Author Topic: [TUTORIAL] Guide to Convoy Spacing & Line Scheduling  (Read 32510 times)

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Offline Jando

Re: [TUTORIAL] Guide to Convoy Spacing & Line Scheduling
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2014, 08:53:39 PM »
Thanks for the answer, Carl, makes sense. Perhaps include this information in the tutorial? The text now seems to suggest that a vehicle departs whenever there is enough for it's maximum load.

Offline Carl

Re: [TUTORIAL] Guide to Convoy Spacing & Line Scheduling
« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2014, 09:43:00 PM »
I believe the tutorial was written before the 10 minute-rule was introduced. I will update it, when I get a chance, to take account of those changes. Thanks for spotting this!

Offline gfurst

Re: [TUTORIAL] Guide to Convoy Spacing & Line Scheduling
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2014, 09:45:41 AM »
I would like to take notice that since there is a timing rule that prevents convoy leaving before scheduled time then the 101% - 400% loading is irrelevant.
I supposed that loading convoy to a maximum of 400% was only a tweak to prevent convoy from leaving before the supposed schedule time, and such a wide range after the 100% because to the possibility of overcrowding.
So I think its better this ways, convoy waits for timer but begins loading before and may even depart sooner than expected. Still the 400% load need adjusting.

Offline Carl

Re: [TUTORIAL] Guide to Convoy Spacing & Line Scheduling
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2014, 07:26:16 PM »
I would like to take notice that since there is a timing rule that prevents convoy leaving before scheduled time then the 101% - 400% loading is irrelevant.

Hi gfurst:

Unless I've missed something from the last few updates (which is possible, since I've been mostly absent recently), the above quote is false. Convoys with spacing active can board once less than 10 minutes remain before their scheduled departure. This means that, so long as there are enough passengers, they could in theory leave up to 10 minutes before their scheduled departure.

The possibility of a 400% load is intended to bypass this, since (almost?) no vehicles can reach 400% capacity even when overcrowded capacity is taken into account. As such a vehicle with "wait for 400% load" active cannot leave before its schedule departure time, whereas a convoy with 100 (or 101, etc) could in principle do so.

Offline Jando

Re: [TUTORIAL] Guide to Convoy Spacing & Line Scheduling
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2014, 12:54:51 AM »
Agree with Carl here, I frequently use the 300% setting for example: on stage coaches on lines with enough demand, forces the coaches into overcrowded mode.

Offline gfurst

Re: [TUTORIAL] Guide to Convoy Spacing & Line Scheduling
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2014, 06:05:00 PM »
I supposed that loading convoy to a maximum of 400% was only a tweak to prevent convoy from leaving before the supposed schedule time, and such a wide range after the 100% because to the possibility of overcrowding.
So I think its better this ways, convoy waits for timer but begins loading before and may even depart sooner than expected. Still the 400% load need adjusting.
I think you misunderstood me,  I said the exactly same thing, see the above lines.
What I've meant is that with the timing rule, a convoy loading and maybe departing earlier than expected might be good and realistic.
Waiting for the convoy to be fully overcrowded might not be ideal if you take comfort into consideration. I would suggest a max setting of 200%, unless there are vehicles that can take overcrowd to more than that, which in my opinion seems exaggerated.

Offline Carl

Re: [TUTORIAL] Guide to Convoy Spacing & Line Scheduling
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2014, 07:42:37 PM »
400% is available to allow people to use convoy spacing for bona fide timetables -- if the maximum was 200% then this would not be possible. I agree that under some circumstances you might want a vehicle to leave once it's full (or fully overcrowded) -- but in that case you can simply set the percentage to the desired value, since anything between 0 and 400 is allowed. I don't see that this is a reason to disallow going all the way up to 400, since this allows those who want to to do things that they otherwise wouldn't be able to do.

