Author Topic: Simutrans on Steam  (Read 15167 times)

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Offline sdog

Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2015, 03:58:23 PM »
It is interesting to see that this time there is no opposition on fundamental grounds, but very real practical concerns.

As it is now, I can hardly see that the active community has enough time or commitment to deal with the many tasks.

In its present form simutrans has too many rough edges that would cause much h grief to both steam players and simutrans devotees. I think with a converted effort those could be dealt with, however, not effortlessly. This would also require to review some things that are in place for s long time. The development cycle, pak maintenance, equal treatment of paks, the documentation wiki, the translation site, devotee activity.

On the tech side, will the dev team be able to keep versions for all three oses current and working? Can it be asked of then to spend their volunteered time to do those boring tasks?

Is there a courses of action that doesn't plunge one into the water, but allows to prepare for this. I know that the greenlight process does that in part. But it also starts the clock.

Is simutrans even the right choice for steam, do players who install free games want quick fun or are they willing to learn a game? If there were a significant number of the latter, the gain for simutrans could be quite large.



Balancing the large paksets pak64 and pak128 is now extremely difficult. The way to go would be a reductionist pak based in either. Reducing the track and vehicle options, different good types, extra player buildings, vehicle categories. (eg Trolley bus, mono rail, tram, maglev) for easy maintenance and an easy start. Also fewer traffic signs and signals. Otherwise help files are nearly impossible to maintain.

Then define that as the default pak.

Other paks can be loaded through DLC or steam works. They are a secondary concern.

tl;dr Give players a pak to start that works, is maintainable, and reduces clutter and unneeded complexity.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2015, 03:47:16 PM by Isaac.Eiland-Hall »

Offline HaydenRead

Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2015, 06:10:34 PM »
I think including multiple paks would be a very good step - since that's a basic part of how Simutrans works.
The idea is to include multiple/all paks as free DLC, however on Steam, a Pak would need to be included by default, as users expect to be able to play the game without installing any additional DLC.

Is there a courses of action that doesn't plunge one into the water, but allows to prepare for this. I know that the greenlight process does that in part. But it also starts the clock.

Is simutrans even the right choice for steam, do players who install free games want quick fun or are they willing to learn a game? If there were a significant number of the latter, the gain for simutrans could be quite large.
Yes Greenlight does seem to start the clock, however there is no time requirement between being approved on Greenlight and actual publishing on Steam.
In regards to players who install free games, some do just want quick fun, others are willing to learn a game, but with it being a free game, those that just want quick fun would just remove it if it does not provide what they want.

Balancing the large paksets pak64 and pak128 is now extremely difficult. The way to go would be a reductionist pak based in either. Reducing the track and vehicle options, different good types, extra player buildings, vehicle categories. (eg Trolley bus, mono rail, tram, maglev) for easy maintenance and an easy start. Also fewer traffic signs and signals. Otherwise help files are nearly impossible to maintain.
I think that for Greenlight I will make the video highlight the existence of multiple Pak's, and create a manual based off either Pak64 or Pak128, or both, or based on a Reduced Pak... It may be good to create a manual focusing on 2 Pak sets to highlight that there are differences between both Graphics & Gameplay with different Pak sets.

Looking over previous comments, adding Pak 64 or a derivative as the default may be best, as it is a small initial size, and users that want other versions can download the additional DLC's.

Offline An_dz

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Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2015, 08:22:31 PM »
Only because that is suggested in the old threads, that have not been updated.
It's one demographic, not the only one to be looked at.

We get donations and pay a third party company to write us a manual. ;D ;D Hahahaha
No way. You still have to do all the hard work to provide them with all the info text and screenshots etc.

They just make it look pretty and charge you a fortune for that.
It was a joke.

Offline prissi

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Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2015, 08:36:47 PM »
Well there are some costs on hosting, as pointed out. The domains are about 15 GBP/year, the list server is 12 EUR/year, the german forum is 8 EUR/month (maybe that is too expensive compared to the rest ... ), and of course there is Issacs server.

About the installer:
I did not uncheck anything.  You get :
Pak  (64)
Pak128
Pak128.Britain
Pak48.Excentrique
Those pak sets which are installed and have a revision number in the copyright line are automatically selected and checked for an update.

Offline HaydenRead

Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #39 on: December 13, 2015, 08:58:09 PM »
All ready to go... Do I hit publish (to Greenlight)?

