Author Topic: Simutrans Promotional Video  (Read 11659 times)

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Offline HaydenRead

Simutrans Promotional Video
« on: December 14, 2015, 10:45:32 PM »
Hi All,
I am working on a 'Promotional' video for Simutrans, and would like feedback on how to improve it:
This is my 2nd Attempt at the video, and 3rd Attempt .

One item that I have already thought of is to provide a list of useful Simutrans related links at the end of the Video.

Please let me know of any other features that you feel should be highlighted, or any other suggestions for improvements.

Updated to 4th attempt at the video, taking further suggestions into account
« Last Edit: December 20, 2015, 09:05:42 PM by HaydenRead »

Offline jamespetts

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Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2015, 11:06:53 PM »
I like the music, but this seems to end a little abruptly.
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Offline sdog

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2015, 11:43:19 PM »
Hayden, would you mind if the video, in its present form, were posted to simutrans social media accounts?

While certainly useful on youtube, do useful links work or make sense in Steam greenlight video presentations? When reviewing greenlight entries I went for on page descriptions first, then for the videos, presuming some degree of completeness and self contained presentation.

I've not had a chance to see the present version of the video. I've only seen the one posted on the steam thread. There I noticed an absence of dense rail networks, with many trains signals etc. I think it should be shown that there is much more possible than a few single trains. Perhaps someone can lend you a good savegame to film from?

ps.: Overall, good work. I very much appreciate the devotion to the Greenlight idea (while have some doubts that the community could cope with it.)


Offline HaydenRead

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2015, 11:54:55 PM »
I like the music, but this seems to end a little abruptly.
The music is the 'Ride that train' track from the Music folder for the game.
I agree that both the Video, and the Music end to abruptly (I forgot to move the fade out on the music), and am still trying to work out the best way to 'gently' end the video.

Hayden, would you mind if the video, in its present form, were posted to simutrans social media accounts?
I have no problems with this video being posted anywhere, and on any medium, and don't mind if you post this or any later version of the video produced.
While my primary intent is to produce a high quality video for use with Steam Greenlight, I do intend that it be available for use anywhere that Simutrans is promoted.

While certainly useful on youtube, do useful links work or make sense in Steam greenlight video presentations? When reviewing greenlight entries I went for on page descriptions first, then for the videos, presuming some degree of completeness and self contained presentation.
While links are not 'clickable' through Steam Greenlight, as they are on Youtube, users would still be able to manually enter them to find further information (if they are only watching the Video, and not reading the additional information).

I've not had a chance to see the present version of the video. I've only seen the one posted on the steam thread. There I noticed an absence of dense rail networks, with many trains signals etc. I think it should be shown that there is much more possible than a few single trains. Perhaps someone can lend you a good savegame to film from?
Would be great if someone could lend a saved game with dense rail network to capture and use in the video.

Offline sdog

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2015, 12:11:48 AM »
On ending the video: simutrans has a night mode, you can let the game do the fade out, with a sunset and an express train in the desert...

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall

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Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2015, 01:34:45 AM »
Relevant to links..... I have registered simutrans.in for the purpose of easy redirects.

http://simutrans.in/ redirects to simutrans.com

http://simutrans.in/forum/ redirects to forum.simutrans.com

These could be written on the video as, e.g. "simutrans.in/forum" to make them feel shorter.

(I couldn't find a short name that wasn't more than I was willing to spend; and the reason for doing this instead of using simutrans.com is just to have something consistent globally)

If there are any others I should create, let me know and I will gladly do so :)

Offline Yona-TYT

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2015, 04:48:35 AM »
I like very much this music. :thumbsup:


« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 03:51:36 AM by IgorEliezer »

Offline HaydenRead

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2015, 05:49:39 AM »
Relevant to links..... I have registered simutrans.in for the purpose of easy redirects.

http://simutrans.in/ redirects to simutrans.com

http://simutrans.in/forum/ redirects to forum.simutrans.com

These could be written on the video as, e.g. "simutrans.in/forum" to make them feel shorter.

(I couldn't find a short name that wasn't more than I was willing to spend; and the reason for doing this instead of using simutrans.com is just to have something consistent globally)

If there are any others I should create, let me know and I will gladly do so :)
By my count simutrans.in is only 1 character shorter than simutrans.com, and I don't see how an 'India' domain name is more consistent globally than simutrans.com

Offline Ters

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Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2015, 06:10:48 AM »
By my count simutrans.in is only 1 character shorter than simutrans.com, and I don't see how an 'India' domain name is more consistent globally than simutrans.com

I'm puzzled as well. There are only two things such a domain is "good" for as far as I can tell: 1) Indian users habitually type in rather than com. 2) Gimmicky URLs like simutrans.in/december, simutrans.in/media, simutrans.in/the/spotlight and simutrans.in/your/base. simutra.ns would be a more typical shortend domain name, but ns is not a valid top level domain name from what I could tell. (And NS is not two letters that give positive annotations when put together like that where I come from.)

Offline HaydenRead

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2015, 08:05:00 AM »
On ending the video: simutrans has a night mode, you can let the game do the fade out, with a sunset and an express train in the desert...
Quite like this idea, and have added it to my next iteration of the Video.

There I noticed an absence of dense rail networks, with many trains signals etc. I think it should be shown that there is much more possible than a few single trains.
I have attempted to add a slightly denser Train section to this version of the Video.

