The International Simutrans Forum

 

Author Topic: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"  (Read 10586 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Carl

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 1572
    • Website
  • Languages: EN
This will be of interest to some here:

The next version of MS Visual Studio Express won't be able to produce conventional desktop applications -- only the $400 professional version will have this capability.

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/05/no-cost-desktop-software-development-is-dead-on-windows-8/

It's very hard to understand what on earth Microsoft are playing at with Windows 8.

Offline Markohs

  • DevTeam, Coder/patcher
  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 1559
  • Languages: EN,ES,CAT
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2012, 12:07:49 PM »
indeed, very strange

EDIT: Sounds like the typical business decision that's taken because if it's successful and Microsoft regains presence on the Desktop again will be called as a pure genius move.

 But I fail to see how can it be, it's a absurd move imho.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2012, 12:44:05 PM by Markohs »

Offline kierongreen

  • Dev Team, Coder/patcher
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 2269
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2012, 06:03:45 PM »
When I started programming most compilers were not free. So in a sense this is just turning the clock back a few years. Microsoft isn't the only choice for development on Windows anyway - mingw and gcc work fairly well for a start.

Offline VS

  • Senior Plumber (Devotee)
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 4855
  • Vladimír Slávik
    • VS's Simutrans site
  • Languages: CS,EN
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2012, 06:32:31 PM »
To be honest, the screen/touch duality sounds just weird. We'll see. Somehow, I think that the results of this move are collateral damage from the whole situation, where computing is appleifying (maybe there is a better term). I don't entirely like where this is going, but we'll just have to see...

edit: Idle speculations - if this means end of the Windows desktop as such, where will the people go to now? Is this where "linux on desktop" scores?

Offline greenling

  • Lounger
  • *
  • Posts: 1728
  • Simutransarchology it my hobby!
  • Languages: DE,EN
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2012, 06:49:08 PM »
I Don´t like tochscreens! ::'(

Offline Ters

  • Coder/patcher
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 5469
  • Languages: EN, NO
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2012, 07:48:16 PM »
If Windows 8 fails as a desktop OS, people will just stick to Windows 7. Some haven't even moved on from Windows XP, and I got a support call from someone who was still using Windows 98 at work a few months ago. Apple could gain some more users as long as they don't also go all appy. Likely also Linux, but I'm still not impressed by Linux as a desktop OS.

And almost like kierongreen, when I started programming, the free version of Microsoft Visual Studio could only make ActiveX components. I don't think that stuff every really took off the way Microsoft intended. With apps development already in full flight, Microsoft might see it best to direct amateur developers there. By getting them to make Metro apps rather than Windows programs, they ensure that all this becomes available on all platforms from handheld to desktops, making it easier to catch up to Apple and Android. It is also possible that Microsoft has noticed that lowering the threshold for Windows development has led to more crappy programs that make Windows unstable and wish to steer the masses onto a more stable platform.

That said, I'm not impressed by Windows 8. I might recommend it to my mother and grandmother, but personally I don't like that Windows, from a users viewpoint, has become a Metro app. In a way, it felt like a step back to the Windows 3.1 days. When using the consumer preview, I had to exit Windows (to Metro) in order to start other programs, just like I in the old days had to exit Windows to play more advanced games than Solitaire. Sure, I could pin stuff to the task bar, but I use a lot of different programs relatively frequently, so pinning them all would fill the taskbar.

Offline isidoro

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 1129
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2012, 10:36:20 PM »
Well, in fact, Linux is not free from this deadly fashion.  KDE started to mess with your private files to account for a huge inversion (semantic desktop), the new tablet-like interface of GNOME and cousins is a fiasco.  I could only get shelter in simple old-fashioned desktops like XFCE.  But I may be the last individual of an endangered species...

If I liked Macintoshes and all their bells and exclusivity and fashion and This message was sent from my IPhone, only a little, little bit, I would have bought one much before.  But all those things bug me a lot.  And I don't like the Apple style, I get lost with its marvelous interface and its "ease of use".  But it seems the trend now.  The wrong trend, imho, but let's wait and see.  I don't have euros inverted to lose them if things go wrong.

