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Author Topic: Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]  (Read 8125 times)

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Offline Hitardo

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Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]
« on: July 13, 2012, 09:22:58 PM »
Hello,

This is my first post on Simutrans International Forum, so advices and critics are welcomed.

I downloaded the new version of Simutrans recently, and I found a problem with Trams. Problem that is divided in two main problems:

1. A Tram does not recognize its own (Tram) Depot, it only goes to the Train Depot. And in Train Depot I can only find Train Lines. I cannot find the Tram Lines that I have created on past months.
In Train Depot I cannot find/select any Tram.

2. When entering in a Tram Depot, I can select any Tram and any Line I want. But when assigning a Line to the Tram convoy I just bought, the Line is not assigned.

SOLUTION: For those who want to continue playing in this conditions, you call a Tram to the Train Depot and you copy it. That way, you can make whatever you want.

I am hoping I can help more and more Simutrans. Because, I love this game.
Keep up the good work.

Best regards from Portugal.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 09:30:32 PM by hitardo »

Offline Dwachs

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Re: Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2012, 08:33:31 AM »
Thanks for the report!

Trams should not be able to enter a train depot. Neither should there be the possibility to clone trams in train depots... Will investigate.

Edit: How did you manage to get a tram into a train depot? I could only trigger using waypoints for the tram schedule, and then building a train depot on such a waypoint.

Edit2: Should be fixed in r5827. Trams should not enter train depots and cannot be copied there anymore.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 09:20:38 AM by Dwachs »

Offline Hitardo

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Re: Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2012, 09:26:50 AM »
I am not sure if you understood the whole problem. That is not the main problem.

The main problem is that when I send a Tram to its Depot, it goes to the Train Depot by itself - like it should go to a Tram Depot.
The main problem is in the Tram Depot, where I cannot assigned a Line and start the convoy.

If you would like, I can make a video.

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2012, 10:03:56 AM »
I could not get a tram to go to a train depot by clicking on the "Send to Depot" button either, even before Dwachs fix.

Trams and trains should not be able to access each others depots, and so assigning lines etc should not be an issue.

Offline Ters

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Re: Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2012, 10:19:43 AM »
Even if trams have no other depots to choose from except train depots, they refuse to go there when I click the button for sending the tram to a depot. This was tested before Dwachs' fixes. I suspect that the developers need a copy of the saved game for this. Maybe it has become corrupted somehow.

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2012, 10:21:36 AM »
Dwachs has just committed some more fixes to the SVN...

Offline Hitardo

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Re: Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2012, 11:38:17 AM »
I have to admit I have many addons in my game.
It could be because of that.

Do you want my save game?

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2012, 11:57:15 AM »
Addons should not affect behaviour in this way. If you could produce a saved game with just standard pak64/128 which produced the behaviour you are talking about that would be brilliant.

However, I'd wait until you've tested with a newer version after the corrections Dwachs has made (there should be a bug-fix release in a week or so, or you can try a nightly build before then).

Offline Ters

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Re: Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2012, 12:37:10 PM »
Just question out of the blue: What would happen if a vehicle changes waytype from one version of a pak to the next, and a game started with the old version is loaded with the new version?

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2012, 12:53:45 PM »
That is an interesting point, I do not know is the simple answer. If it were from train to tram or vice versa then it should keep running - however the line might be registered as belonging to it's old waytype. This wouldn't cause any issue until you tried adding new vehicles to this line I think. In all other respects it would act as any vehicle belonging to it's new waytype

Offline Dwachs

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Re: Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2012, 03:40:31 PM »
The main problem is that when I send a Tram to its Depot, it goes to the Train Depot by itself - like it should go to a Tram Depot.
The main problem is in the Tram Depot, where I cannot assigned a Line and start the convoy.
Can you please upload the savegame? I could not reproduce this behavior, in my tests trams went to tram depot (if there is any). You can upload here: http://files.simutrans-germany.com/

The second problem of course depends on the first: A tram should never go into a train depot.

Offline Ters

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Re: Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2012, 04:53:03 PM »
The second problem of course depends on the first: A tram should never go into a train depot.

I don't read the second problem the way you do. hitardo doesn't link it to train depots, but tram depots. In other words, hitardo can't assign tram lines to trams in the tram depot. Something which would suggest that something is not what it should be, prompting my question out of the not so blue above. But it might as well be me that's reading it wrong.

Offline Dwachs

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Re: Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2012, 05:06:41 PM »
I don't read the second problem the way you do. hitardo doesn't link it to train depots, but tram depots. In other words, hitardo can't assign tram lines to trams in the tram depot. Something which would suggest that something is not what it should be, prompting my question out of the not so blue above. But it might as well be me that's reading it wrong.
You could be right, there is a related (and similarly cryptic) bug report at the German forum.

@hitardo: Can you please describe how to trigger the bug? That is, which windows to open, which buttons to click etc.

Btw the report at the German forum is also using pak128.britain, the affected tram seems to be of the same type  :o

Edit: I think, I found the cause of this bug: the train DLR-B07 in pak128.Britain changed type. Originally it was 'train', later it was changed to 'tram'. Ters, you were right.

http://simutrans.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/simutrans/pak128.Britain/london-underground/dlr-b07-front.dat?r1=143&r2=165

@Hitardo: This would explain your first item in the first post. But I do not understand the second item.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 07:01:24 PM by Dwachs »

Offline Hitardo

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Re: Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2012, 07:47:55 PM »
I think you are right.

