Author Topic: Confort-reducing ways  (Read 157 times)

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Offline Ves

Confort-reducing ways
« on: October 14, 2017, 01:10:53 PM »
The bad thing about simutrans is that you begin to see simutrans values everywhere in the real world :p
I'm currently sitting in a train in Sweden, trying to eat a small Risifrutti. The reason I am saying "trying", is because it's nearly impossible because my arm with the spoon full of risifrutti, as well as the rest of me and the entire train, is jumping up and down due to the rail being in such a bad shape.
Immediately I thought that this is not very comfortable, and tried to figure out a number for it, but then I realized it is not the train, but the rails that makes this not comfortable.

Thinking about it, all kinds of ways get uncomfortable to travel on when they get decayed:
Tracks gets small lumps and bumps, scratches in the metal as well as sun curves, all kinds of roads gets some kind of holes in them. Waterways would be the exception, since it don't decay. No vehicle, how comfortable the seats might be, can keep up with a road full of holes!

I don't remember if this was ever discussed before, but I could think of a comfort reducement percentage:
When way is in 100% condition, 100% of the comfort is used. When the way decades to, say 50%, the comfort starts to diminish and maybe ends at 70% of max comfort when the way has decayed to 0%. Does it makes sense?
The values could be set in per waytype.

Even typing this post on my phone was difficult at times!

Offline jamespetts

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Re: Confort-reducing ways
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2017, 01:49:26 PM »
This is an interesting idea, although there are three principal difficulties with this, two conceptual and one technical.

The first conceptual problem is how it is made clear to the player what is happening and what the actual comfort of any given journey is. Currently, the player can work out the comfort of a journey (provided that it be not overcrowded) just by looking at the comfort of the vehicles. However, there would be no easy way of doing this as regards ways.

The second conceptual problem is the relationship between the degree of degradation and the degree of comfort loss. I do not think that one would simply use the percentage of degradation, since a way with 80% of its useful life left would not reduce comfort by 20%; it would be likely to be unnoticeably different from a way of 100%, so a much more complex formula would be needed, based on real life data; I do not know what that formula would sensibly be.

The technical problem is how, without consuming excessive memory bandwidth on extremely large maps with many thousands of vehicles, a convoy would store and process the comfort affecting degradation of each way tile over which it traverses, and then apportion that among all the passengers for each of their journeys, some of which may well have travelled on different parts of the route than others.

One might conceptualise the problem differently, and instead ask: what is the speed reduction from the way's normal top speed necessary to achieve a level of comfort approximately the same as the way in a good state of maintenance, and then impose a speed limit on degraded ways instead. This is already done (a speed limit is imposed on ways that are less than a certain percentage of their full state, but greater than 0%, at which point they become entirely impassable).
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Offline DrSuperGood

Re: Confort-reducing ways
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2017, 03:13:45 PM »
It is not really realistic since road renewal and maintenance by definition means that all holes get fixed up before they become a major problem. Sure one could argue that there is a small decay in comfort however it is so small that people just learn to except it.

Unless of course the condition percentage is something totally arbitrary and not engineering related with 0% meaning the thing has literally become unusable.

Offline Vladki

Re: Confort-reducing ways
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2017, 03:39:40 PM »
I thought about something similar when studying the rolling_friction model.

Different road surfaces have different friction, and that is also closely related to comfort. Think of dirt/gravel/cobblestone/asphalt roads. The difference is no so significant for railroads, but still you can distinguish continuosly welded rail to be more comfortable, than rail with joints.

If we consider that regular maintenance keeps the road in good shape, both could be a static values. If not then the comfort reduction (and friction increase), should not be linear. A well maintained road (surface) keeps its quality for long time, until the lower layers get damaged, when the road needs renewal. Something like:
condition/comfort: 100%/100%, 50%/90%, 25%/ 75%, 10%/50%, 0%/100%

Offline Ves

Re: Confort-reducing ways
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2017, 08:22:44 PM »
I was talking about the comfort getting reduced only when the way is, say 50% condition or less. So between 50% and 100% there would be no reduce in comfort. I'm away with really bad internet, so I can't elaborate better currently.