Offline prissi

  • Developer
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 9454
  • Languages: De,EN,JP
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2012, 07:46:16 PM »
I think the new Ubuntu desktop is as bad as any windows8; and I just need usually a shell and a file manager on unix ...

For simutrans, you could probably anyway built it as an app, as it does not use any GUI anyway from the windows GUI. And the basic display libaries will be still supported. (Yeah, an own GUI as best case ;) )

Offline An_dz

  • Web Admin
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 2841
  • D'oh
    • by An_dz
  • Languages: pt, en, it, (de)
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2012, 08:46:15 PM »
The good point about the "touch" Windows is that Simutrans will just need some little tweaks to make it "touchable". Because all the rest will work.

Apart that, it's really weird. I've installed here for testing and it's not nice for a desktop, but for a tablet it looks very nice.




Offline Vonjo

  • *
  • Posts: 273
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2012, 08:50:52 PM »
Well after using Windows 8 CP for 3-4, i think Windows 8 is just overly hyped. It is just an improvement from Windows 7.

What's new in Windows 8?
- New start menu. The start menu is now full screen. You can install some addons into the start menu.
- Faster boot and shutdown. (For me, this is the thing that should be hyped :) ).
- A lot of improvements to the current features. Like the new language features in control panel.
- What else?

--------

For C++ development, there are still Eclipse CDT, Netbeans, and MinGW combo.
For desktop .Net, there is still SharpDevelop.

--------

Metro apps doesn't support GDI. To make simutrans work in metro mode (aka start menu addon), it should be in Direct2D or Direct3D.

Offline sdog

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 2039
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2012, 10:10:32 PM »
@isidoro, prissi: i'm rather happy about the new desktop UIs. that is because i'm mostly using a terminal. it (that is gnome shell) is less cluttered and the two functions i need from a desktop interface are much easier to reach. starting programs: move mouse to upper left corner, enter the name of the program; change the virtual desktop in total my clicks on desktop elements are about 2/3 less than before, with gnome 2.

On topic,
will this end in open source compilers (gcc + cygwin?) becomming more important on windows. I'm rather certain this will backfire greatly.


Windows seems to have almost completely dissapeaerd from portable computers here. (not speaking about phones, that's 80% iphone anyway) At university it's close to 100% mac. They're staying on the desktop niche, but being under pressure from all sides.

Desktops are less required, specialised applications are mostly the reason to keep desktops. anything graphic and sound is now almost completely mac, heavy office work is in small business also often mac (that's from having a look in the entrance rooms of dentists, lawyers, tax offices etc.), for technical work they are under pressure by linux desktops (software dev, sys admins, web development). Gamers seem to play not on PC anymore in north america, at least only console games are visibly sold. That leave for the desktop market corporations (who are locked into windows as they can not easily change their processes, and often have very inflexible employees).

When being shipped without a compiler, can it even be called an operating system anymore?

Offline prissi

  • Developer
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 9454
  • Languages: De,EN,JP
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2012, 10:26:07 PM »
At least in germany mac is not an option for 90% of offices. Furthermore large commercial custom systems are very strongly based on PCs (that is why XP is still updated until 2014). Students here are 30/1 PC/MAC concerning notebooks (but with such prices no wonder, a Mac is 2-4x as expensive, and academic software does not run on it often). Even iPhones are less commond, in the subway is is most often an Android one.

The problem with new Ubuntu or Metro is that on a machine for work I can arrange the tools as I like. Both is uncredibly difficult on metro as well as the new Ubuntu-stuff. (By this I mean I could figure it out without googling or installing additional software.) As the shell (and that is the desktop) should support someone with its work (that is the only purpose!) it completely fails at it. Thus for me those desktops are programs that do not do what they are meant to do. (The same goes for ribbons, designing a software and hiding the save functionality - how had this ever pass most basic usability tests???)

Offline kierongreen

  • Dev Team, Coder/patcher
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 2269
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2012, 10:37:48 PM »
Quote
how had this ever pass most basic usability tests???)
I don't know... Some people must have preferred this way, so Microsoft and Apple lead and Ubuntu follows. Which is why I stick to running linux with a windows 95 era interface (lxde) which has simple menus for launching applications and accessing functions. It worked well 17 years ago, works just as well today. But then I also develop code in plain text editors and compile from the command line. This isn't how most people use computers, hence the newer interfaces (which require about 2 minutes to find the menu entry for a function, rather than scanning down a text menu in a few seconds).