I have tested this same Tram in pak128.Britain original (without addons), and it was working fine. I assigned Lines to it, and off it went.

In my game (with addons), that Tram - and its cousins (there are some Trams very similar to this) - have problems in assigning Lines, and some others have no problems at all.

Offline VS

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Re: Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2012, 07:49:23 PM »
Maybe not relevant, but... How old is that addon? Do you know which makeobj version was used to pak it?

Offline Hitardo

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Re: Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2012, 07:55:54 PM »
I have in fact many addons.

I have no idea which one is causing the problem. Therefore, I cannot know which version of makeobj was used.

I will investigate though.

Offline VS

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Re: Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2012, 08:06:24 PM »
I mean the particular type of tram that has problems. Or did I misunderstand and it happens to all trams?

My theory was that the bug is in the "compatibility layer" (loading older pak versions), and the resulting object confuses the game as to what it is, but the condition is rare because it requires particular version of old makeobj and current game (or something along these lines).



edit: I am stupid and can't read the original post, apparently :-/ Sorry.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 08:17:37 PM by VS »

Offline Hitardo

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Re: Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2012, 12:58:17 PM »
The specific type of Tram is from the pak128.Britain. That Tram and the other Trams that offer this problems.

And only offer this problem in my save game. If I start a new game, this Trams have no problem.

Offline greenling

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Re: Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2012, 01:06:44 PM »
hitardo can you make a photo from the contents of the pakset folder.
that i can view the age of the pakfiles how problems make.

Offline Dwachs

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Re: Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2012, 01:23:47 PM »
The specific type of Tram is from the pak128.Britain. That Tram and the other Trams that offer this problems.

And only offer this problem in my save game. If I start a new game, this Trams have no problem.
When you started your game, these vehicles were internally treated as trains. Due to an update in pak.britain, these trains are internally treated as trams, which causes you the problems.

@greenling: This is not necessary, as the pak is identified: DLR-B07.

Offline Ters

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Re: Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2012, 02:51:00 PM »
When you started your game, these vehicles were internally treated as trains. Due to an update in pak.britain, these trains are internally treated as trams, which causes you the problems.

How does one untangle this mess? It seems that the lines are of the right type, as they are only available in the tram depot. Yet it is impossible to assign them to new trams. Where does the game get the wrong data from when building new trams, unless they are copied from corrupt convoys, but how can they be copied when the corrupt convoys won't enter a tram depot?

Offline greenling

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Re: Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2012, 03:14:31 PM »
Dwachs
I can´t  remember how the excahange of the waytyp from the DLR-B07 in the nightly was.
That was the ground how i hitardo want be ask how old the pakset was that he be replaect have that than be got find the bug how
than be postet have.
That i then the right typ of depot use.
I Have several pak128britain nightly.

Offline Dwachs

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Re: Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2012, 03:54:09 PM »
@Ters: up to now everything is guess-work. I do not know, what the problem really is.

@Hitardo: Please upload the savegame in question, even it needs addons. The trouble-making vehicle should be from standard pak.Britain. You can upload e.g. at

http://files.simutrans-germany.com/

Offline Hitardo

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Offline Dwachs

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Re: Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2012, 06:14:57 PM »
I could load your game, lots of addons missing ofc, but trams seem to work well.

Can you describe, what exactly does not work? Which tram (id number) goes to the wrong depot?

Assigning lines to new trams work perfectly well. Which depot (coordinate), which tram does not like to be assigned to which line?

Offline Hitardo

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Re: Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2012, 06:40:02 PM »
I only have Docklands Light Railway B07 Tram

But in fact, any Docklands Light Railway Tram offers me that problem. At any Tram Depot of the map.

I will investigate, and take off some addons to see if the problem is solved.
When I had done that, I will report here.

Any more doubt I can help you with?

Offline Dwachs

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Re: Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2012, 06:50:28 PM »
Could not reproduce this ??? I could send these trams to tram depots and assign lines as I liked.

Offline Hitardo

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Re: Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2012, 01:18:56 PM »
I removed the Tram addons and the problem continued.

I don't know what to do anymore...
Any suggestions?

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]
« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2012, 01:25:28 PM »
Try reinstalling simutrans in a clean directory.

Offline Hitardo

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Re: Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2012, 01:33:20 PM »
Ok, I will try it.
Thanks.

Just one question: I install (downloaded to be exact) the most recent version of Simutrans moments ago. And I noticed that the mouse cursor was turn black and is smaller.
I ask if it is a change to stay?
Because I have vision problems and is very difficult for me to see the cursor in these conditions...

Offline Ters

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Re: Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]
« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2012, 02:29:31 PM »
Maybe you changed from the GDI version to the SDL version.

Offline Hitardo

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Re: Problem with Trams [Simutrans v111.3, pak128.Britain 1.11]
« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2012, 02:43:54 PM »
You are absolutely right.
Thanks for the help.

And hope to help you more.