The video has now been moved to its own thread

Once published it will be available for users to vote on, then when it gets enough votes, the option to Publish on Steam will become available.

As previously discussed, it would not be published on Steam (only on Greenlight), until the following issues are resolved:
  • Decision over default Pak set to include - Currently seems to be fluctuating between Pak64, Pak128, and a simplified version of one of these Paks
  • Up to date Manual written - Based off the included Pak Set (see above)
  • Decision over what Forum (if any) to direct users to
Decisions that can be made after it is published to Steam:
  • Offering of a Donation DLC, the funds from which would go to Simutrans related Servers & Services
  • Offering of a Subscription DLC for hosting of a Simutrans Server - Similar to what is offered in this forum topic.
  • Any other options involving any charges
Also, need to know who else would be interested in being marked as a 'Contributor' on Steam (has the ability to update various details, see stats relating to Greenlight, and once published, will have access to update the packages, view Financial details (if any), and access other data around the submission). Possibly the best way to do that may be to PM your Steam Account Name to be added as a Contributor.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2015, 10:47:20 PM by HaydenRead »

Offline jamespetts

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Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2015, 09:03:00 PM »
Out of interest, what screen recording software did you use to make that video?
Download Simutrans-Extended.

Want to help with development? See here for things to do for coding, and here for information on how to make graphics/objects.

Follow Simutrans-Extended on Facebook.

Offline HaydenRead

Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2015, 09:07:44 PM »
Out of interest, what screen recording software did you use to make that video?
Open Broadcaster Software for the Screen Capture.
Sony Movie Studio 13 Platinum (Steam Edition) for editing the Video.

Offline Sarlock

Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2015, 09:10:34 PM »
I wonder if it's worthwhile including both pak64 and pak128.  The size of the download isn't that big of a deal compared to the size of many game downloads on Steam.  This allows the new players exposure to the concept of multiple paksets and the differences between the two... it also allows a performance choice if pak64 runs smoother for them on an older system.

Great video.  I would love to see some close-up shots of trains zooming along at some point in it and an underground slice view of a subway.
Current projects: Pak128 Trees, blender graphics

Offline Ters

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Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2015, 09:56:57 PM »
it also allows a performance choice if pak64 runs smoother for them on an older system.

Actually, pak128 may be the fastest, due to there being fewer, but larger, images on screen at any given time. The key is the amount of RAM, since pak128 appears to need 20 times more memory. Pak128 probably needs 1 GB RAM, or it will have to swap to disk a lot. Most people probably use Steam for games requiring more RAM than that.

Offline isidoro

Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #44 on: December 14, 2015, 12:10:17 AM »
I've been followed the discussion so far but I don't have a clear opinion about what's best: publish or not.

My main concerns are:
  • Money...  that can lead to problems
  • Support: who will do the work?
  • Commitment: HaydenRead is a new member, unknown to us.  He can be very keen on all the business now, but will he be in two months' time?
  • Rollback: and if all this doesn't work in the future, is there a way back?  Can you happily and easily "unsubscribe" the game from Steam?
Nonetheless, I think that the video can be improved very much.  The fonts are poor, the zoom doesn't get the best of the game and is very static.  Some stills could be used (for instance from the Monthly Contest).  Some options like slice views, tunnels, time periods, all means of transportation aren't shown.

Competitive features that make ST better than other similar games aren't mentioned either: really big maps, realistic maps, simulation depth (industry contracts), etc.

I like the game very much, but watching the video I don't find it appealing.  I guess that a potential new player won't find it either.  If this and other aspects aren't polished, I wouldn't really call for a poll in Greenlight.

Offline Yona-TYT

Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #45 on: December 14, 2015, 12:47:15 AM »
I agree with Isidoro, the video does not get the best of simutrans.
There is much to polish in that regard.  :police:

And this is where the community comes in, to help improve details. ;)

Offline HaydenRead

Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #46 on: December 14, 2015, 01:16:06 AM »
I've been followed the discussion so far but I don't have a clear opinion about what's best: publish or not.

