Author Topic: No ships to move livestock?  (Read 4362 times)

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Offline AP

No ships to move livestock?
« on: November 22, 2012, 10:56:58 PM »
Playing the 0.8.4 version in 1785, most of the industries are agricultural. But there's no way to move livestock by sea, which on a map like the current online game (which I'm now playing offline with a greatly increased industry density), is a bit of a problem. There are no canal barges nor ocean going ships (or deepwater ferries, if you prefer) which are suitable.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: No ships to move livestock?
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2012, 11:35:34 PM »
Thank you for your report of this issue. I have moved it to the Pak128.Britain Standard board, as the issue applies equally there. One question: do you know whether there was any historical precedent for moving livestock by water in the 18th century? If so, this is definitely an omission that needs remedying.
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Offline wlindley

Re: No ships to move livestock?
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2012, 05:26:52 AM »
The colonists who came to America starting in the 1600s brought quantities of livestock -- cattle, goats, sheep, horses -- from England.

Offline The Hood

Re: No ships to move livestock?
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2012, 09:28:55 AM »
I noticed the same when I last played a game. It should probably be rectified (although I must admit I have no idea about the historicity of transporting livestock on inland waterways, it must have happened at sea). Some of the recent goods ships I have drawn can transport livestock.

Offline greenling

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Re: No ships to move livestock?
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2012, 09:46:08 AM »
Excuse me.
gives a modern livestock transporter for oceans in pak128.britain?
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Offline AP

Re: No ships to move livestock?
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2012, 11:12:07 AM »
One question: do you know whether there was any historical precedent for moving livestock by water in the 18th century? If so, this is definitely an omission that needs remedying.
I presume that livestock transport across and along rivers by barge/wherry must have gone on as an everyday occurance.. And likewise by sea in order to get livestock to and from the many outlying islands of the british isles (otherwise Ireland would have no cows/sheep etc).

Map of drove roads of scotland includes some clear routes over water... http://www.ambaile.org.uk/en/item/map_zoom.jsp?item_id=92165&zoom=3

Offline jamespetts

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Re: No ships to move livestock?
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2012, 11:45:27 AM »
Interesting. What did livestock boats look like, I wonder...?
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Offline The Hood

Re: No ships to move livestock?
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2012, 12:11:30 PM »
Probably fairly similar to normal boats. Smaller ones I guess would just have the animals in pens on deck, while larger ships would have them below. I will go back and do livestock versions of all cargo boats I feel would be realistic. It's just a shame that, given that boats are the sort of vehicle that could carry various different cargo types (e.g. piece goods one way, livestock back) that we can't define multiple cargo types for the same vehicle (in an OR configuration). Extension request coming on...

Offline jamespetts

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Re: No ships to move livestock?
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2012, 12:20:13 PM »
Indeed. In the early days of railways (1820s), passengers were carried in coal wagons...
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Offline AP

Re: No ships to move livestock?
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2012, 12:53:46 PM »
It's just a shame that, given that boats are the sort of vehicle that could carry various different cargo types (e.g. piece goods one way, livestock back) that we can't define multiple cargo types for the same vehicle (in an OR configuration). Extension request coming on...
Seconded.

Offline The Hood

Re: No ships to move livestock?
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2012, 08:59:21 PM »
OK, I've added livestock versions for ships to standard SVN. Most re-use existing graphics but some have got new graphics. I've also added a Clan Line Steamer and Handysize capable of carrying cars as these also had no ships capable of transporting them.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: No ships to move livestock?
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2012, 10:03:15 PM »
Excellent!
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Offline MCollett

Re: No ships to move livestock?
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2012, 11:02:15 PM »
Indeed. In the early days of railways (1820s), passengers were carried in coal wagons...

I doubt that paying passengers were ever so carried on a regular basis.  It is true that at the opening of the Stockton & Darlington non-VIP guests travelled in coal wagons, but those were presumably brand-new wagons that had not yet actually carried any coal. 

Best wishes,
Matthew

Offline kierongreen

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Re: No ships to move livestock?
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2012, 11:59:46 PM »
Cattle can be (and were regularly) made to swim across surprisingly wide bodies of water - several miles of open sea for example.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: No ships to move livestock?
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2012, 12:55:48 AM »
Cattle can be (and were regularly) made to swim across surprisingly wide bodies of water - several miles of open sea for example.

Intriguing! How were they accompanied?
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Offline kierongreen

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Re: No ships to move livestock?
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2012, 09:16:05 AM »
By a person in a small rowing boat I'd assume!

Offline wlindley

Re: No ships to move livestock?
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2013, 12:14:42 PM »
Clearly the Livestock Drover dat-file should have the capability, able_to_ford_streams (albeit not in a single bound).  Or could we define a Livestock Raft? 

p.s., Livestock must have been commonly carried on ships, see for example "Swiss Family Robinson" (1812).  The 1960 movie has a scene where cattle and mules swim alongside the raft from the shipwreck.  Livestock also would have been commonly carried on-board a raft or ferry on gentler waters; that is a familiar scene from American Pioneer days certainly as early as the 1700s.  (Or on Mexican buses today...)

Offline jamespetts

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Re: No ships to move livestock?
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2013, 09:11:06 PM »
Better, I think, would be a "bridleway" waytype that can ford rivers but on which wheeled vehicles cannot pass: this could be encoded using Experimental's way constraints.
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