Offline sdog

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 2039
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2012, 11:01:58 PM »
At least in germany mac is not an option for 90% of offices. Furthermore large commercial custom systems are very strongly based on PCs (that is why XP is still updated until 2014). Students here are 30/1 PC/MAC concerning notebooks (but with such prices no wonder, a Mac is 2-4x as expensive, and academic software does not run on it often). Even iPhones are less commond, in the subway is is most often an Android one.
here a mac notebook has roughly the same price as any other mid to high end notebook. there are big rebates at universities.
I thought the higher price tag at i-phone was one of the main reasons for its success, it's a status symbol. Isn't it in germany too. (such things are the first things, one loses touch with)

Quote
The problem with new Ubuntu or Metro is that on a machine for work I can arrange the tools as I like.
Both is uncredibly difficult on metro as well as the new Ubuntu-stuff.
Did this change? i can still move all program windows around on the desktop as i like. I noticed no change at all with this. Or do i fail to understand you here?

(i haven't used unity a lot, as i think it is to compromising on old desktop concepts, for example keeping superfluous maximise and minimise buttons (for max just pull t edge, for minimise, just open a new desktop))

Quote
(By this I mean I could figure it out without googling or installing additional software.) As the shell (and that is the desktop) should support someone with its work (that is the only purpose!) it completely fails at it. Thus for me those desktops are programs that do not do what they are meant to do. (The same goes for ribbons, designing a software and hiding the save functionality - how had this ever pass most basic usability tests???)
well, i'm there with you, what counts is supporting a good workflow.  I don't know ribbons though, and can't follow you on the save's. i suppose that's windows specific?

A question, does Metro finally have multiple virtual desktops? (the lack is something that greatly annoys me, whenever i'm on win. the other is the difficult copy and paste on windows.)
« Last Edit: June 06, 2012, 11:07:39 PM by sdog »

Offline isidoro

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 1129
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2012, 12:04:17 AM »
I guess that usability has a lot to do with one's background.  When I tried Unity for the first and only time before immediately deleting it, I couldn't stand the menus of my application to move to the top of the screen.  I have always hated the maximize button.  I like to see several overlapping windows on my desktop, each with its own normal menus (not hidden menus as if the programmer were ashamed of them).  I was also unable to find the most normal applications in the new configuration.  I like mice with two (or even three buttons).  When I have an iPad in my hands I don't know what to do with it and its only button.

What is a simplification for you is extremely complicated for me.  To put an example: in the old days I had a spoon, a fork and a knife to eat my meals, now I feel as if they were selling me that I can do all that with only a spoon and that it is much more efficient and simple... no way!

But I know that there is some instinctive aversion to all that inside me...  I try to learn some of the moves and I feel allergic to them...
 

Offline sdog

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 2039
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2012, 01:30:36 AM »
yes, that's really something that was annoying with unity. i mostly forgot it, since i'm using gnome shell, which is also quite different from previous desktops.

i liked the idea of moving the menu bar at first, but could not get used to it at all. Gimp for example was impossible to use that way, as the menu bar would be attached to the wrong window.

shell is a bit different, by leaving the menu bar where at its old place, at the top of windows. the big icons of open programs are not permanently there. they appear only when one hovers the cursor in the upper left corner.

what i like the most is not having to click on menus to find a program, starting to type the name brings it up. anything the helps to reduce mouse use in favour of keyboard use AND does not require horrible shortcut key-combinations is usually most wellcome to me.

i try to reduce the number of overlapping windows, as they sometimes are tiring the eye, it increases clutter. thus i usually move windows side by side, in one layer, but use plenty of desktops. And thats where things get nice again, clicking on a program with middle button opens a new instance on a new desktop. Those desktops just pop up, as one needs them btw.

perhaps the new gnome shell is better suited for your work than the (rather problematic) unity, tried it already? that's the nice thing by the way. it is very easy to choose a different desktop, nothing binds us to one, while we still have the same system. xfce is rather good too.



this is getting a rather independent thread, split perhaps?