My main concerns are:
  • Money...  that can lead to problems
  • Support: who will do the work?
  • Commitment: HaydenRead is a new member, unknown to us.  He can be very keen on all the business now, but will he be in two months' time?
  • Rollback: and if all this doesn't work in the future, is there a way back?  Can you happily and easily "unsubscribe" the game from Steam?
  • This is the reason that I stated that there would be no charges (initially at least until / unless there was strong support from the community
  • As noted, it is hoped that an up to date manual will reduce support issues, and it still needs to be decided if there should be separate forums for the Steam version (which would need to be decided before it was published on Steam).
  • I understand concerns about commitment, and if it would make everyone feel better / safer, I don't mind putting the idea of having Simutrans on Steam on hold, and re-addressing latter when I have more of a history on the forums.
  • Rollback - during the Greenlight process it is very easy to remove the game, and remains easy to do up until it is published for download on Steam. Once it is published for download on Steam, it can be unpublished (which means new people cannot download it), but people who have already installed the game will still be able to install whatever the last version uploaded was.
Nonetheless, I think that the video can be improved very much.  The fonts are poor, the zoom doesn't get the best of the game and is very static.  Some stills could be used (for instance from the Monthly Contest).  Some options like slice views, tunnels, time periods, all means of transportation aren't shown.

Competitive features that make ST better than other similar games aren't mentioned either: really big maps, realistic maps, simulation depth (industry contracts), etc.

I like the game very much, but watching the video I don't find it appealing.  I guess that a potential new player won't find it either.  If this and other aspects aren't polished, I wouldn't really call for a poll in Greenlight.
And this is where the community comes in, to help improve details. ;)
Great video.  I would love to see some close-up shots of trains zooming along at some point in it and an underground slice view of a subway.
I agree that the video needs to be altered, and additional information and features added, which was one of the reasons I posted it here first, so I could get suggestions for improving the video.
I do agree that adding some stills, varying zoom levels, slice views, and additional modes of transportation would improve the video, along with a highlight of the other features you have mentioned, and I will work on updating the video over the following week.

Also for comment... The Below is the proposed description on Steam
Simutrans is an open-source transportation simulation game available for Windows, Mac, and Linux. Your goal is to establish a successful transport company and build the necessary infrastructure to transport passengers, mail and goods between cities, factories and touristic attractions by land, air and water.

  • Establish a successful transport company
  • Transport passengers, mail and goods by land, air and water
  • Interconnect cities, districts, public buildings, industries and tourist attractions
  • Control and watch your finances and the traffic of your vehicles and goods
  • Lots of graphics packages to choose from
  • Play with people from anywhere in the world in online games
Multiple Choices
  • Graphics Packages (Paksets)
    In Simutrans you have multiple choices from the start to the end. Even before starting the game you have lots of graphics packages to choose from, every pakset giving you a different experience and style of play.
  • Vehicles and Cargo
    The success of your company will depend on good planning, and we give you the tools for it. Simutrans can have buses, trucks, trains, trams, ships, aireplanes, monorails, maglevs and any other vehicle that goes through air, land or water. Choose them wisely and transport the immense variety of cargo each pakset has to offer, from passengers and mail to raw materials and consumer products.
Dynamic and Intelligent
  • Cargo has Destinations
    Simutrans citizens and products don't simply jump in your vehicles and go to wherever you send them. They actually have individual destinations: people want to check out attractions, go shopping, or visit friends. Products too have their destinations - factories have contracts with each other and they won't sell or buy from anyone else. If you don't give them the possibility to go where they want, they simply don't use your transport company.
  • Complete the Chain
    Transporting products not only gives you money, but makes the economy roll. As you transport products between factories, they start producing and selling. Every factory receiving the materials it needs starts producing new goods letting you connect more and more factories across the region.
  • Influencing Cities
    Your transportation affects city growth. Every unit of anything you transport will affect the nearby cities making them grow and prosper. Sometimes cities will create new attractions and places of interest, which attract a lot more passengers. Or maybe your service may attract new industries, that give you even more opportunities. But not everything you do leads to good things - as cities grow more cars are on the roads, and you will end up trying to deal with the traffic. What you do shapes the future.
Control and Customize
  • Confiure All or Nothing
    Simutrans has a lot of configurations that you can customize. If you're not a customization freak, don't worry, generally with a few options Simutrans will fit your play style. But if you are, you'll enjoy all the options and ways to change the game.
  • Build Your World
    When you create a new game, don't expect it to be a fixed world. You can shape the world to suit your needs, add new roads, factories, houses, and buildings, raise and lower the terrain, create rivers, lakes, and seas, or beautify the world by planting trees.
How You Play
  • Multiplayer
    Tired of playing alone? Simutrans lets you play multiplayer. You can join a public server and compete and collaborate with people around the world, or you can create a private server and play with your friends or even play through a LAN network.
  • Hardcore or Casual?
    You can challenge yourself in a normal game, trying to make your company successful and rich. Or you can just relax and have some fun playing with no hurry or money, just for your enjoyment and the satisfaction of transporting everything.
Cost
This game will be Free on Steam.