Online Leartin

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2015, 10:04:41 AM »
Some issues from a design pov, not sure if it is just a rough draft for the content or trying to be polished:


1) The video does not fill it's resolution. I assume you recorded on 1920x1080 and trimmed titlebar and windows bar, along with the edge of the game window to the sides. It would be best if you recorded on a slightly bigger screen so the actual game area fits a common 16:9 resolution.

2) The logo in the beginning is bigger than the screen size, and thus slightly cut off on top and bottom. But even if it was complete, screen-filling is just too big. If the logo in the beginning was half the height of the screen, it would still be big enough for that slide-to-the corner-effect.

3) The logo needs a neutral background. Since the font has only one color, as soon as it's on a background of similar color you can't easily read it. In it's simplest incarnation, you'd put the logo in a white square. More fancy stuff, like a short lower third insert, might be even better.

4) Font choice. A serif font, espacially one with such strong serifs, is very stable and static. However, the way you use it with wobbly effects, and later moving text, is the exact opposit. This font would require different behaviour, best would be a simple fade in. Since the game is rather static as well, this might result in boring visuals, especially along the exciting music, but it might also help to show that Simutrans is a slow-paced, relaxing game.

5) The part about different map sizes has two issues. One is the general visual appeal of cropped Images. In this case, you pretty much change the size of the video area, and even when you zoom in, it crops. A better way to do this would be to record some szenery in the background and put a settings window on top of it, cropped out pixel perfect on the edge of the window. Thus, it appears as if it's a normal screen, but you can zoom in on the settings without changing the background.
However, it won't help much since the only thing you can show is a number telling the map size. You have no visual clue how big it really is, and someone who does not know simutrans does not even have the time to see which number you are supposed to look at. Maybe actually moving the mouse there and visually changing the number would do a better job.

Additionally, I would use the ingame maps of progressed games instead of empty ones. I'm sure in the community there are usable advanced maps. Showing a very small one next to a bigger one, both of course showing the movement of vehicles, should hammer home the idea of different map sizes.

6) Night view. I don't feel like you can really see that the game is changing, rather then just the video getting darker. I suppose showing the effect in a city. To add some trickery, use a rather dense city with lots of vehicles, speed the game up to create a time-lapse-like effect, then show the screen getting darker by manually changing to night view.

7) End. I think the end should be like the start. Assuming you start the video with the logo on a white background, where the white fades to a game scene while the logo moves to it's corner, you can use the reverse effect for the end of the video, adding ".com" after the logo (font is either Highway Gothic or Roadgeek)


Writing so much about it, I feel somewhat obligated to do it myself. I'll see if I can find some old, non-abo versions of premiere collecting dust somewhere, since I don't have any equipment installed right now.

Offline Ters

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Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2015, 05:00:37 PM »
1) The video does not fill it's resolution. I assume you recorded on 1920x1080 and trimmed titlebar and windows bar, along with the edge of the game window to the sides. It would be best if you recorded on a slightly bigger screen so the actual game area fits a common 16:9 resolution.

The only monitors I know that are "slightly bigger" than 1920x1080 are the corresponding 1920x1200 16:10 screens. They are rarer, and more expensive, at least around here, so that might not be an option for everybody. I have two at work, but was only able to get a 16:9 at home, however I bought my monitor when 16:10 seemed to go extinct.

Alternatively, it should be possible to run Simutrans in fullscreen, without titlebars and stuff, although I'm not sure how well that feature works on various platforms. It was probably written for a single-monitor world.

Offline HaydenRead

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2015, 06:59:01 PM »
1) The video does not fill it's resolution. I assume you recorded on 1920x1080 and trimmed titlebar and windows bar, along with the edge of the game window to the sides. It would be best if you recorded on a slightly bigger screen so the actual game area fits a common 16:9 resolution.
You are right, I will try again, recording in fullscreen mode instead of windowed mode so as to eliminate the black bars at the top and bottom of the screen. (The main issue is finding a key combination that will work to start recording with Simutrans - Alt Tabing out to start recording from fullscreen mode seems to corrupt the game 'status bar' at the bottom of the screen). (Going through the original recordings I have the resolutions are about a 50/50 mix of 1920x1080 and 1366x768, I will attempt to re-record them all at 1920x1080 full screen).

2) The logo in the beginning is bigger than the screen size, and thus slightly cut off on top and bottom. But even if it was complete, screen-filling is just too big. If the logo in the beginning was half the height of the screen, it would still be big enough for that slide-to-the corner-effect.

3) The logo needs a neutral background. Since the font has only one color, as soon as it's on a background of similar color you can't easily read it. In it's simplest incarnation, you'd put the logo in a white square. More fancy stuff, like a short lower third insert, might be even better.
I will try starting with the logo smaller, and add a background color under the writing.

4) Font choice. A serif font, espacially one with such strong serifs, is very stable and static. However, the way you use it with wobbly effects, and later moving text, is the exact opposit. This font would require different behaviour, best would be a simple fade in. Since the game is rather static as well, this might result in boring visuals, especially along the exciting music, but it might also help to show that Simutrans is a slow-paced, relaxing game.
I will try using more sedate intro's and exit's for the text and see how it looks, I may also try going through the other Music in the 'music' folder in Simutrans and see what it is like with some of the other tracks.

