Author Topic: Beta Testing pak64 Server on 120.0 Available!  (Read 4248 times)

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Offline MobileRod

Beta Testing pak64 Server on 120.0 Available!
« on: September 08, 2014, 02:43:02 PM »
New server running, thanks to Michael Hohl.
I uploaded the Release Candidate Simutrans 120.0 (v7175) and its corresponding pak64 from:
http://pt.sourceforge.jp/projects/sfnet_simutrans/downloads/simutrans/120-0/simuwin-120-0.zip/ (game engine)
http://pt.sourceforge.jp/projects/sfnet_simutrans/downloads/pak64/120-0/simupak64-120-0.zip/ (pakset)
Server is not appearing on the "Play Online" option, so consider typing "151.236.7.49:12222" and query server to play.

Main changes I'm testing on this game:
- Game started in 1900, but there's no timeline: no vehicle will get obsolete, and everything is available all the time.
- Start at ¢300k; those who start later will get ¢3k for each unplayed "year", counting from 1900.
- Dummies will be removed in six "months", and players who don't appear for over ten "years" will have their companies unprotected.
- Building stops is facilitated due to reduced investment; changing land is discouraged through higher prices.
- Public Service will build facilities (speed depends on time available, since it's manual) to help players and/or provide integration service when required. There's already a public airport in the southest of the map.

So join us, be nice to all other players, and enjoy :)

Offline DrSuperGood

Re: Beta Testing pak64 Server on 120.0 Available!
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2014, 03:21:01 PM »
I would strongly advise you use nightly builds instead of the RC120 version. Several bug fixes have been applied for tunnel construction, in-transit graphs, maximum in-transit etc since the RC was made.

Also the nightly 64 pakset might feature some minor balance fixes for monorail and high speed trains but I am not sure if these changes are live with it.

You also forgot to enable timeline year. As such vehicles will be poorly balanced.
Something appears wrong with the in-transit amounts. A coal power station will only allow 2 units to be in-transit. This might be a result of the bug I mentioned regarding maximum in-transit that was fixed in nightly.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2014, 03:43:42 PM by DrSuperGood »

Offline MobileRod

Re: Beta Testing pak64 Server on 120.0 Available!
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2014, 06:22:16 PM »
Thanks a lot, Dr SuperGood. I'll consider this at a next step.
This time I didn't take the nightly for I supposed most players would have the last stable (I would even rather use 112.3, but it didn't load to the service, then I gave a chance to RC). About the timeline, it's not just that I forgot: I really thought about not having time to change a whole fleet for a while then making that not changing ok, hahaha.
For the time, it's just for fun, but your suggestions will be put into practice when we make it more "serious" :)

Offline DrSuperGood

Re: Beta Testing pak64 Server on 120.0 Available!
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2014, 07:16:15 PM »
Well when I tried the server was pretty much unplayable as most industry chains were unable to function (too little in-transit allowed).

Time-line is needed so that the speed bonuses alter with age. Otherwise it is always best to use the super fast modern trains/planes and they will make a lot of money. Pak64 is balanced around use of time line.

EDIT

There is a major bug with cross linking which is causing the maximum in-transit error. I will try and get it fixed as soon as possible.

I have successfully diagnosed the issue as related to loading with cross-link enabled and filed a change suggestion to fix it (which should hopefully work its way into nightly builds in a few days). To put it bluntly loading maps with cross-linking enabled is completely broken in RC120.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2014, 02:15:43 AM by DrSuperGood »

Offline ger

Re: Beta Testing pak64 Server on 120.0 Available!
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2014, 12:04:58 AM »
Hi, everyone.

I tried to connect the server, but after reading the chat for a minute I was automatically disconnected, and now it doesn´t connect anymore.

What a shame! even if everithing looked weird and unbalanced, it looked like it was pretty fun and enjoyable to play.  ;D

Offline MobileRod

Re: Beta Testing pak64 Server on 120.0 Available!
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2014, 01:24:00 AM »
Quite strange... Server hasn't responded so far by now...
Dr SuperGood and I were chatting about possible changes and different approaches on how to have a successful company on Simutrans, and we were glad you came to join us, but it seems the server went down for quite a long while since then.
Hope it comes back and we can play together soon :)

Offline Michael 'Cruzer'

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Re: Beta Testing pak64 Server on 120.0 Available!
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2014, 08:16:02 AM »
Did you tried to restart the server via web panel, MobileRod? The server hardware is still online, it just seems that Simutrans may be crashed on it, which you can fix by pressing "Start" again in web panel.

There are still some ways you can accidentally crash Simutrans. For example you login to the server and loose your connection while connecting, Simutrans seems to endlessly try to send the map to the client, which will result that the server is blocked until it gets restarted.