History of Simutrans
Simutrans is an Open Source game devloped under the Artistic License.
This game was originally devloped by Hj. Malthaner from 1997 till 2004, before being handed over the 'The Simutrans Team' in 2005. Since that time it has continued to be upgraded and updated.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2015, 01:39:18 AM by HaydenRead »

Offline Yona-TYT

Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #47 on: December 14, 2015, 01:34:28 AM »
It would be nice to create a separate topic to discuss the video.

Offline An_dz

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Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #48 on: December 14, 2015, 03:46:05 AM »
It would be nice to create a separate topic to discuss the video.
I agree, I can think of some ideas to make the video more 'commercial'.

About the description text I see you got some text from the website, but they are not that good, they were created by many non-native English speakers. I created and changed some of them too. Since my English is better now, here are some suggestions for making the description better. I highlighted the changes.

  • Graphics Packages (Paksets)
    In Simutrans you have multiple choices from the beginning to the end. Even before starting the game you have lots of graphics packages to choose from, every pakset giving you a different experience and play style.
  • Vehicles and Cargo
    The success of your company will depend on good planning, and we give you the tools for it. Simutrans can have buses, trucks, trains, trams, ships, airplanes, monorails, maglevs and any other vehicle that goes through air, land or water. Choose them wisely and transport the immense variety of cargo each pakset has to offer, from passengers and mail to raw materials and consumer products.

  • Cargo has Destinations
    Simutrans citizens and products don't simply jump in your vehicles and go to wherever you send them. They actually have individual destinations: people want to check out attractions, go shopping, or visit friends. Products also have their destinations - factories have contracts with each other and they won't sell or buy from anyone else. If you don't give them the possibility to go where they want, they simply won't use your transport company.

  • Configure All or Nothing
    Simutrans has a lot of configurations that you can customize. If you're not a customization freak, don't worry, generally with a few options Simutrans will fit your play style. But if you are, you'll enjoy all the options and ways to change the game.
  • Build Your World
    When you create a new game, don't expect it to be a fixed world. You can shape the world to suit your needs, build[/b] new roads, factories, houses, and buildings, raise and lower the terrain, create rivers, lakes, and seas, or beautify the world by planting trees.

  • Multiplayer
    Tired of playing alone? Simutrans lets you play multiplayer. You can join a public server and compete and collaborate with people all around the world. You can also play with your friends creating a private online or LAN server.

  • History of Simutrans
    Simutrans is an Open Source game developed under the Artistic License.
    This game was originally developed by Hansjörg Malthaner from 1997 till 2004, before being handed over to the 'The Simutrans Team' in 2005. Since the beginning it has been upgraded and updated.

Offline HaydenRead

Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #49 on: December 14, 2015, 07:24:36 PM »
It would be nice to create a separate topic to discuss the video.
I agree, I can think of some ideas to make the video more 'commercial'.
I have created a new version of the video, incorporating the feedback already received, and have posted it to a new thread

About the description text I see you got some text from the website, but they are not that good, they were created by many non-native English speakers. I created and changed some of them too. Since my English is better now, here are some suggestions for making the description better. I highlighted the changes.
Thanks for the suggestions, I forgot to proofread it before posting, and as you noted a lot of it was copied and pasted from other locations on the site.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2015, 10:48:28 PM by HaydenRead »

Offline Yona-TYT

Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #50 on: December 16, 2015, 03:43:33 AM »
I think we should seriously consider creating a Scenario Tutorial.

I speak of a Scenario that explains step by step using the basic tools of building area and how to create a basic network of transport.

This is very important because many players do not even like to read the manuals and simplemete are thrown directly to the game.

I think if we are going to bring our Simutrans to Steam, we will need a good tutorial.

Offline prissi

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Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #51 on: December 16, 2015, 08:50:12 PM »
There is a (partly working) scenario tutorial: http://www.simutrans-forum.de/forum/index.php?page=Attachment&attachmentID=21028 Please test and extend!

Offline HaydenRead

Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #52 on: December 16, 2015, 10:59:54 PM »
I think we should seriously consider creating a Scenario Tutorial.

