Author Topic: [patch] Replacing (aka the long, long crossing of the desert)  (Read 36000 times)

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Offline prissi

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Re: [patch] Replacing (aka the long, long crossing of the desert)
« Reply #70 on: April 07, 2012, 08:57:15 PM »
As most frequently requested feature, I think a modified try in this might be useful. Maybe exclusively as called by the line tool, with indication of total capacity and length of old convois and replacing all of them as only option. Like an line inherent depot actually ...

Offline isidoro

Re: [patch] Replacing (aka the long, long crossing of the desert)
« Reply #71 on: April 07, 2012, 09:59:03 PM »
I'd be very glad if an improved version is incorporated in Standard.


Offline jamespetts

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Re: [patch] Replacing (aka the long, long crossing of the desert)
« Reply #72 on: April 08, 2012, 01:17:12 PM »
If this is to be incorporated in Standard, might I suggest that some changes are made based on experience in Experimental? I am planning to make a few changes to this in any event along these lines, and this might be an opportunity for standardisation (no pun intended) across the two branches. In summary, the suggested changes are as follows:

(1) do not use a series of variables in convoy_t to store the data: add a new replace_datum_t object, and define a pointer to it in convoi_t, which, when NULL, indicates that no replacing is taking place; this will save memory (this is already implemented in Experimental);

(2) allow a current replacing instruction to be cleared before it is executed (this is also already implemented in Experimental);

(3) do not require convoys to go to the depot to be replaced - experience in Experimental shows that this causes large problems with congestion - instead, replace the convoy in situ once it is empty;

(4) allow vehicles in the convoy to be replaced by vehicles (including vehicles now out of production, even when the option to allow buying obsolete vehicles is disabled) from existing depots (this allows for proper cascading); and

(5) connected to the above, make all vehicles available in any depot of any player available from all depots, so that there is in effect a single stock of stored vehicles for each player from which either the replacer or a depot can assemble convoys.

Experimental also plans to implement a secondhand market in vehicles, which will be useful for online play. I am not sure whether this would be something that the Standard developers would like to do, but if so, then it might be worthwhile considering implementing the architecture for that alongside the above suggested changes.
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Offline prissi

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Re: [patch] Replacing (aka the long, long crossing of the desert)
« Reply #73 on: April 08, 2012, 06:27:45 PM »
It will be probably new code in the line window, like two bottons "Replace all convois" which will set the retire flag at all convois and will assign the new convois to this line from a standard depot dialoge of the depot of most of the convois. The other is add new convois, and will add convois to a diven line using the depot dialogue.

The only difference will be, that a the top of the dialogue the old and new capacity of the line will be shown. That way the depot help an most of the stuff could be reused without making the dialogue much bigger.

It will not work on lineless convois and must be triggered per line.

At least these are my though on this. (Maybe the line information will help even current depots; in that case just a standard depot dialogue is needed.)

Offline isidoro

Re: [patch] Replacing (aka the long, long crossing of the desert)
« Reply #74 on: April 08, 2012, 10:48:32 PM »
This is a quote from another thread, but I think the answer fits better here:
[...]
All this is to say: I love the convoy replacing tool, and wish I could use it for adding a copy of a complex convoy to a line, without having to manually send someone to the depot.

The classic Copy to clipboard and Paste from clipboard would be handy here.  The copied convoy would be copied with all its information, including schedule/line...  The Paste from clipboard button would be grayed when there is nothing in the clipboard, as usual.

The present Copy button in the depot dialog should be renamed to Replicate or Duplicate, imho.

Offline Fabio

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Re: [patch] Replacing (aka the long, long crossing of the desert)
« Reply #75 on: April 11, 2012, 11:26:51 AM »
Nice! I'm glad this is coming to light after all this time.

A few thoughts:
If some of the convoys in the line already match the new pattern, leave them as they are. An option to only replace obsolete would be handy too.
if the new pattern has some cars in common with the old one (e.g. It only changes the loco), keep those, don't sell and re-buy them.
A second hand market would be nice indeed. all withdrawn cars are sent to a market virtual depot. In player's depot the cars have these numbers:
green: there are n cars in the current depot, you can use them freely.
Yellow: there are n cars in other depots belonging to the same player. you can use them, paying a small transport fee (e.g. 1% of the current value)
Red: there are cars in the market depot. You can buy them at their current value + 1% fee.
No number: no cars, you buy brand new ones.

Offline neroden

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Re: [patch] Replacing (aka the long, long crossing of the desert)
« Reply #76 on: May 13, 2012, 11:29:34 PM »
(3) do not require convoys to go to the depot to be replaced - experience in Experimental shows that this causes large problems with congestion - instead, replace the convoy in situ once it is empty;

I actually prefer to force them to go to the depot even though it causes problems with congestion; replacing vehicles mid-journey feels way too weird to me.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: [patch] Replacing (aka the long, long crossing of the desert)
« Reply #77 on: May 13, 2012, 11:33:05 PM »
Hmm, I think that playability needs to outweigh lack of weirdness on this one...
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Offline Ters

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Re: [patch] Replacing (aka the long, long crossing of the desert)
« Reply #78 on: May 14, 2012, 05:09:56 AM »
Congestion when replacing parts of a vehicle is bothersome, but I would hate to have to resort to magic to avoid it.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: [patch] Replacing (aka the long, long crossing of the desert)
« Reply #79 on: May 14, 2012, 12:40:29 PM »
I'd be hesitant to say that there is anything fundamentally inconsistent at a gameplay level about replacing without going to a depot: after all, vehicles do not have to go to depots for routine maintenance.
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Offline ӔO

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Re: [patch] Replacing (aka the long, long crossing of the desert)
« Reply #80 on: May 14, 2012, 02:04:58 PM »
There are a lot of operational details that don't exist in simutrans. I prefer that the convoys just replace themselves when they reach their next stop.
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Offline jamespetts

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Re: [patch] Replacing (aka the long, long crossing of the desert)
« Reply #81 on: May 14, 2012, 02:16:04 PM »
They'd have to be empty first, however.
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Offline Ters

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Re: [patch] Replacing (aka the long, long crossing of the desert)
« Reply #82 on: May 14, 2012, 05:40:38 PM »
Then what's the point of depots anyway? Vehicles get maintained without visiting a depot, they can get modified without visiting a depot, they can be sold/scrapped without visiting a depot. Depots would then only be there in order to provide a door for the vehicles to enter the world, but they could just as well appear at the first waypoint. The depot window would become disconnected from any "physical" structures. If one wanted to store a convoy for potential later use rather than sell it or scrap it, the game would just teleport it to the limbo world of the players depot window once emptied. From there it can be brought back just like a new convoy.

Offline prissi

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Re: [patch] Replacing (aka the long, long crossing of the desert)
« Reply #83 on: May 14, 2012, 08:54:29 PM »
Depots should be designed in such a way that new convoys can add through them to the world. The replacing patch would set the withdrawal bit on all convois of the line and just add the new ones.