I'm sorry, but such bugs of Simutrans can't be fixed by my web service, the only solution is that you login to web panel and force a restart in case of Simutrans gets unreachable.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 08:26:35 AM by Michael 'Cruzer' »
Founder and Ex-Maintainer of pak192.comic. Provider of Simutrans Hosting rental service.

Offline DrSuperGood

Re: Beta Testing pak64 Server on 120.0 Available!
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2014, 02:54:27 PM »
Quote
For example you login to the server and loose your connection while connecting, Simutrans seems to endlessly try to send the map to the client, which will result that the server is blocked until it gets restarted.
I thought it just blocked until the TCP connection timed out? If not that is a bug that should be fixed (by developers).

Offline MobileRod

Re: Beta Testing pak64 Server on 120.0 Available!
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2014, 01:13:04 AM »
Thanks, Michael!
Couldn't check about the reason then because of too much work, but I've just got home and realised the server had stopped - most probably for any of the reasons you imagined.
But anyway there's good news. Server is back to activity. Let's play :D

Offline Michael 'Cruzer'

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Re: Beta Testing pak64 Server on 120.0 Available!
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2014, 10:47:18 AM »
Server is not appearing on the "Play Online" option, so consider typing "151.236.7.49:12222" and query server to play.

The update installed to server panel today allows to add configure server announcing. So if you would like to add this server to public servers list, just check the option and define a server name in your admin panel.

« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 11:02:19 AM by Michael 'Cruzer' »
Founder and Ex-Maintainer of pak192.comic. Provider of Simutrans Hosting rental service.

Offline MobileRod

Re: Beta Testing pak64 Server on 120.0 Available!
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2014, 01:20:47 PM »
Thanks a lot, Michael!! I can't believe I haven't noticed that...
I named it "MobileRod Experience 1", and it is supposed to appear after the next restart. The players are helping a lot with suggestions for the next experiences :)

Offline DrSuperGood

Re: Beta Testing pak64 Server on 120.0 Available!
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2014, 01:15:12 PM »
The server appears to be performing badly at times. I disconnect fairly often and even the small map it uses can some times take a while to download. This is not really an issue with my internet connection as I have played on fifty's servers and others with less issues. I already have 7 client frames behind so have some reliability tolerance.

Offline Michael 'Cruzer'

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Re: Beta Testing pak64 Server on 120.0 Available!
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2014, 01:32:20 PM »
The server appears to be performing badly at times. I disconnect fairly often and even the small map it uses can some times take a while to download. This is not really an issue with my internet connection as I have played on fifty's servers and others with less issues. I already have 7 client frames behind so have some reliability tolerance.
Can't think of any reason why downloading would take longer then on other servers. All servers hosted by the panel are forced to use "zipped" savegames and server FPS limited to 17. (My first guess would be that fitfy has used a lower FPS rate, which would result into less network traffic.)

To exclude network issue, may you test download speed of the server by downloading of either http://151.236.7.49:6400/test10.zip (10MB) or http://151.236.7.49:6400/test100.zip (100MB) and post your download speed and average "ping 151.236.7.49" values here?
Founder and Ex-Maintainer of pak192.comic. Provider of Simutrans Hosting rental service.

Offline DrSuperGood

Re: Beta Testing pak64 Server on 120.0 Available!
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2014, 07:02:03 PM »
Quote
post your download speed
484 kb/sec. However this is peek time where download speeds are slightly lower.

When I was playing it was off-peak so should be able to obtain 800-900 kb/sec down.

Quote
and average "ping 151.236.7.49" values here?
Average is meaningless? I mean all it takes is 1 packet to arrive very slow and the game will fall out of sync. As such it is worst case that is important.

From running 256 pings against it the connection appears very unreliable with ping being anywhere from 70ms to worse than default timeout (ping failed).

