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[11.35] - Problems with canal bridge(s)

Started by Spenk009, December 21, 2014, 09:24:05 PM

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Spenk009

My save to showcase the issue: http://ul.to/c75thf7h, run on Exp 11.35 and Pakbritain 0.9.1

Whenever the save game is loaded the canal bridge center in view (east of Petwell, joining river south to power station) seems to lose connection. Within 3:00 minutes in-game, a narrowboat will complain that it cannot find a route. Replacing the bridge with a new one pleases them and they all continue on their schedules.

Also, when placing bridges I have lots of trouble getting trains to accept them. Generally, if I have some tracks and trains already running over them, removing the rails and placing a bridge/elevated way will confuse the convoys and even though everything is fixed and they would take the exact same path, they still tend to strike. Using the b/B key and resetting the block reservations doesn't help.

Anyone encountered or have a solution for this?

jamespetts

The problem appears to be that the slope tile is erroneously set to the wrong way constraint upon loading. Investigating further...
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Spenk009

The boats have the permission to use "barge canal/small river". It's just that the centre of the bridge seems to have two permissions. Could they be interacting harmfully?

jamespetts

The boats can use the even more restrictive "narrow canal" (I am not sure why you are using narrowboats rather than barges on this route, actually, as all of your canals are barge canals), but a single slope tile of the bridge is marked as the most restrictive of all the types, the tub boat canal, and your boats then cannot pass.
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DrSuperGood

What is the point of the smaller water way types anyway? They seem to carry so few units they are impractical to use.

jamespetts

The smaller canals are intended to be cheaper to build, although there is a bug in the costs in 0.9.1. The types of vehicles that they carry is based on real narrow canals.
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Spenk009

#6
Using smaller canals and rivers may be beneficial when starting out, with some rivers stretching out over 1000 tiles before reaching the sea. Smaller boats can get further upstream to industries on smaller rivers.

I used narrowboats because the first 250 tiles of the journey take course on an upstream small river the tile the depot is on only allows narrowboats (I only just noticed this ;-) ).  Goods were never a priority, I just wanted to see whether electric networks can be profitable. The rail goods route in the south-west is the result of finding several industries that will utilize the line up to the shore. I see less of a challenge in goods, as they aren't very time sensitive and (to me) benefit little from the improvements of Experimental over Standard. The main focus of this map was to create a sensible and fast passenger network from the start, without using several companies or excessive help from the public player.



Note: The upstream small river only allows for a maximum of 80t per vehicle. This means the boats only load 50% of their max capacity unless the river is converted to a canal or the transfer station is moved eastwards 250 blocks/ 16 miles

Spenk009

The issue with the bridges:



Everything is connected and electrified. Using waypoints the convoy is coached as far forwards as it will go, which is the last block before the end block of the bridge. It seems like the bridge end is causing the issue.
Maybe I should have cropped the image a little. After a reload, the issue disappears.

jamespetts

Thank you for that. May I ask how to reproduce that issue for somebody loading the saved game that you sent me?
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Junna

This looks like an old bug where, on a railway slope electrified before the bridge was rebuilt or so, the tile will revert to just "electrified" as opposed to AC/DC/third rail. Should work if you de-electrify the bridge start tiles and re-electrify with the proper type.

jamespetts

Spenk - can you confirm whether the bug is as Junna describes?
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Spenk009

Yes, this is the exact bug.


Here the bridge is removed, the end track pieces remain electrified (and remain labeled AC) and a new bridge is built on top of the end rail of the old track. During the construction/tile conversion the electrification remains, but the type of electrification is lost.

Does this have anything to do with the fact that the track bridge base pieces are always reverted to the lowest/highest available type?

jamespetts

#12
I have finally managed to fix these two bugs on the way-improvements branch: thank you for the reports.

Edit: Incidentally, as to this:

Quote from: Spenk009Note: The upstream small river only allows for a maximum of 80t per vehicle. This means the boats only load 50% of their max capacity unless the river is converted to a canal or the transfer station is moved eastwards 250 blocks/ 16 miles

I do not fully understand this: the diesel barge (that is, not narrowboat) has a tare weight of 20t and a cargo weight of 50t, making a total of 80t. The narrowboat is lighter and has a smaller capacity. What boat exactly is too heavy when fully laden to use the upstream river?
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Spenk009

Good news then, thank you very much for fixing that frustrating error.

I was using trailers/barges on the diesel barges, which extend the capacity to 100t. This renders the convoy with a maximum weight of 135t. Is the use of the "trailer" barges intended?

jamespetts

The use of trailer barges is indeed intended, but, for anything other than bridges, what counts is the weight of the vehicle, not the weight of the convoy.
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Spenk009

Weight of the part of the convoy per tile perhaps, both members starting in the first tile? The vehicles would only load up to 55% or so and never leave the dock (load < 100%). In any case, I'll replace the narrows for barges when I find the time to play again.

jamespetts

Quote from: Spenk009 on December 24, 2014, 11:14:02 PM
Weight of the part of the convoy per tile perhaps, both members starting in the first tile? The vehicles would only load up to 55% or so and never leave the dock (load < 100%). In any case, I'll replace the narrows for barges when I find the time to play again.

Vehicles do not limit their loading based on weight limits, so this might be another issue entirely. Could that be the same issue as discussed (and fixed) here?
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