LoCo

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Re: [TUTORIAL] Guide to Convoy Spacing & Line Scheduling
« Reply #42 on: October 22, 2014, 09:45:00 PM »
hi all,
first im german so sry for my english.
i dont get it ... the ingame time depends on my bits per month settings...
but the time for the timetables runs fast as hell ... even faster than realtime
when i set bits per month at 23, i get a coincidence of this two times ...
but minutes of ingametime are seconds in the timetable ...

i want to play with bits per month at 27-30 ... so i dont get a coincidence
with this settings ingame time (bottom left) runs down 1 minute and the timetable (time above convoys) runs down more than 1 minute
... isnt it possible to attach the timetable timespeed to the ingame timespeed?
example : 1 minute ingame time is 1 minute in the timetables?
i played around with the gamesettings but dont get it.
i hope my text is understandable :-S and thanks in advance for every reply.

Offline DrSuperGood

Re: [TUTORIAL] Guide to Convoy Spacing & Line Scheduling
« Reply #43 on: October 23, 2014, 03:24:16 AM »
Quote
but minutes of ingametime are seconds in the timetable ...
I believe it is meant to be that the wait time above the convoy when you mouse over them is in the same units as the time months are broken into. As such it should always be X:Y where X are hours and Y are minutes which advance 1:1 with the month time in hours and minutes.

The only thing that month length should change with timetabling is the amount of actual wait time that a schedule converts into. Longer months will produce longer wait time for the same schedule as you specify wait time in convoys per month so each timeslot will be longer. Shorter months should result in the opposite with each time slot becoming shorter.

You can compensate for this by raising or reducing the number of convoys per month. With very long months you will want a large number of convoys per month (like 100-200 for a commuter service) where as shorter months might be fine with very few (10-20).

LoCo

  • Guest
Re: [TUTORIAL] Guide to Convoy Spacing & Line Scheduling
« Reply #44 on: October 23, 2014, 06:44:33 PM »
yes ... but i dont see a coincedence between "wait time" and "ingame time" or " wait time" and "reallife time" ...
as example ... above convoys you see a wait time of 33m:12s ... but it is neither realtime nor ingame time ...
ingame time the bus waits more than 3h and realtime it is around 3-5 minutes
so i dont really know how long he waits actually because it counts faster than "realtime" and slower than the "ingame time"
i want to start a bus hourly on ingame time with 1 station enforcing the space
but when i set it to 1:00:00 convoy spacing it dont fits with both timelines
at 1 convoy setted, it has a spacing of 204:xx:xx ... 204 hours of what? on which timeline is it based on
1 month are 744 ingame hours in a 31 days month and at bits per month 27 one month lasts 37,28 hours of reallife time
where does this 204 h at 1 convoy per month come from?

Offline Milko

Re: [TUTORIAL] Guide to Convoy Spacing & Line Scheduling
« Reply #45 on: July 20, 2016, 09:11:43 PM »
Hello


"Wait for time", someone could help to understand how to use?


If I specify "Minimum load" = 100% and "Maxim wait time" to 3:00 the convoy will depart reaching 100% load OR 3:00 minutes?


Thank's
Giuseppe

Online Ves

Re: [TUTORIAL] Guide to Convoy Spacing & Line Scheduling
« Reply #46 on: July 21, 2016, 10:50:47 AM »
If you specify "wait for time", the convoys will depart with the frequency set in the two "Departures" boxes to the right.
If you specify also the "Maximum waiting time", I understand that the convoy should never wait more than what is specified in that box. Eg, if you have specified 5 minutes in that box, and the next slot is 20 minutes away, the convoy will only wait 5 minutes instead of 20. However, I cannot seem to get it work, the train will instantly depart in my testgame. Maybe there is a bug?

If you specify only "maximum load", the train will wait for its maximum load.
If you combine it with the two "Departures" boxes to the right, you can tell the train to wait until set load percentage until the departure slot
If you combine the "maximum load" with "Maximum wait time", you can make the train wait until set load percentage or until the timer has run out.

If you combine all three of them ("Maximum load", "Maximum wait time" and the "Departures"), I think the train will wait until the first condition is met, but I had not have time to test that.

Offline accord2

Re: [TUTORIAL] Guide to Convoy Spacing & Line Scheduling
« Reply #47 on: February 14, 2017, 05:18:57 PM »
Hi,
can someone explain me how do it so a express line can use the same railway as a slow commuter line? I don't get that part.