Offline Markohs

  • DevTeam, Coder/patcher
  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 1559
  • Languages: EN,ES,CAT
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2012, 07:48:34 AM »
On my work I use fvwm for my unix desktop, no need for those "modern" things you use. ;)

After all it's just about xterms and viertual desktops. For the rest of things I got my windows 7.

Offline Vonjo

  • *
  • Posts: 273
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2012, 02:03:26 PM »
Back to topic, there is a good discussion about it here: www.gamedev.net/topic/625210-visual-studio-11-express/

Offline isidoro

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 1129
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2012, 11:11:35 PM »
(Small parenthesis) @sdog:  yes, I also tried Gnome shell but didn't buy it either (I was very much pissed about Ubuntu moving to Unity, it also seemed unstable to me,...).  I kept it for a little time, but now I moved all my machines to XFCE: just what I want: quick, old-fashioned Desktop.  I'm very happy with it.  I only hope that no modern wannabe GUI engineer gets enough predicament in the project and try to modernize it...

Edit: while I was writing this, my Ubuntu updated and, with it, Firefox updated to version 13.  The first surprise arose when I opened a "new tab": all my "history shames" appeared in small squares in the new tab.  I felt quite nude for a moment.

Then I tried to prevent it from appearing and I noticed a square on the top right corner.  I pressed it, and voila! the squares went away.  But the small square remained...  I also wanted to get rid of it, so that no one undresses me so easily...  I don't like to undress to the first person that comes by...

I looked in the configuration menus... and nothing.

I googled and I learned that (omg!) it is another modern feature of Chrome (a browser to put it with Unity and all their family...), the quickest browser west of Pecos, as they advertise it, btw.

I also learned that if I wanted to get rid of the square, I had to hack the about:config page!  How nice...

That is another thing I don't like about those smart GUI engineers... they think they are smarter than us and they perfectly know what is good or bad for our poor baby small minds.  I can see them talking among themselves: "Let's put this nice feature and make it default, but we must make it hard to unconfigure... Otherwise, those small babies won't get used to it and appreciate what a marvelous feature we have devised..."
« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 11:47:09 PM by isidoro »

Offline An_dz

  • Web Admin
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 2841
  • D'oh
    • by An_dz
  • Languages: pt, en, it, (de)
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2012, 02:07:13 AM »
I googled and I learned that (omg!) it is another modern feature of Chrome (a browser to put it with Unity and all their family...),
That's why I hate Chrome, Customization is something that doesn't exist, configurations and privacy too.
And Firefox is moving to the same place. And another thing that I can't understand is that version numbering. Any update now is already a new version number. Firefox 13? I've downloaded 10 for testing not so long ago.

I don't like Unity too, it's not beauty, have bad usability and very unstable for me. I liked more Gnome, it's more stable and beauty. There are some stuff that I don't like but not much.

I've installed Win8 here too and at the start it was a little strange, but I'm getting used with it. And there are some stuff that I really liked.
And for a tablet it's really awesome, if there's one thing about Windows is the fast of use. I can switch programs fast without any boring slow transitions that sometimes freeze.

One big down about Win8 is the lack of customization. They are forcing some stuff and even for the stuff they force, like the Start Screen, don't allow so much customization.

Offline sdog

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 2039
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2012, 04:09:17 AM »
I was very much pissed about Ubuntu moving to Unity, it also seemed unstable to me
i could understand you there much better, if it was windows or mac where you are locked to their choice, but you could easily switch to xfce, it most likely worked without much work, perhaps even by just getting the package through apt-get?
Quote
I kept it for a little time, but now I moved all my machines to XFCE: just what I want: quick, old-fashioned Desktop.  I'm very happy with it.  I only hope that no modern wannabe GUI engineer gets enough predicament in the project and try to modernize it...
i don't think you have to fear that, there are so many people moving to the light weight XFCE and wanting it that way, that if they would modernise it, there would certainly be a fork and continued development of the old one.

gnome 3 also keeps the fallback mode, and through it a classic gnome look. so if you like it you can still miss it.

not to be missunderstood, i like gnome shell a lot, i want to share the information, and give a way how it can be reasonably used. i don't want to persuade you, since you tried it, you already worked what's best for you.