5) The part about different map sizes has two issues. One is the general visual appeal of cropped Images. In this case, you pretty much change the size of the video area, and even when you zoom in, it crops. A better way to do this would be to record some szenery in the background and put a settings window on top of it, cropped out pixel perfect on the edge of the window. Thus, it appears as if it's a normal screen, but you can zoom in on the settings without changing the background.
However, it won't help much since the only thing you can show is a number telling the map size. You have no visual clue how big it really is, and someone who does not know simutrans does not even have the time to see which number you are supposed to look at. Maybe actually moving the mouse there and visually changing the number would do a better job.

Additionally, I would use the ingame maps of progressed games instead of empty ones. I'm sure in the community there are usable advanced maps. Showing a very small one next to a bigger one, both of course showing the movement of vehicles, should hammer home the idea of different map sizes.
You are right, the map size section does need work, I will be changing that entire section. I was advised that it would be good to highlight the ability to have different size maps, but hadn't given a lot of thought to other ways to show it. I may put together a clip of a few different ways of highlighting map sizes, to see what works, what doesn't, and what the community thinks works.

6) Night view. I don't feel like you can really see that the game is changing, rather then just the video getting darker. I suppose showing the effect in a city. To add some trickery, use a rather dense city with lots of vehicles, speed the game up to create a time-lapse-like effect, then show the screen getting darker by manually changing to night view.
I agree that the day night cycle does need to be shown more in the video, and will work on adding it into other sections.

7) End. I think the end should be like the start. Assuming you start the video with the logo on a white background, where the white fades to a game scene while the logo moves to it's corner, you can use the reverse effect for the end of the video, adding ".com" after the logo (font is either Highway Gothic or Roadgeek)
Sounds like a good idea, I will give it a try.

Online Leartin

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2015, 08:15:53 PM »
The only monitors I know that are "slightly bigger" than 1920x1080 are the corresponding 1920x1200 16:10 screens. They are rarer, and more expensive, at least around here, so that might not be an option for everybody. I have two at work, but was only able to get a 16:9 at home, however I bought my monitor when 16:10 seemed to go extinct.

True, but you don't need a bigger monitor, just a bigger screen resolution. I am not sure if it works with resolutions that high, but I recall using 1920*1080 on an old 1024*800 (or something like that) monitor. Obviously, it looked horribly on screen while filming, but the result was a video in the proper resolution. Another possibility where you would actually have all the pixels on a monitore can be done by using two monitors sideways. Again, probably not a pretty sight while recording, but that shouldn't matter to the resulting video.

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Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2015, 09:04:59 PM »
For a bright darkening city, either use one of the comic paks or pak64 Japan which has tons on ligh anymations and other stuff which lights up ...

For the text, I would also rather use various fadings. There is already happining a long on the screen (maybe a little too many scenes in the short time).

For a big and busy station with underground levels see here: https://www.sendspace.com/file/6g375c (pak128, may also need addons http://www.simutrans-forum.de/forum/index.php?page=Attachment&attachmentID=22460 and http://www.simutrans-forum.de/forum/index.php?page=Attachment&attachmentID=22461 )

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall

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Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2015, 09:26:48 PM »
Ah, yes, because everyone reads .ws as Western Samoa and not "website".

I explained what I did. If you don't like it, that's fine.

Whatever.

(I don't need praise for something people don't like, but please don't be stupid about it)

Offline Ters

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Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2015, 09:56:17 PM »
True, but you don't need a bigger monitor, just a bigger screen resolution. I am not sure if it works with resolutions that high, but I recall using 1920*1080 on an old 1024*800 (or something like that) monitor.

You can't just turn up the resolution. Old CRTs could perhaps be coaxed, they where analog, but LCDs won't. With digital cables, half of them doesn't support higher resolutions either. Nor was I talking about anything but resolutions. The next step above 1920x... is 2560x..., which is not what I would call "slightly bigger".

Ah, yes, because everyone reads .ws as Western Samoa and not "website".

I certainly don't read .ws as website. ws could be Web Service, though. .com means website, despite what it actually means. I don't know what we need the other top-level domain names for. Normal people hardly ever understood that it could be anything but .com. And most people use google. If you tell them to visit simutrans.com, they google "simutrans.com". The only thing we actually seem to need domain names for these days, is e-mail addresses and intranets beyond the reach of Google.

Offline isidoro

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2015, 10:07:21 PM »
This is a much improved video!

I don't like the way it starts.  As pointed out, the white font on a white background cannot be easily seen.  I don't like the fast moving font either.  It's somewhat disturbing.  When showing the maps, the Indian map is distorted.  And the configuration window before the maps seems too isolated against the black background and zooming in going all the way behind the captions.

I think that the main improvement would be a white font, but with a dark border for the letters so that there is contrast with all backgrounds.

I like the rest of the video.  I specially like the slow moving caption following the vehicles.

Offline sdog

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2015, 11:06:33 PM »
Ah, yes, because everyone reads .ws as Western Samoa and not "website".
I explained what I did. If you don't like it, that's fine.
[...]
(I don't need praise for something people don't like, but please don't be stupid about it)

Quote
I couldn't find a short name that wasn't more than I was willing to spend; and the reason for doing this instead of using simutrans.com is just to have something consistent globally

Sorry if I'm a bit thick as well. I don't understand the reason either. That is not to peck on you Isaac, just to say that the explanation didn't get through to all the audience. More concrete questions:

I haven't known that .ws is Western Samoa. Was this an arbitrary example or did you register simutrans.ws as well? Why India, that is a fairly well known top level domain (TLD). Do you want to get more international reach by having urls with many nation's TLDs?