Anywhere here is the dump.
Code: [Select]
Pinging 151.236.7.49 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 151.236.7.49: bytes=32 time=75ms TTL=52
Reply from 151.236.7.49: bytes=32 time=71ms TTL=52
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Request timed out.
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Reply from 151.236.7.49: bytes=32 time=82ms TTL=52
Reply from 151.236.7.49: bytes=32 time=91ms TTL=52
Reply from 151.236.7.49: bytes=32 time=75ms TTL=52
Reply from 151.236.7.49: bytes=32 time=70ms TTL=52
Reply from 151.236.7.49: bytes=32 time=165ms TTL=52
Reply from 151.236.7.49: bytes=32 time=158ms TTL=52
Reply from 151.236.7.49: bytes=32 time=73ms TTL=52
Reply from 151.236.7.49: bytes=32 time=78ms TTL=52
Reply from 151.236.7.49: bytes=32 time=106ms TTL=52
Reply from 151.236.7.49: bytes=32 time=75ms TTL=52
Reply from 151.236.7.49: bytes=32 time=76ms TTL=52
Reply from 151.236.7.49: bytes=32 time=71ms TTL=52
Reply from 151.236.7.49: bytes=32 time=76ms TTL=52
Reply from 151.236.7.49: bytes=32 time=70ms TTL=52
Reply from 151.236.7.49: bytes=32 time=73ms TTL=52
Reply from 151.236.7.49: bytes=32 time=71ms TTL=52
Reply from 151.236.7.49: bytes=32 time=78ms TTL=52
Reply from 151.236.7.49: bytes=32 time=77ms TTL=52
Reply from 151.236.7.49: bytes=32 time=72ms TTL=52
Reply from 151.236.7.49: bytes=32 time=73ms TTL=52
Reply from 151.236.7.49: bytes=32 time=73ms TTL=52
Reply from 151.236.7.49: bytes=32 time=75ms TTL=52
Reply from 151.236.7.49: bytes=32 time=100ms TTL=52
Reply from 151.236.7.49: bytes=32 time=73ms TTL=52
Reply from 151.236.7.49: bytes=32 time=75ms TTL=52
Reply from 151.236.7.49: bytes=32 time=73ms TTL=52
Reply from 151.236.7.49: bytes=32 time=89ms TTL=52

Ping statistics for 151.236.7.49:
    Packets: Sent = 256, Received = 255, Lost = 1 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 70ms, Maximum = 493ms, Average = 106ms

As you can see the minimum is 70ms however it can reach nearly 500ms.

I guess the server and/or clients just need a larger frame behind amount.

Offline Michael 'Cruzer'

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Re: Beta Testing pak64 Server on 120.0 Available!
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2014, 07:09:14 PM »
Wow. That's quite strange, but thank you for your feedback. I don't have a very stable internet connection at home, so I tried to ping it from another vServer. The vServer is located in Canada, the server Simutrans is running on is located at Vienna, Austria (Europe), so don't wonder about the high ping of 141ms.

The result of the ping was impressively stable:

Code: [Select]
209 packets transmitted, 207 received, 0% packet loss, time 208241ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 141.127/141.402/147.010/0.647 ms

So I guess this must be your connections fault. Maybe your ISP just having some overloading at moment and it will work fine in some days again.
Founder and Ex-Maintainer of pak192.comic. Provider of Simutrans Hosting rental service.

Offline DrSuperGood

Re: Beta Testing pak64 Server on 120.0 Available!
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2014, 11:52:53 PM »
Pinging from Canada will almost certainly take a different route than from the UK. It is possible one of the backbone networks was overloaded when I pinged however the playing problems with the server occur past midnight where I would imagine traffic in the EU throttles back (minimum number of users).

My guess is that the frames ahead for the server is just set too low. Outside of a LAN it might not be possible to achieve such reliable RRT. I am not the only person suffering from this as well as the server administrator is often re-joining (although he has more of an excuse as he is from Brasil and has inherently unreliable internet). The Experimental server I play on (not yours) does not suffer from this, due to the save being >100MB so it uses a very large frames ahead amount for reliability.

Offline Michael 'Cruzer'

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Re: Beta Testing pak64 Server on 120.0 Available!
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2014, 08:31:59 AM »
I've changed server_frames_ahead from 4 (default) to 8 on his server. Once he will restart it, changes should apply. If this works fine I'll make this the default value for all newly created servers on my service.
Founder and Ex-Maintainer of pak192.comic. Provider of Simutrans Hosting rental service.

Offline DrSuperGood

Re: Beta Testing pak64 Server on 120.0 Available!
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2014, 10:32:31 PM »
The server itself appears unreliable. It periodically freezes for several seconds and drops everyone. Or at least it appears to do so. I have set my frames behind (client) to over 24 and the result is latency in the order of seconds. Although this dramatically decreased the frequency of disconnects it still manages to disconnect.

The only other explanation would be a deterministic error in RC120. This cannot be ruled out as the servers Fifty hosted used timeline and cross-connect disabled, both which alter the game mechanics in some way. Coupled by the some times slow upload rates it does look like a QoS issue. I can assure you it is not my ISP as everything else worked perfectly (I joined the 100 MB experimental server and remained connected for 20 minutes odd directly after) and other players appeared to suffer it at the same time as well.

For server administrator (not provider) I would strongly advise trying to migrate to a nightly build as several errors were fixed. It is possible that when these were fixed the servers became more stable as in the end Fifty migrated to Nightly as well after several stability issues.