I speak of a Scenario that explains step by step using the basic tools of building area and how to create a basic network of transport.

This is very important because many players do not even like to read the manuals and simplemete are thrown directly to the game.

I think if we are going to bring our Simutrans to Steam, we will need a good tutorial.
There is a (partly working) scenario tutorial: http://www.simutrans-forum.de/forum/index.php?page=Attachment&attachmentID=21028 Please test and extend!
Thanks for the link, I have taken a quick look at it (after running the files through Google Translator to get it to english).
I do think a Tutorial Scenario is a really good idea, and am looking at developing one based on Pak128 (as opposed to the linked one based on Pak64). The reason for this, is to include the issues around 'half height' building of Tunnels, Bridges, etc into the tutorial.

Was thinking of allowing users to jump to various 'sections' with sections detailed as below
  • Road - As it seems easiest and there is normally roading already built on the map at the beginning of a game.
  • Rail / Trams / light rail / Monorail - Build upon some of the issues covered under roading.
  • Shipping - Details of the various water related tools and options
  • Airports - Details of building runways, taxi ways, and related infrastructure
Items to cover would include:
  • The depot, and various stop types. (All modes of transportation)
  • The various signs & signals. (land and air - I don't think Shipping has any Signs/Signals)
  • The concept of half-height and double height slopes, elevations, bridges, and tunnels. (land based transport only)

Offline Yona-TYT

Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #53 on: December 16, 2015, 11:52:16 PM »

There is a (partly working) scenario tutorial: http://www.simutrans-forum.de/forum/index.php?page=Attachment&attachmentID=21028 Please test and extend!

A very Important point in Simutrans is the large number of tools, a novice player will feel a little lost When choosing any.
 It would be nice to have idicadores to help them move Through the different menus and tools.

It would be very useful to have something like this in the tutorial. ;)

Offline sdog

Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #54 on: December 17, 2015, 03:10:18 AM »
A very Important point in Simutrans is the large number of tools, a novice player will feel a little lost When choosing any.
 It would be nice to have idicadores to help them move Through the different menus and tools.

It would be very useful to have something like this in the tutorial. ;)

This is a very good point. In particular for pak128, which has an incredibly large number of rail and road types for different speed, and associated bridges and elevated ways. (This was one of the main reasons I suggested a minimalist pak-set.)

Offline Yona-TYT

Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #55 on: December 17, 2015, 03:33:25 AM »

Another interesting idea would show as we go along in the tutorial, some examples of how to use the tools of construction. This can be done with a popup window that displays moving images.


I hope not to make life difficult for Prissi with this. :o




Edit
Quote
Issues with new players flooding forums - Increase documentation (create Manual), possibly create separate support forum for Steam?

Moreover, these ideas contribute in good shape to reduce these basic questions in the forum.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 04:00:22 AM by Yona-TYT »

Offline DrSuperGood

Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #56 on: December 17, 2015, 05:46:14 AM »
The problem is pak128 has a large number of ways which are not really useful. The early (1940) fast ones are intended for user made fast convoys which are not part of the pakset. As such you have ways with a speed limit which nothing can use for 10+ game years. The very definition of UI clutter.

Pak64 suffers a similar issue with a lack of retirement for some convoys. For example you are shown 3 waste convoys for use on road ways at the end but only the most recent one is useful since it is statistically better than the other two in every way that matters. A similar case applies to the goods wagons where some early ones still exist at the end of the timeline despite the special packaged goods transporter being faster, cheaper and self powering.

Generally if something is on the UI, it should have a purpose. Giving the player 3 choices, of which 2 are fake due to being useless is not good design.

One way to declutter the UI would be to redesign how stop extensions work. Currently all variants are shown next to each other. A well designed pakset could have 12+ variants, each appropriate for different kinds of freight. They could also be scattered all over the place such as some station buildings in the rail section, some airport buildings in the airport section and some miscellaneous ones in the others section. These could all be moved to a special "stop extension" menu.

Also some form of intelligent construction tools for stops would be useful. Although placement is still manual, the selection of what type of stop or stop extension to use is automatic. For example you could select the desired size of stop or stop extension and it could automatically find you the closest one to what you want, and even match up with the sorts of cargo running through the station (eg choosing oil tanks over warehouses if a lot of oil runs through the stop). Such tools could be available for the different cargo types, such as passengers, mail, both, or goods. It also opens up the potential for people to customize the size and cost of their stop extensions, so that they could have extra capacity if they need so without having to build so spread out.