Offline HaydenRead

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2015, 11:26:21 PM »
This is a much improved video!

I don't like the way it starts.  As pointed out, the white font on a white background cannot be easily seen.  I don't like the fast moving font either.  It's somewhat disturbing.  When showing the maps, the Indian map is distorted.  And the configuration window before the maps seems too isolated against the black background and zooming in going all the way behind the captions.

I think that the main improvement would be a white font, but with a dark border for the letters so that there is contrast with all backgrounds.

I like the rest of the video.  I specially like the slow moving caption following the vehicles.
Thanks for the feed back, the Indian map image is the one from http://maps.simutrans.com/asiamiddleeast.html and matches what it looks like when loaded into Simutrans.

I will try increasing the border size of the font, changing to fades, as oposed to movement for the text, start the logo on a White background (and keep the bottom part of the logo on a white background even after it has 'minimized' down to the bottom corner. I am in the process of creating a much better visual for the map size section of the video.

In regards to the Map Size section, this video is an idea for how to change this section of the video.
Note that as previously discussed, I will get some full screen captures to get rid of the black bars at the top and bottom of the videos.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 12:53:53 AM by HaydenRead »

Online Leartin

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2015, 06:07:06 AM »
You can't just turn up the resolution. [...] Nor was I talking about anything but resolutions.

Depending on Graphics Card: Yes, you can just turn up the resolution, even using custom resolutions (which can be just a few pixels bigger). GeForce "Dynamic Super Resolution" allows Shadowplay to record in up to 4k independent on actual monitor resolution, and Shadowplay has a desktop-recording functionality. Since I don't use nvidea, I don't know if you can combine those functions.
I may have misread you since you talked about physical monitors and their expense, as if I would want Hayden to spend money on better equipment. But that's surely not needed, worst case we can just create savegames and give them to any community member who actually has the physical equipment to record, then go from there.

Offline Ters

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Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2015, 06:18:59 AM »
I may have misread you since you talked about physical monitors and their expense, as if I would want Hayden to spend money on better equipment. But that's surely not needed

My monitor is 1920x1080, and the sliders in display settings don't go any higher. I would have needed better equipment to record at anything higher. That's all I have to go by. Yes, I was talking about physical monitors, but about resolution, not physical size (except that size must change when changing aspect ratio, which is one way of being able to crop title bar and task bar, but the change in price is higher than the change in size).

Another thing is that Simutrans begins to run poorly at higher resolutions, and that is without recording video at the same time.

Online Leartin

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2015, 10:47:52 AM »
My monitor is 1920x1080, and the sliders in display settings don't go any higher.[...]
Sorry, no, windows display settings can't unless you hack them. I don't use those anymore, since tools provided with graphic cards leave you with more options. Additionally, an old monitor which is more than 1080 px broad does the trick, if you combine it with the 1920*1080 monitor and turn both sideways. Again, something I'm not sure you can do with windows display settings, but is certainly possible.
Does this explain the idea, or should I additionally mention that at least one 2048x1152px monitor exists for several years (I happen to know since a friend has it), and there is an old one on amazon germany for € 160,-? So yes, slightly higher resolutions in monitors do exist and are not too expensive, although any money spent in this case would be too much, since you really don't need to.

Another thing is that Simutrans begins to run poorly at higher resolutions, and that is without recording video at the same time.
This raises a good point: Do we need a 1080p-video, or is 720p enough?
It seems many parts are already recorded zooming in. On full zoom, Simutrans uses a weird kind of nearest neighbour with special rules for black pixels or sprite edges (same thing in comic pak, so I'm not sure) - this is a good method for the pixel-based comic paks, but rendered paks probably would benefit from bicubic interpolation. Which I think is used when you watch a 720p video on a 1080p screen. So, recording in a smaller resolution would create bigger elements on the video, which can easier be seen even on smaller screens/windows, while upscaling for big monitors shouldn't be too bad either.

Offline isidoro

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2015, 09:52:30 PM »
Thanks for the feed back, the Indian map image is the one from http://maps.simutrans.com/asiamiddleeast.html and matches what it looks like when loaded into Simutrans.
[...]

Perhaps then it isn't the best choice.  The other ones look good, though.

The contrast between background and font is still an issue, imho.  Look for example this image:

taken from: http://www.mediachance.com/dvdlab/Helppro/subtitles.htm

As you can see, the light font must have dark outlines and/or shadows so that there is contrast against  dark as well as light backgrounds, so that it can be easily read.

Offline dwpvdk

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2015, 09:55:14 PM »
This is a really good video as it covers all the main aspects of Simutrans.

I have two suggestions:

  • The text is a little difficult to read. I think if the stroke on the text were increased by 0.5 to 1.0 pixels, it would clear it up (especially for the still with the snow.) Make sure that "fill over stroke" is set for the best results with any use of stroke.
  • I like the change to nighttime at the end, but I think it is a little fast. There are a couple ways to solve this, but because the video dimensions encompass the whole of the Simutrans window, there is no possibility of manipulating the brightness level "off-camera" while recording the video. The remaining way is to record in a world wherein the bits-per-month setting is jacked up to "24" (making the night come on the most slowly).

