969 at a cost of around £500,000 (p. 404).

An additional chord (presumably of double track) including junctions and presumably updating signalling equipment was installed in 1927 at a cost of £1,550.

Ships for a Tilbury to Dunkirk passenger service purchased in 1927 jointly by the LMS and a shipping concern (which were secondhand, having been built in 1904-9 and which were between 2.039 tons and 1,569 tons) were priced at between £45,000 and £75,000 in an agreement which tied the price to the level of traffic (in the event, the service was abandoned entirely owing to lack of traffic and the purchases never completed) (p. 411).

The following are all taken from "The History of British Bus Services" by John Hibbs
References to page numbers are references to numbers of pages in the work in question.

Between 1875 and 1880, the London General Omnibus company, then still a horse 'bus concern, paid a dividend of about 12 percent; the North Metropolitan (a horse tramway concern in London) paid about 8 1/2% and "remained profitable largely because of falling prices for fodder" in the latter quarter of the 19th century. (p. 37).

Omnibus pioneer Thomas Tilling's father set up a horse omnibus concern in 1847 with a grey mare called "Kitty" and a carriage which cost him £30 (it is not immediately clear from the text whether the carriage alone or the horse and carriage combined cost this amount) (p. 51).

In the early days of motor 'bus traction, rubber tyres were very expensive to maintain; however, by 1905, the price had been brought down to about 2d/mile (p. 52). In 1902, this cost had been as high as 10d per mile (p. 130).

The "B-type" motor omnubus cost "well under £300 to produce", which was significantly less than others of the day (p. 57). The author describes this price as "bringing motor-bus operation into the realms of solvency" (p. 57).

The Dailmer motor omnibus of circa 1912, said to be superior to the B-type, sold for £875 (p. 59). The large discrepancy with the B-type might be explained in part because this is a sale price, whereas the cost of the B-type is the cost to produce, as the LGOC initially made their own 'buses until that operation was separated into a company that became AEC.

In circa 1907, the Tramways (MET) Omnibus Company Ltd. of London negotiated a maintenance contract covering labour, materials, petrol and lubrication at a charge of 3 1/2d per mile (p. 60).

Diesel engines are said to be more reliable than petrol engines, but have a higher initial cost (p. 148).

It is said that the tendency in 'bus design since the 1960s (the book being written in the 1980s) had been towards more sophistication at a greater first cost and higher maintenance (p. 158).

When the councils of some municipalities in North-West England merged in 1967, the working expenses per 'bus mile were said to be 38.85d at Ramsbottom with 12 vehicles, comparing with 42.247d in Manchester. This appears to include overheads, however, but this is not clear (p. 249).

The following are all taken from "The British Motor-Bus: an illustrated history" by Gavin Booth
References to page numbers are references to numbers of pages in the work in question.

The Bedford OWB of 1942/3, a single decker 32 seater wartime "utility" 'bus cost £810 (p. 63).

New tram cars in around the 1950s were said to have cost on average around £10,000 (presumably, these were the modern, comfortable tram cars of the type first developed in the 1930s), whereas new motor 'buses of the time were said to cost on average around £4,000, explaining in part the reason for the relative popularity of the latter over the former at the time (p. 73).

The "business commuter" version of the Leyland National was introduced in 1972 and cost £20,000 each (p. 102).
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 04:54:45 PM by jamespetts »
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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #201 on: February 08, 2017, 01:59:29 PM »
According to the narration on this video at 2:45, the Leyland Panther cost "just over £7,000" in 1970.
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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #202 on: February 11, 2017, 02:14:05 PM »
According to "A History of the Leyland Bus" by Ron Phillips, many Leyland Titan PD3 double decker 'buses had their petrol engines upgraded for diesel engines "in the 1930s" at a cost of "about £450". This was on the basis that Leyland would retain the old petrol engines, which it would recondition for further use (p. 48).

In the same work at p. 34, it is stated that the Leyland Cub with a diesel engine cost £135 more than that with the petrol engine in 1933.

According to "An Illustrated History of Dennis Buses and Trucks" by Nick Baldwin, an advertising van (which appears to have been of similar dimensions to the smallest size of vans based on private car chassis) cost £305 for a chassis plus £36 for Dunlop tyres and £40 for a standard body in about 1908. This was a 14hp 8/10cwt chassis (p. 15).

In the same work, a 28hp motor 'bus of 1904 (seating about 32 people) cost £715 "plus lettering" (page 9).

That book also reproduces advertisements for Dennis commercial vehicles, including a 40hp 4-5ton chassis complete with body (being a tipper wagon) capable of 12mph "over hilly country" with a 40hp engine and claiming 41.75 gross tons per mile per gallon of paraffin at £800 and an open backed van "built to carry 2 tons over sand" for £590. Both of these were intended to run on paraffin, but the capital cost would probably have been not much different from petrol. Paraffin may be more energy dense than petrol, however, so the economy figures may require some caution.
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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #203 on: February 15, 2017, 01:21:07 AM »
This website gives some very interesting information about the relative costs of minibuses compared to conventional 'buses (in the 1980s).