Quote
Edit: while I was writing this, my Ubuntu updated and, with it, Firefox updated to version 13.  The first surprise arose when I opened a "new tab": all my "history shames" appeared in small squares in the new tab.  I felt quite nude for a moment.

Then I tried to prevent it from appearing and I noticed a square on the top right corner.  I pressed it, and voila! the squares went away.  But the small square remained...  I also wanted to get rid of it, so that no one undresses me so easily...  I don't like to undress to the first person that comes by...

I looked in the configuration menus... and nothing.

I googled and I learned that (omg!) it is another modern feature of Chrome (a browser to put it with Unity and all their family...), the quickest browser west of Pecos, as they advertise it, btw.

I also learned that if I wanted to get rid of the square, I had to hack the about:config page!  How nice...
wouldn't this be the first place to look for settings anyway? i can't follow you why this would be hidden? that's by the way something i miss with my current browser. using the url line to enter commands. in the time to find and click preferences i've written about:config 3 to 5 times.

Quote
That is another thing I don't like about those smart GUI engineers... they think they are smarter than us and they perfectly know what is good or bad for our poor baby small minds.  I can see them talking among themselves: "Let's put this nice feature and make it default, but we must make it hard to unconfigure... Otherwise, those small babies won't get used to it and appreciate what a marvelous feature we have devised..."

i have to admit, and i'm rather ashamed of it, i'm using chrome because of its design, and i'm also using all those google cloud services, and i like the integration of them into chrome. i'm rather ashamed of it as i'm doing it quite against my conscience, and i should know it better. it's just so convenient and easy to do it. :-(

i changed to chrome mostly for four reasons:

chrome has a little button next to tabs, when one pastes text into it, it opens a new tab with this in the address/search bar

i had always big trouble synchronising firefox between a few computers i used on a daily basis. i wanted at least basic things to be the same everywhere, installed plugins, configuration and the few bookmarks i use. it was a constant struggle to do so with unison etc. with chrome the cloud integration means i don't notice any difference when changing from one computer to the other.

firefox was (and sadly is) extremely slow (and did not tend to be very stable either)

the recently used sites are shown as large icons in the browser window when no tab is open and the recently open dialogue is also right there. (firefox required me to look through a history well hidden in menus i hardly ever used it, instead i googled for the page again.)


other thing:
yesterday i had to use unity for a little while, it was really really tedious. it takes three clicks to get a program to a different desktop. the nice thing is, i got a new computer, installing ubuntu, getting all the software i used before, and getting all the data from my stolen notebook only took me one hour.

Offline Fabio

  • Devotee
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 2898
  • The Pak128 Guy
    • Visit me on Facebook
  • Languages: EN, IT, RO, FR
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2012, 06:27:34 AM »
i have to admit, and i'm rather ashamed of it, i'm using chrome because of its design, and i'm also using all those google cloud services, and i like the integration of them into chrome. i'm rather ashamed of it as i'm doing it quite against my conscience, and i should know it better. it's just so convenient and easy to do it. :-(

I'm a Chrome user, too, but I'm not ashamed of it. Why should I?
I find it convenient, and actually faster than most of browsers.
A small trick I like is that you can drag a tab out of the tab bar to make it a new windows, or drag an isolated tab into another tab bar :)
How should it be customizable? It does well its dirty job with a pleasant GUI. What should I want more?

I used to use Firefox, but it's d@mn slow.
I can't get the feeling with Opera, although I installed it and I use Opera Mini on my smartphone.

Offline Markohs

  • DevTeam, Coder/patcher
  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 1559
  • Languages: EN,ES,CAT
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2012, 12:26:04 PM »
I can't get the feeling with Opera, although I installed it and I use Opera Mini on my smartphone.

 Yeah, the android opera mini is quite cool, I use it too!

Offline Ters

  • Coder/patcher
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 5469
  • Languages: EN, NO
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2012, 02:07:02 PM »
Some people like things to just work out of the box, others like to be involved in how things work and look. The former is probably the majority, so that's the customers companies go after.

Offline ӔO

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 2345
  • Hopefully helpful
  • Languages: en, jp
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2012, 04:40:42 PM »
I think most people would like something they are quite intimate with to be fully customizable.