Offline Ters

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Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #57 on: December 17, 2015, 05:57:41 AM »
Pak64 suffers a similar issue with a lack of retirement for some convoys. For example you are shown 3 waste convoys for use on road ways at the end but only the most recent one is useful since it is statistically better than the other two in every way that matters.

I find it strange that waste is part of pak64, while food is an add-on. On the other hand, I have yet to see waste chains develop in a game at all, so I just have the vehicles, all of which are useless.

Offline DrSuperGood

Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #58 on: December 17, 2015, 01:58:45 PM »
Quote
I find it strange that waste is part of pak64, while food is an add-on. On the other hand, I have yet to see waste chains develop in a game at all, so I just have the vehicles, all of which are useless.
I often develop waste just to spam the roads full of convoys. Since it does not have speed bonus there is no penalty from driving through cities and the convoys always make a profit, even if very little. That said waste should probably be balanced a bit to earn more money. It should be the easiest freight to transport but least profitable however it should still make some profit worth mentioning.

Food is probably still an addon as it is lacking a lot of vehicles. Specifically vehicles for transporting frozen goods.

Offline Ters

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Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #59 on: December 17, 2015, 05:31:45 PM »
Food is probably still an addon as it is lacking a lot of vehicles. Specifically vehicles for transporting frozen goods.

Frozen goods and milk is the only one that can lack vehicles, as the rest use standard vehicles shared with the rest of pak64. And frozen goods and milk is not much worse than paper or cars in the full pak set.

Offline HaydenRead

Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #60 on: December 17, 2015, 08:31:48 PM »
Another interesting idea would show as we go along in the tutorial, some examples of how to use the tools of construction. This can be done with a popup window that displays moving images.


I hope not to make life difficult for Prissi with this. :o
Another option (rather than moving images) would be if the <img src=""> tag could be used to load in images to the description for the scenario's (limited in size (possibly 256x256), and possibly limited in format (PNG possibly)). I have started looking through the code to see if this is something I could create a patch for (so far located where it processes the href attribute and am taking a look to see how it handles it and if inserting images may be possible).

I am beginning to think that I need to focus on one area at a time (currently looking at code, started writing an up to date manual, looking at coding a tutorial, and working on a promo video...). However adding code for images in text areas would help with the tutorial, and referencing between the manual and tutorial would make both stronger, and the first step of getting the game on Steam is a good promotional video...

Offline Yona-TYT

Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #61 on: December 20, 2015, 12:06:21 AM »
This is a small example.  ;)



Offline prissi

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Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #62 on: December 20, 2015, 10:14:16 PM »
My priority would be a working tutorial; you can leave it to the user, or even check the tool selection and give hints. ("No, further down the tools", "getting closer ...", "Yes, great. Now ...") That is even better than an image, which might change at the next big revision again.

Offline HaydenRead

Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #63 on: December 20, 2015, 11:05:00 PM »
My priority would be a working tutorial; you can leave it to the user, or even check the tool selection and give hints. ("No, further down the tools", "getting closer ...", "Yes, great. Now ...") That is even better than an image, which might change at the next big revision again.
I am starting work on a tutorial now. Placing labels when a user seems to be 'struggling' to find the right place to put things... I will also look at messages around tool selection.

Another issue I was just looking at is Translations.
I was looking at listing languages as:
English, Czech, Danish, Dutch, Finnish, French, German, Hungarian, Italian, Japanese, Korean, Polish, Romanian, Russian, Spanish, Swedish, Traditional Chinese, Turkish, Norwegian, Portuguese, Ukrainian (as those were the options I was given when I first ran the game).
But just took a look at SimuTranslator and realised that alot has not been translated.

If we just go with listing languages with at least:
80% translation of the Base Texts, Help files, and pak128, we get Czech, and English.
70% translation of the Base Texts, Help files, and pak128, we get Czech, English and Spanish.
60% translation of the Base Texts, Help files, and pak128, we get Czech, English, German, and Spanish.

If we just go with Base Texts, and Help files, and ignore any given pak set we get:
90% Czech, English, and German
80% Czech, English, German, and Portuguese
70% Czech, English, German, Portuguese, and Spanish
If we do go with this option, possibly pak64 should be used as it has a high level of translation for these languages, or alter the pak that is included by default, based on language...