Opinions from Previous Experience:

Personally, I don't think it's necessary to get such large-dimensioned video and sacrifice the style and quality thereby. All my Simutrans videos have been recorded at a maximum 960×540 with playback at 480p on YouTube. I just got a new machine, so I might move up to 780p with my increased capability, but I feel that anything higher is just unnecessary, especially for Simutrans what with its graphics. As well, if the dimensions are lessened, then footage without the toolbars can be captured, which always looks nice.

I have become accustomed to seeing quality video of Simutrans with the station names and waiting bars turned off; this is most likely just a personal thing, but I feel that such look sort of tacky.

However,

I am someone myself who first caught a look at Simutrans from this video; despite its simple and straightforward nature, I was enamored with the things I could discern were possible from the footage of a truck (not even a train, indeed) traveling along a highway in the game. Simutrans seems to be a game for those who like the small details, and your video pulls these things to the forefront of the viewer's attention.

A question for everyone:

Would it be good to have more than one promo vid? If so, I might be persuaded to try to make one too, perhaps about a specific topic or feature if it is thusly desired...

EDIT: fill over stroke, (not stroke over fill)
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 01:56:13 AM by dwpvdk »

Offline HaydenRead

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2015, 11:11:42 PM »
This is a really good video as it covers all the main aspects of Simutrans.

I have two suggestions:

  • The text is a little difficult to read. I think if the stroke on the text were increased by 0.5 to 1.0 pixels, it would clear it up (especially for the still with the snow.) Make sure that "stroke over fill" is set for the best results with any use of stroke.
  • I like the change to nighttime at the end, but I think it is a little fast. There are a couple ways to solve this, but because the video dimensions encompass the whole of the Simutrans window, there is no possibility of manipulating the brightness level "off-camera" while recording the video. The remaining way is to record in a world wherein the bits-per-month setting is jacked up to "24" (making the night come on the most slowly).
Would it be good to have more than one promo vid? If so, I might be persuaded to try to make one too, perhaps about a specific topic or feature if it is thusly desired...
I will definately be changing the text (both changing the font, trying fades as opposed to moving the text in, and trying different color, outline, and shadow options).
Will take a look at changing the speed of the fade to night at the end of the video.
The 'Snow' one is actually the 'Hand Drawn' Pak.
And yes, I think multiple promo vid's would be good (from a 'Steam Greenlight' perspective the main issue is making sure when it is placed on youtube that advertising is not enabled for the video, or the adverts will come through to Steam as well).

Offline dwpvdk

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2015, 01:55:06 AM »
And yes, I think multiple promo vid's would be good (from a 'Steam Greenlight' perspective the main issue is making sure when it is placed on youtube that advertising is not enabled for the video, or the adverts will come through to Steam as well).

What YouTube channel have you been posting the video on? Can I use this channel as well (you can PM me details)?

...this brings up another question. Is there an official Simutrans YouTube channel? If not, should there be one? I suppose it could be something specifically connected with the proposed Steam page or even the website and forum themselves? Any thoughts?

Offline Yona-TYT

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2015, 02:19:57 AM »
@dwpvdk

Interesting question, I guess An_dz not became aware of this when I update   website Simutrans. :o

Offline An_dz

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Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2015, 03:02:36 AM »
Interesting question, I guess An_dz not became aware of this when I update   website Simutrans. :o
sdog manages the Simutrans official YouTube page, because he's responsible for the G+ page. It's http://youtube.com/simutrans. Though the url won't be pretty after loading this page.

Since we don't have any uploaded video it was of no value adding on the website. The old site had a link that only did a YouTube search.

Offline sdog

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2015, 03:04:58 AM »
What YouTube channel have you been posting the video on? Can I use this channel as well (you can PM me details)?

...this brings up another question. Is there an official Simutrans YouTube channel? If not, should there be one? I suppose it could be something specifically connected with the proposed Steam page or even the website and forum themselves? Any thoughts?
We have an official simutrans channel. It is only not very well known, because we don't have any videos whatsoever.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHLHhLInE51ZFamEqBWfZjg
http://youtube.com/simutrans.
It is linked to the G+ Simutrans site with a few hundred followers. We would be very happy to host videos on that channel that are representative of simutrans.


edit: An_dz got the channel name right.

Offline HaydenRead

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2015, 08:10:38 AM »
http://youtube.com/simutrans.
It is linked to the G+ Simutrans site with a few hundred followers. We would be very happy to host videos on that channel that are representative of simutrans.
I will make sure to pass the final version on to you to upload to the official youtube channel once it is complete.

Offline Yona-TYT

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2015, 09:11:35 PM »




Networks must also be included.
And a theme GUI would look good too.  :thumbsup:



Offline HaydenRead

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2015, 02:07:50 AM »
Some issues to consider - How long should a promotional video be (I am thinking somewhere between 2 & 5 minutes), and how many 'features' can really be displayed in the given length? And what is the most expedient way to display the features?

Would it be a good idea to have a Promo video that provides a quick high level overview of the main features of Simutrans, and have various additional videos going into depth about various features?

What are the 'Core' features that should be emphasized in the video? and how long should be spent looking at each feature?

If the video is too long, are users likely to tune out and loose interest in the video?

Features that have been mentioned so far are:
  • Variety of Pak Sets
  • Varying Map Sizes
  • Ability to Import Height Maps
  • The various modes of Transport (Road, Rail, Ship, Airplane, Monorail, Trams)
  • Networks
  • GUI Themes
  • Day / Night Cycle
  • Signals etc
  • Varying Zoom Levels
Looking at a 3 minute video, with 9 items in the list gives an average of 20 seconds to convey each item... Less if you take into account an intro and exit section of the video...