It's just that most people don't view the web browser as something they are intimate with. A different level of accomplishment you achieve by personalizing or customizing something to your liking. For some, it is their wardrobe, room interior, car, etc. For others, it is the web browser or OS.


Offline Ters

  • Coder/patcher
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 5469
  • Languages: EN, NO
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2012, 05:30:45 PM »
But one could also rather compare the wardrobe to the computer as a whole. They are customized by what people put in them, but the individual clothes/apps are ready made.

Offline sdog

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 2039
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2012, 06:08:53 PM »
is there really a conflict between working out of the box and customisability?

i've got a lot of software working out of the box, due to sensible choice of default settings, but still everything is customizable. For open source even in every aspect, by changing the sourcecode. I can have a 20 minute installation of an operating system, but still change any aspect of it. (that is not just the wardrobe, but the clothes themselves)



added:
i rather think the conflict is between customisability and having a homogenous system at every users setup (eg apple ios) you can market to software developers and reduce customer service costs.


example 1: my partner had a broken ipod touch, went to the apple store who told her to connect it to itunes, synchronize and get a new one. this way they can do with uneducated sales people, not having any idea of what's going on inside the device


example 2: german newspapers are using ios as distribution platform, but not android. the reason is that development cost for android devices is much higher, since more different devices have to be tested.




perhaps it makes it also easier to lock users into their system.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 06:15:47 PM by sdog »

Offline Ters

  • Coder/patcher
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 5469
  • Languages: EN, NO
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2012, 06:28:26 PM »
Your additions are onto it. And example 2 is also valid for those making customizable products. They have to test that their product works no matter what combination of settings their users choose, and add checks to prevent them from choosing two incompatible settings. If not, they lose the customers that try to customize just because it's possible, not because they feel that they have to, only to end up crashing the product and call it a crappy product.

Offline isidoro

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 1129
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #28 on: June 08, 2012, 10:31:03 PM »
Simple is fairly incompatible with powerful.  The vast majority of users can't handle a complicated interface or options, ergo computers are made more and more simple...


Offline Ters

  • Coder/patcher
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 5469
  • Languages: EN, NO
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2012, 08:27:17 AM »
True, yet the simple computers of today are more powerful than the advanced computers from ten to twenty years ago.

Offline sdog

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 2039
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2012, 12:54:38 AM »
Simple is fairly incompatible with powerful.  The vast majority of users can't handle a complicated interface or options, ergo computers are made more and more simple...

This powerful statement is too much simplificating the situation in my oppinion. ;-)

Microsoft is much more sensitive to the small developers than i'd have expected. Perhaps in a decade yesterday's villain will become the white knight saving us from world dominance by google.

Offline Ters

  • Coder/patcher
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 5469
  • Languages: EN, NO
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2012, 08:36:20 AM »
Well, both rose to dominance by the will of the market. And at least Microsoft is aware that they only stay in dominance as long as the users want it. I've read some blogs about how much effort Microsoft has put into ensuring that there is no reason (except cost in time and money) to upgrade to a newer version of Windows. Windows has to bend over backwards to ensure that crappy software, that only worked by sheer luck earlier, still runs. If not, users won't upgrade and Microsoft won't earn money. But it's beyond anyone's capacity to test every single piece of Windows software, and we only ever hear about the things that stopped working.

I just wonder if there are enough pressure from users to force Windows 8 to retain the start menu (and preferrably go straight to the desktop on start up).

Offline Combuijs

  • Web Team
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 1392
  • Maintainer of maps.simutrans.com
    • Combuijs
  • Languages: EN, NL
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #32 on: June 10, 2012, 10:11:20 AM »
Quote
software, that only worked by sheer luck earlier

Isn't that valid for all software?  ;)

Offline Ters

  • Coder/patcher
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 5469
  • Languages: EN, NO
Re: "No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8"
« Reply #33 on: June 10, 2012, 11:40:35 AM »
Isn't that valid for all software?  ;)

For the most part, but there is a difference between aiming, kicking the ball and hoping for the best, and closing your eyes, kicking where you think the ball is, hit a spare goal somewhere else and nobody noticing the difference.