Because these were small vehicles, cheaper drivers could be employed to drive them, and they cost 38% less than 'bus drivers qualified to drive full sized 'buses. The 'buses, apparently (Ford Transit vehicles) were depreciated over a period of 5 years (suggesting that they last far less long than a full sized 'bus).

Interestingly, I remember these minibuses well: as a child, my grandparents used to live in Exeter, and I remember fondly the green minibuses that went past the end of their road and which my grandmother frequently rode into town.
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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #204 on: February 18, 2017, 04:45:57 PM »
The following information is given from "The illustrated history of Dennis buses and trucks" by Nick Baldwin

  • 2-2.5 ton goods chassis and 20-25 passenger 'bus chassis (note: not including body) were sold by Dennis in 1920 for £1,000 apiece (p. 26).
  • A 20/25cwt light lorry/van chassis sold by Dennis in 1923 with a 34bhp engine sold for £295, which was about £50 cheaper than rival Vulcan and Guy models (p. 29).
  • The Dennis F-type 'bus, introduced in 1927, and being very similar to the E-type except for being normal control rather than forward control, was advertised for £885 (chassis only) with a 70bhp engine (p. 36)
  • The Dennis two ton goods lorry and its "GL" passenger counterpart of 1929 cost £420 chassis only and could acheive an average of 15-16mpg when laden with a 42bhp engine (p. 45).
  • The 32 seat 'bus, the Arrow, launched in 1929 with a 100hp six cylinder petrol engine costing £1,100 only for the chassis (apparently comparable with the contemporary AEC Reliance). This was said to have been 6cwt lighter but "more expensive" than the EV 'bus. (p. 48).
  • The "simple and robust" EV 'bus chassis cost " a little under £900" (p. 61) and apparently sold better than the "sophisticated" Arrow (p. 61).
  • The Lancet of "late 1931" sold for only £595 (chassis only) (p. 61).
  • The Lancet's engine, the D3 5.6 litre petrol engine, could achieve 11mpg when laden and could produce 85hp (p. 62).
  • The Arrow's 6-cylinder engine could be fitted to the Lancet at an additional cost of £100 (p. 62).
  • The 40/45cwt goods and Ace 20 passenger chassis (sometimes known as the "Flying Pig" because of its tapered "snout" for the engine) of the early 1930s cost £260 (goods) and £285 (passenger) compared with £245 for a 3 ton Bedford. The Dennis was powered by a 60bhp petrol engine with coil ignition. Apparently, a magneto could be specified for an additional £12, although it is not clear what the benefit of this was (p. 68).
  • The Lancet II 'bus chassis of "late 1935", which could accommodate a body taking up to 39 passengers was powered by a new 4 cylinder petrol engine capable of 17mpg.  A Gardner 5LW diesel engine was also available for this chassis, but the presumably greater cost of this is not given (p. 76).
  • The Dennis Maxim goods vehicles of 1964 cost £3,290 for the chassis plus £320 for a fibreglass cab (p. 110).
« Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 04:56:09 PM by jamespetts »
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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #205 on: February 20, 2017, 10:36:50 PM »
According to the manufacturer's official specifications, a modern railway diesel multiple unit designed for high speed inter-urban service (the Class 185) has a design life of 35 years at 350,000km/year.
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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #206 on: February 25, 2017, 07:36:03 PM »
According to this website, the Wright Electrocity 'bus costs £205,000 to purchase and £75,000 per annum to run (although it does not specify what degree of use that the latter assumes).

However, the website appears to be part of the "London Bus Tender Game", so it is not clear to what extent that the information as to prices is derived from reality.
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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #207 on: February 26, 2017, 11:58:14 PM »
According to this video from the manufacturer, the new (post-2015) Dennis Enviro200 has improvements in fuel economy "as high as 35%". These figures may be on the optimistic side, however, coming as they do from the manufacturer.
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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #208 on: March 25, 2017, 10:29:39 AM »
According to this website, the Guy ONB 'bus, a small 20 seater introduced in 1928, cost £445 chassis only.

I also recall, although I cannot remember the reference, that the large Guy CX 6-wheeler from circa 1926 had a fuel economy of 4mpg in service.
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Re: A snippet of relative pricing information
« Reply #209 on: April 08, 2017, 09:17:09 PM »
Having visited the London 'Bus Museum to-day, I was informed by one of the curators that the Routemaster and contemporary 'buses could do approximately 8-10mpg, modern 'buses only manage 6-7mpg because of their higher weight (but note that modern 'buses have a higher capacity), and that old petrol engined 'buses could only manage 4mpg. I assume that these are figures for double decker 'buses, as lighter single deckers might have been able to manage a bit more.
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