bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental - Pak128.Britain-Ex 0.9.0

[jamespetts]

The server is now back up with the latest version, 10.25, which fixes the bug that caused the failure most recently. Apologies for the downtime - happy playing!

[asaphxiix]

seems to be a problem - frequently losing sync, then the server isn't a available for a while, then makes a new announcement - server restarts?

[jamespetts]

Hmm - does the client crash?

[asaphxiix]

Nope, doesn't crash. This hasn't occurred since I reported it

[asaphxiix]

the train at 1194,1131 is stuck for no apparent reason.  i've seen this today in another place too, today. I'll try to release it, but you can see this in the 21:11 save.

edit: I clicked 'schedule' then closed the schedule window, it resumed driving.

[asaphxiix]

instant desyncs, a few times in a row. you getting that too?

[jamespetts]

Yes, that is rather odd. It seems to be working again now, though.

[asaphxiix]

i tried to connect now, instant desync, then tried again, got an error:

[jamespetts]

Hmm - will have to look into this error in due course when I have time - sadly run out of it this evening.

Edit: Odd - seems to be working now.

[asaphxiix]

server crashed when trying to remove Reddingchester Quiver Street Dock (public stop) with the water removal tool. not sure what it was exactly that I was doing (client lost sync, didn't crash), but it can't be reproduced in single player mode.

[asaphxiix]

edit: after checking, I see that the track reservation bug positively doesn't occur in 10.24, for trams at least. Since the it is a very critical bug (effectively disabling tram transportation, for the most part), might I suggest that the server be reverted to 10.24, until this is fixed?

[jamespetts]

I have restarted the server with version 10.26, which I am hoping will have solved this problem. Please let me know how you get on.

Edit: Incidentally, I should add that, following Junna's bankruptcy, there is now a player slot available.

[ӔO]

the block reservation bug seems to have been fixed. I don't notice any trains getting stuck anymore.

[asaphxiix]

seem that the server restarts and reverts often this weekend (since yesterday). Somehow I usually try to join in the middle of it... but happens in-play as well. And after restart, there is some while of instant desyncs. And then it's ok. So basically, although I wasn't trying very hard, I wasn't really able to play since.

[chicken]

@526,1112 is a good example of how I might build a reasonably decent set of tracks, then I log-off and come back and they're all spaghettified mysteriously. I'll leave them messed up so you can take a look.

[jamespetts]

Asaph - hmm. I haven't noticed this myself when I have been logged in, but I have not been logged in much. Does it happen in particular circumstances?

Chicken - does this always happen with double tracks on a diagonal? Do you always ensure that double tracks on a diagonal are separated by at least a tile?

[asaphxiix]

it just happened on the beginning of the month
which is often a desync, but this time restarted as well I think
also it was like this a few times as I was joining, but I can't say if before that maybe, I think one time it crashed right in the middle of joining, but again not sure about the circumstances, sorry it's not so helpful. I don't think I actually witnessed the cause, must have been something someone else was doing, or spontaneous? happens a lot though, I've tried to build some track two times already, this will be the third. an underground, in Berrywell and Kilford.

perhaps chicken's issue is related to reversion, I think this happened before.

[jamespetts]

Reversion is caused when the server crashes and reverts to the last saved game, so this ought not be responsible for Chicken's issue in and of itself unless the tracks were like that when the game was saved.

If you can find any patterns in the reversions, I should be very grateful if you could let me know so that I can attempt to track down the cause.

[asaphxiix]

there's also the issue of instant desyncs. you'll see it if you try joining now I think.

[jamespetts]

Hmm, I am currently in and not desyncing. Odd.

[asaphxiix]

oh my. the problem is on my side maybe? I still can't join. I'll try reopening the client.
edit: was able to join after reopening. don't know if coincidence

[asaphxiix]

again it happened, after someone joined, no restart, just me having reopen the client.

[jamespetts]

Odd. I have remained stably connected for some time, albeit I am not actually doing anything: just observing. Have you been interacting in any particular ways?

[chicken]

I always keep the tracks apart, I hate it when they run together like that (pet peeve about Simutrans: diagonal tracks are so far apart; OpenTTD doesn't have this issue for whatever reason).

The first time I built this extension it was lost in the reversion that Asa posted about. The second time I built it, I made sure to log out and back in to save the work. But after logging back in I saw it had become spaghettified so I posted about it.

[jamespetts]

Hmm - this is rather odd, not least because the code for placing tracks has not changed at all in Experimental compared with Standard. May I ask - is anyone else consistently having this difficulty?

[ӔO]

I get it by accidental input, by being one tile off of where I wanted the track to go.

A neat trick to check straightness when placing is to use the edge of your screen.


I've also noticed, that when placing track under lagged situations, what appears on screen isn't what you will get. It's like you get two separate overlays that don't interact with each other, but will when operation is completed. To describe it, you get to see TTD, compact layout on diagonals, instead of simutrans style, wide layout. You can also see "Y" switches that aren't even possible with the extended way images.

probably easier to reproduce if you have a slower computer.

---
okay, I've managed to reproduce it

looks like this

Basically, you have to input your second command faster than the first one appears, then you get an overlay that won't interact with the first command.

[chicken]

Well I do make sure that the track is laid out correctly when I do it, as far as I can see. I have, in other circumstances, even introduced service onto those tracks which runs cleanly at that time, only to come back and later find them messed up.

It could be a lag or sync issue, where my client thinks they are laid out correctly but the server does not. I'm not clear enough on internals to say whether this is possible.

[jamespetts]

Chicken - do you experience heavy lag? In other words, is there a long delay between you building a road, railway (etc.) and it appearing on the screen?

[chicken]

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I think it's when the server is really busy that I get the worst of that kind of lag. In this case, it did not take more than a few seconds for things to appear when I built them.

[jamespetts]

Do you have the issue when you have the lag? AEO seems to have narrowed down fairly precisely the circumstances in which this behaviour can be reproduced...

[chicken]

It's hard to say because I usually just give up on building anything when the lag's there. In this case it was only a few seconds, which doesn't faze me much. It is possible that I laid down a few tracks before waiting for the previous one to complete. When I have a free moment I will try doing that again and compare it to a more patient approach.

[jamespetts]

I should be grateful if you could let me know the result.

[wlindley]

Lindley Lines is in the red, with a seriously outdated set of equipment and lines, much of it going back thirty or fifty years.  With not too much chance to play lately, the sheer scope of trying to upgrade it all to the modern situation, and reorient to be "at right angles to" the competition, is a pretty stiff task.

Recommendations for course of action?  I would almost like to start over now that we are in the electric age.

[ӔO]

I would axe the island and concentrate around roxingham area, since that area seems to have the more modern equipment and tracks.

At the very minimum, I would withdraw the costly trains and, if possible, replace them with slow, but highly comfortable trains.

Probably, your best bet is midland 1377 (40t) and midland 1833 (44t!) with LNWR 8 wheel coaches for pax. For mail, maybe run a single 1377 with  midland 6 wheel mail carriages.


Your main problem is not having enough capacity for the flow of pax, which results in massive refunds. This destroys any wealth you have accumulated, which is why your income fluctuates greatly. Getting rid of the problematic point, and concentrating on one that can work with some improvement would be best, I think.

[asaphxiix]

I guess the question is whether your losses are due to refunds, or from operation. If it's refund, you can probably combat this by making some changes, when you get the occasional break from them and earn some money. If the operation isn't profitable, I suppose it might be better to start off.