In addition, should a separate Video be created featuring Multiplayer aspects, or should that be included in the main Promotional Video?

Offline sdog

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2015, 03:56:00 AM »

If the video is too long, are users likely to tune out and loose interest in the video?
Indeed, and it will be difficult to follow. Do a few things, but do those well. In other words, ignore a lot of the advise we give you. We are brainstorming,  you decide.
Quote

Features that have been mentioned so far are:
  • Variety of Pak Sets
No, this is not only not important when deciding greenlight, but it is detrimental. When you start your presentation with a default pakset, and then tell, but hey, it's not really that good, you can chose another one. If the latter were better, why not use it in the first place? If it is worse, why mention? Of course the reality is more complex, but there is no room in those few minutes.
Furthermore, it only matters for someone who already likes the game. If you see something you aren't very interested in, someone telling you you can have it in green and red as well doesn't persuade you to like it. When you like it, the second aspect doesn't matter either.

Quote
  • Varying Map Sizes
This is trivial. Not worth to mention. When you do, do it indirectly of giving the scope from local transport to continental scales.

Quote
  • Ability to Import Height Maps
Likewise, not very important or special.

Quote
  • The various modes of Transport (Road, Rail, Ship, Airplane, Monorail, Trams)
Yes this is important. It is not only a train game but a full transport simulator.
Also freight and pax!

Quote
  • Networks
show them, they make things more easy to understand, you don't have to mention them as a feature, but use them for explanation.
Quote
  • GUI Themes
seriously? Who cares? Does someone buy a car because you can have the wheel in three different colours?
Quote
  • Day / Night Cycle
eyecandy. Use it only as a tool for visual impact, or for fading out the video. Not an important feature at all.

Quote
  • Signals etc
that might be worth mentioning that the signalling system allows complex train networks. show together with such complex networks.
Quote
  • Varying Zoom Levels
not worth to mention as a feature, but might be handy to show the scope of a game. If it looks rubbish in the video, ignore it.

People need to know why it is fun to play a game, what you can get from it. They don't need to know the trivial details or that it has hundred thousands of parameters to set.

Lets think about what makes simutrans so very dear to us!
What fascinates me:

  • simutrans is a game that uses simple principles to reach a highly complex non-linear system. Eg, think, the network effect when adding a new pax station.
  • simutrans has a small very active development and graphics community. (Here i contradict my above statement) which makes wonderful large quirky worlds.
  • nostalgia for pixel art (this is pretty hip at the moment).
  • i get super addicted by simutrans, in particular online games. I've started one three years ago and couldn't stop. That's why i keep my fingers off.
  • DIY attitude, watching as it gets developed is enjoyable in itself. In particular as it is going on for nearly two decades now!
« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 04:08:17 AM by sdog »

Offline Yona-TYT

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2015, 05:26:05 AM »

seriously? Who cares? Does someone buy a car because you can have the wheel in three different colours?
You're right, but reality what I meant was to use a theme to give a nicer appearance to the interface.

Offline Vladki

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2015, 08:02:48 AM »
I think the most important feature, distinguishing simutrans from other such games (openttd) is that all cargo (and pax and mail) have their destination and will transfer between vehicles.

Networks are a naturall outcome of this feature, but not so important alone.

All other things (paks, themes, snow, night, mapsize, heightmap, zoom) are eyecandy and should be used to make the video look nice, but do not need to be emphasized that much.

Offline HaydenRead

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2015, 09:06:34 PM »
Just posted the 4th attempt at the promotional video:

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Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2015, 10:10:15 PM »
I think there is great progress. I really appreciate your enthusiasm, and I think you can focus now on the other thing needed.

Offline isidoro

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #38 on: December 20, 2015, 10:39:30 PM »
I agree.  Congratulations!

Offline Yona-TYT

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #39 on: December 20, 2015, 11:31:14 PM »

It looks great, good job! :thumbsup:


At the end of the video it would be good to show icons Linux, Windows and Mac.

Offline sdog

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #40 on: December 21, 2015, 01:47:56 AM »
That is a good video Hayden. At the middle it gets a little slow, showing different ways being built. I'd focus a bit less on that, as building ways is understood. That is an established concept. I.e, you need to show that it is done and an important game element, but do not have to explain how it is done. What is a bit short in the video however, is the actual transporting of things.

Offline Yona-TYT

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #41 on: December 21, 2015, 06:43:22 AM »
That is a good video Hayden. At the middle it gets a little slow, showing different ways being built. I'd focus a bit less on that, as building ways is understood. That is an established concept. I.e, you need to show that it is done and an important game element, but do not have to explain how it is done. What is a bit short in the video however, is the actual transporting of things.
In my humble opinion it seems to me very well to show the building process, though if I noticed a bit slow in that part of the video. Perhaps an increase in speed makes a difference.

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Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2015, 02:00:46 AM »
I would like to raise a point which can be polemic: the music. *dun dun duuuun*

The video starts and goes well until 0:08, then it makes me cringe; it's my opinion. It used to fit well during the MIDI era.

If one wants to try, I recommend using 3rd-party music for the promo video. The site incompetech.com is quite popular amongst YouTubers and game-content creators. The musician Kevin MacLeod releases all his work under CC-BY license, requiring only you put the credits somewhere and that you don't use it in a commercial or TV/radio broadcast (for this is where his income comes from).