Offline Carl

Re: [TUTORIAL] Guide to Convoy Spacing & Line Scheduling
« Reply #48 on: February 14, 2017, 05:57:29 PM »
I think this feature has been deprecated in favour of  "wait for time" in the new Extended versions, but I haven't tested that yet. In any case the concept of the same.


One way to do this is to schedule the express train to leave (e.g.) the terminus a few minutes before the slow train does. That way the slow train won't get in the way of the express train. If it's a long line then you may have to have another passing station later on. In that case, make the slow train wait in a side platform again until the next express train has passed.

Online Ves

Re: [TUTORIAL] Guide to Convoy Spacing & Line Scheduling
« Reply #49 on: February 14, 2017, 05:57:51 PM »
Hi,
can someone explain me how do it so a express line can use the same railway as a slow commuter line? I don't get that part.
I guess the guide needs to be updated now to match the new GUI :)

However, you need to make sure that the commuter train departs after the express train.
This is done by having two different schedules, one commuter and one express, and with the same numbers of departures pr month.
Dependent on the level of detail and finetuning that you need, you may have to specify the stops in both directions (leaving the "mirror schedule" unchecked), but in this example that level of detail is not neccessary, so we will use the "mirror schedule" feature.

Next to the "Departures/month" field is the "shift" field. That is an offset that can be used to delay the departure times. The value that appears under the field is in hours, minutes and seconds (however, the hours are invinsible until you select a high enough value). That is the actual time that the schedule will be offset.
The seamingly odd minutes and seconds that it gets pushed is due to a default setting in the settings dialog, which carls explains in his original guide on the first post how to change using "spacing_shift_divisor" in the settings (James, maybe this is worth change permanently to something more convinient?). Convenient could be if "1" in the field corresponds to 1 minute. To do that, calculate how many minutes a month have (if a month = 6.24.00, number of minutes would be 384).
The button underneath which is called "Use same shift for all stops." forces the shift value to be the same on all stops which have "Wait for time" enabled. Unchecking the box allows you to specify a different shift value at each stop.

So, to answer your question, theorethically you set "wait for time" in each schedule at both their terminis, and add a shift value for the commuter train so it departs a minute or two later.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: [TUTORIAL] Guide to Convoy Spacing & Line Scheduling
« Reply #50 on: February 15, 2017, 12:25:49 AM »
See Ves's post above describing the new "wait for time" feature.
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Offline AP

Re: [TUTORIAL] Guide to Convoy Spacing & Line Scheduling
« Reply #51 on: April 29, 2017, 05:36:34 PM »
Note also that you'll need to play around with the spacing numbers and the "spacing_shift_divisor" in the settings menu to get the right values here. The rule here is as follows: set the "spacing_shift_divisor" to exactly the number of minutes-per-month in your game. That way, entering "1" into the shift box will amount to exactly one minute, and so on.

I'm trying to understand timetabling, but need a bit of help please related to the above point.

My game's default setting has "spacing_shift_divisor" set to 1440 in settings. However I can't find minutes-per-month, only "bits_per_month", and as I don't know how many bits a minute is, I don't know if they are equal or not.  However, since my game seems to be Spacing-Shifting in 16 second increments I suspect not.  16s is annoyingly not a useful fraction of a minute, which makes timetable maths complicated!

Is there a reason the game is defaulting to Spacing Shifting at 16s rather than 1 minute intervals?  Given various people set up games without scrutinising every setting, might it be wise for James to change the default (wherever it is, and it doesn't seem to be in simuconf.tab...) to be such that they match?  Or is there an adverse implcation I'm not aware of?


Online Ves

Re: [TUTORIAL] Guide to Convoy Spacing & Line Scheduling
« Reply #52 on: April 29, 2017, 05:43:02 PM »
If you have the clock in the lower left corner, the minutes per month is hour*60 + eventual minutes. My months are 6:24:00 long which equals to 384 minutes, which is also the value I use as spacing shift devisor.

Offline Carl

Re: [TUTORIAL] Guide to Convoy Spacing & Line Scheduling
« Reply #53 on: April 29, 2017, 06:00:14 PM »
A long while ago I made a little table of how bits_per_month and meters_per_tile interact to determine the month length (and therefore to help you set the spacing shift divisor). Maybe it still works?

http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=7897.0