I was thinking of placing something like this near the end of the description:
Languages
Simutrans offers a range of languages, translated on a volunteer basis. Languages will be listed on the steam page when they reach at least 80% translation of Base Texts, Help Files, and 70% translation of pak128.

Also, with the video sorted do I publish the game on Greenlight to start the process rolling while working on the Manual & Tutorial?

Edit
Separate Topic now created in Patches forum

In regards to including the '<img src="" />' tag, I have created a patch file that will allow embedding of .bmp files (With no encoding, RLE8, or BITFIELDS encoding, and a range of color formats).
It searches scenario folder first, then pak folder, then application folder for the image requested.

It is definitely a hack at the moment, and I will be working on cleaning it up and commenting the code.
I am also looking at the possibility of loading (as an example) img0.bmp img1.bmp img2.bmp at timed intervals to give an effect similar to Yona-TYT's suggestion.

Issues with it at the moment (apart from lack of comments) include the fact that it reloads the image each time the dialog is closed and reopened, and never frees the image, and I have not yet checked through for other memory leaks.

NOW PUBLISHED ON GREENLIGHT
As previously noted, it will not be Published on Steam until the Tutorial and Manual are complete, and a decision has been made on where to direct users for further information (separate forums, sub forum, or the same forums).
« Last Edit: December 22, 2015, 08:21:28 PM by HaydenRead »

Offline prissi

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Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #64 on: December 22, 2015, 09:17:55 PM »
The help files are not very correct, as there are several ways to implement the help files; some languages do with less files, and still have an ok coverage. Japanese for instance is almost complete, and most downloads globally come from Japan (30%). I would use base.tab as guidance. Most missing translations in paks are houses, which are not noticable to many players too.

Offline HaydenRead

Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #65 on: December 22, 2015, 09:52:09 PM »
The help files are not very correct, as there are several ways to implement the help files; some languages do with less files, and still have an ok coverage. Japanese for instance is almost complete, and most downloads globally come from Japan (30%). I would use base.tab as guidance. Most missing translations in paks are houses, which are not noticable to many players too.
Thanks for that feedback, I will list languages at 80% Base, and 60% on the pak file, which gives an initial 'language list' of English, Czech, French, German, Hungarian, Japanese, Spanish.

Offline TurfIt

Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #66 on: January 07, 2016, 04:00:34 AM »
I see this is now listed on Steam Greenlight for those that missed the announcement above hidden in a post edit...

Offline HaydenRead

Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #67 on: January 08, 2016, 07:15:01 PM »
Thank you to everyone who voted, the game is now Greenlit and will hopefully be on Steam in the not to distant future.
As previously decided, a manual and tutorial need to be completed first, and a decision still has not been made on wether there should be a separate forum section for Steam.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #68 on: January 08, 2016, 08:32:38 PM »
How splendid! It'd be wonderful to bring the delights of Simutrans to a wider audience.
Download Simutrans-Extended.

Want to help with development? See here for things to do for coding, and here for information on how to make graphics/objects.

Follow Simutrans-Extended on Facebook.

Offline Spacethingy

Re: Simutrans on Steam
« Reply #69 on: January 08, 2016, 08:46:24 PM »
You've stated on Steam that you want Workshop integration - does this mean that any .pak that gets developed and uploaded there won't be available to anyone without a Steam account? I rather think that would do fair bit of damage to Simutrans' community, especially if you pile on top of that an actual split into a new forum.
Quote
Also, this will make the process of upgrading and creating more add-ons a little bit simpler.
I'll have to get an account for some software I don't want, in order to get involved with addons? Hmmm... Not my idea of simpler! :D

The comments on the Greenlight page are half hilarious, half depressing...
Quote
well whilst it does seem good, isn't this just like boom beach or another mobile game? even if it's free.So all I'd like to be changed, or improved, would be to make sure there is no cons like buying gems online to make buildings go faster ect. So please make it like you are right now but just with no dimonds or gems or anything

Although more seriously, there are a few comments along the lines of people not getting what Simutrans actually is. And actually, to be fair, taking a quick glance at a simple pak64 screenshot for instance, you can kind of see why someone might guess that the game is something simple/boring/time-wasting. Might be worth trawling through the coments to get some ideas for making your video and promo material a bit more targeted.
Life is like a new Simutrans transformer:

You only get one of them, and you can't have it on a slope.