These are my picks:

http://incompetech.com/music/royalty-free/index.html?isrc=USUAN1500072 (pick me! pick me! pick me! pick me!)
http://incompetech.com/music/royalty-free/index.html?isrc=USUAN1100845 (steam loco?)
http://incompetech.com/music/royalty-free/index.html?isrc=USUAN1500051
http://incompetech.com/music/royalty-free/index.html?isrc=USUAN1100848
http://incompetech.com/music/royalty-free/index.html?isrc=USUAN1100803
http://incompetech.com/music/royalty-free/index.html?isrc=USUAN1100793
http://incompetech.com/music/royalty-free/index.html?isrc=USUAN1200040

You can find other good ones under "Bouncy" tag found in the "Feels" drop-drown filter here: http://incompetech.com/music/royalty-free/music.html

Offline sdog

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2015, 02:43:31 AM »
In my humble opinion it seems to me very well to show the building process, though if I noticed a bit slow in that part of the video. Perhaps an increase in speed makes a difference.
Yes, it does indeed. However, this is not a tutorial. There is no need to explain how to build ways. It is important that it is shown that the player builds the ways, but briefly. Too many details bores the viewers. Put yourself in the shoes of someone reviewing greenlight games:

One gets a number presented by Steam, then one has a look at them, when it is of no interest, just click to the next greenlight game. In such a presentation this means the player has to be kept engaged as long as possible.

Building ways in a tile based world was new in 1990, in this way since 1994 (Transport Tycoon) this is expected behaviour.

@Hayden
It is very good that the videos now stick with one pak, pak128. Only at the end others are shown, as examples for the variety. It is important not to confuse, by changing not too many parameters at a time.

I love the comparison of 'small world' to 'huge world', that is fun to look at.

 Does this also mean that it is decided upon that 128 will be the default pak for steam? Or would you change that for a final version, if required (e.g. if pak 64 were selected)?

Some people on the forum did fairly good voice overs to their videos, do you think it were beneficial were there voice, not only text? For example James' videos were quite whimsical, since he imitated the ideosyncracies of old British educational videos.

Offline HaydenRead

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2015, 08:36:29 AM »
@Hayden
It is very good that the videos now stick with one pak, pak128. Only at the end others are shown, as examples for the variety. It is important not to confuse, by changing not too many parameters at a time.

 Does this also mean that it is decided upon that 128 will be the default pak for steam? Or would you change that for a final version, if required (e.g. if pak 64 were selected)?
I was thinking either pak128, pak128+pak64, or a stripped down / simplified version of pak128 for Steam, and I am working on a Manual and Tutorial based around pak128. It could still change, and if it did, I would change the video to match.

Some people on the forum did fairly good voice overs to their videos, do you think it were beneficial were there voice, not only text? For example James' videos were quite whimsical, since he imitated the ideosyncracies of old British educational videos.
I did consider a voice over, and could still do that, it is just that doing a voice over well seems to take a fair bit more time, getting a decent recording with no stuttering, misquotes, background noise, and flowing nicely. I may still do another video with a voice over.
I would like to raise a point which can be polemic: the music. *dun dun duuuun*

The video starts and goes well until 0:08, then it makes me cringe; it's my opinion. It used to fit well during the MIDI era.
My reason for using 'MIDI' music is that MIDI music is the music provided with the game, so it fits with the game. The track used is one of the in game music options. If work were done to update the music system for Simutrans, and include other music options, then I would be more inclined to look at other music options for the video. However if enough people are concerned about the music I will change it, either to one of the other included tracks, or to a non-midi track if people are really concerned about the use of midi music.

Offline dwpvdk

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #45 on: December 22, 2015, 08:28:52 PM »
As for the Simutrans music, I think that it is too slow and lacking in quality for use in videos about Simutrans. Only when I first started to play did I myself even listen to the music; it doesn't seem to be crucial that the video include Simutrans music and sacrifice the appeal of the video and thus the game. There are many creators of Simutrans content who use the MIDI tracks, but it seems outdated for this application.

If one wants to try, I recommend using 3rd-party music for the promo video. The site incompetech.com is quite popular amongst YouTubers and game-content creators. The musician Kevin MacLeod releases all his work under CC-BY license, requiring only you put the credits somewhere and that you don't use it in a commercial or TV/radio broadcast (for this is where his income comes from).
If you decide to look at other music, incompetech is wonderful; I have used many of Kevin MacLeod's songs in my videos though not as of late. Another great resource to look into is television and movie OST, much whereof is instrumental.

I greatly discourage the idea of voicing-over the video: right off the bat, you lose the attention of those not fluent in spoken English who might otherwise be able to glean information from the written words. (I don't know much about whether Steam is used outside the USA. This might not be an issue.)

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Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #46 on: December 22, 2015, 09:27:27 PM »
As with the previous comments: Voice over is much harder for most internet-able persons that text. (Ideally those could be subtitles, transalateable into any language ... )

About MIDI: Somebody made once a recording on a proper Synth which was much nicer than the typical Simutrans sound. Maybe it was even Isaac. (I did not found the posting though.)

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall

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Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #47 on: December 22, 2015, 09:36:15 PM »
I don't remember if I was the only one, but I did at some point do that. I basically just imported into Fruityloops (FL Studio) and played around with the instrument settings until I liked it.

I know I don't have the files anymore, and currently I don't have that available to me. I don't even currently have my laptop for a few days (long story), which is the only device I have running Windows.

So it will take me a few days. Meanwhile, if someone else would like to give it a go, they certainly can. But when I get my laptop back, I'll give it a go at that time and see if it's desired. No worries either way :)

Offline Yona-TYT

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #48 on: December 22, 2015, 11:28:15 PM »

Offline isidoro

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #49 on: December 23, 2015, 12:46:44 AM »
If possible, I'm for leaving the original game music in the video, albeit resampled if needed.  It's a plus for ST to have its own music.  Not very common for an not-professional game.  Plus I like the piece chosen.


Offline IgorEliezer

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Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #50 on: December 23, 2015, 03:02:36 AM »
18-ride-that-train.mp3
Way better. The improvement is huge. Now I regret my idea if our OST can be this good.

If possible, I'm for leaving the original game music in the video, albeit resampled if needed. It's a plus for ST to have its own music.
In this case, I second this. :)

Offline sdog

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #51 on: January 04, 2016, 03:43:03 AM »
Hayden, how can we get the video also to the official Simutrans youtube channel? Would you like to get manager power for it?

Offline HaydenRead

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #52 on: January 04, 2016, 06:51:11 AM »
Hayden, how can we get the video also to the official Simutrans youtube channel? Would you like to get manager power for it?
Hi sdog,
I don't mind if you give me manager access to the channel or not, so I have also uploaded the mp4 file if you would prefer to put it on youtube yourself.
The file can be found at http://opensourcepublishing.co/videos/Simutrans.mp4

I may look at creating additional videos after I have finished working on the Tutorial and Manual that I am currently working on for the game.

Offline sdog

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #53 on: January 05, 2016, 04:02:47 AM »
cheers!

I'm downloading it, and shall see to get it up on youtube.

Offline TurfIt

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #54 on: January 07, 2016, 04:02:29 AM »
Oh my that music... I realize sounding 'good' can be subjective, but a little better choice of patch set would've made a huge difference. Simutrans midi can actually sound quite nice with a good synth/patch combo.

Offline HaydenRead

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #55 on: January 10, 2016, 03:46:23 AM »
With being greenlit, we can now use 'language specific videos' on steam, so was wondering if someone can translate the text from the promotional video. If it can be translated, I will upload separate versions, otherwise I will stick with the current English version. Languages that would be good to have if possible are 'English (existing), French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Hungarian, Czech'... and any other languages that users feel to assist with (shouldn't take too long to paste them into the existing text boxes in the video and generate new versions).

Offline isidoro

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #56 on: January 10, 2016, 11:47:47 PM »
Could you please stick the English sentences here so that it's easier for us to translate?

Offline HaydenRead

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #57 on: January 11, 2016, 12:17:44 AM »
Could you please stick the English sentences here so that it's easier for us to translate?
The text from the video is below:

Simutrans is a Transportation Network Simulator

that allows Simulation on a range of scales,
from a tiny area, through to large scale simulations.

There are a range of options to build your Network:
  • Buses, Trucks, and other Road Vehicles
  • Trains & Trams
  • Ships
  • Airplanes

Build your network using a range of tools...
  • both above and below ground
  • Build Causeways and Bridges
  • Underground Subway Systems

Simutrans also offers an online Multiplayer Option
To compete or co-operate with others
To build your Transportation Network

In addition there are a range of Pak's
Offering a variety of graphics and Rule Sets
Such as:
  • Sci-Fi
  • Hand Drawn
  • Comic, and others

Offline Yona-TYT

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #58 on: January 11, 2016, 02:12:33 AM »

Translation to Spanish/Español.
Simutrans es un Simulador de Redes de Transporte

que permite Simulaciones en un rango de escalas,
desde un área pequeña, hasta simulaciones de gran tamaño.

Hay una serie de opciones para construir su Red:
  • Autobuses, Camiones y otros Vehículos de Carretera
  • Trenes y Tranvías
  • Embarcaciones
  • Aviones
Construye tu red utilizando una gama de herramientas ...
  • tanto por encima como por debajo del suelo
  • Construcción de Vías Elevadas y Puentes
  • Sistemas de Metro Subterráneo
Simutrans también ofrece una opción multijugador en línea
  • Para competir o cooperar con los demás
  • Para construir su red de transporte
Además, cuenta con distintos Pakset
Ofreciendo una variedad de gráficos con distintas de reglas
Tales Como:
  • Sci-Fi (Ciencia Ficción)
  • Hand Drawn (Dibujado a mano)
  • Comic, y otros

I gladly also I translate the tutorial.  ;)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 02:23:54 AM by Yona-TYT »

Offline HarrierST

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #59 on: January 11, 2016, 03:23:37 AM »
The text from the video is below:
In addition there are a range of Pak's
Offering a variety of graphics and Rule Sets
Such as:
  • Sci-Fi
  • Hand Drawn
  • Comic, and others

I would also add to the list - country specific sets.

Britain, Germany , Japan etc.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 02:26:07 PM by HarrierST »

Offline HaydenRead

Re: Simutrans Promotional Video
« Reply #60 on: January 12, 2016, 09:32:50 AM »
I gladly also I translate the tutorial.  ;)
Thanks, I will probably take you up on this offer - I am about 1/5 of the way through writing the Tutorial Scenario at the moment, and will probably try and get a few people to play test it before translating to make sure nothing needs to be changed before it is translated.