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Offline AvG

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Some questions (tiledimensions, BpM)
« on: July 15, 2013, 07:19:48 PM »
Hi James,
I downed EXP-11 + Britpack 090 and got it working.
Thanks for your hardwork.
I noticed a couple of things:
- Tiles of 125m. Will that be the standard for the near future?
- BpM is set at 22. OK. But 22 is now different from 22 in the past. I do not understand how that is possible. BpM21 is now the same as 20 in EXP-Complete.
- Factory-building not possible by player. I seem to remember that I could do this as player a couple of years ago. (Important for my way of playing.)
- Only german text.


I use a map of Holland, with rivers and towns exactly (via Google Maps) on the right place and starting in 1820 and fitting the new tile-scale.
When ready the DCR (Dutch Reality Connection) activities will be continued.
Some ideas:
- Waybuilding cost time. Laying 20km of track not possible anymore. (testing)
- Rails and roads over the highest mountains not possible. (under investigation) Height-levels will get dimensions.
- Towngrowth factors dependent on needs-fullfillments of inhabitants. (under investigation)
- Less vehicle-types by using more universal High and Low-Volume vehicles.


These ideas will be implemented only if feasable and, as long as not accepted by the devs, will need some player manual activities.


I understand that all pak-files have to be renewed.
What is the link to Github/Britpak909. (I need .dat examples)


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Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Some questions (tiledimensions, BpM)
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2013, 10:58:28 PM »
AvG,

glad that you have managed to get this working. I hope that you are enjoying it. To answer your questions:

Quote
Tiles of 125m. Will that be the standard for the near future?

That is indeed planned to be the default in Pak128.Britain-Ex for the foreseeable future.

Quote
BpM is set at 22. OK. But 22 is now different from 22 in the past. I do not understand how that is possible. BpM21 is now the same as 20 in EXP-Complete.

Depending on to what differences that you are referring, this could be caused by the reduction in meters per tile.

Quote
Factory-building not possible by player. I seem to remember that I could do this as player a couple of years ago. (Important for my way of playing.)

This has not changed - this was never possible by an ordinary player, but was and is possible for the public player.

Quote
Only german text.

What do you mean? I am afraid that I do not understand this.

Quote
Some ideas:
- Waybuilding cost time. Laying 20km of track not possible anymore. (testing)
- Rails and roads over the highest mountains not possible. (under investigation) Height-levels will get dimensions.
- Towngrowth factors dependent on needs-fullfillments of inhabitants. (under investigation)
- Less vehicle-types by using more universal High and Low-Volume vehicles.

The first idea is something that has been of some interest for some time, but would need significant work to integrate and balance, and there is a long queue of higher priority tasks. The second idea is something that should be possible in the future when one of the features that I am planning for canal navigation is implemented (but it should work with all types of ways).

Depending on what you mean by the third idea, something along these lines is planned. As to the fourth idea, "Less vehicle-types by using more universal High and Low-Volume vehicles," I am not sure what you mean, I am afraid: is this a suggested coding change, or just something that you plan to do with your pakset?

As to your final question, the sources for Pak128.Britain-Ex can be found here.

Offline AvG

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Re: Some questions (tiledimensions, BpM)
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2013, 01:25:41 PM »
125 m/tile is fine. However, big rivers, like you find a.o. in Holland,  can be over 1500 m wide.
I think we need therefore an extra rivertile that looks like open water.

BpM setting. The number of hours for a BpM-setting differs from previous versions. IMHO completely independend from tile-dimension.

Factory-building not possible for player. OK, so the public player must do it.

German text. I have only German text. Maybe I use the wrong textfile or the right textfile on the wrong place.

Way-building. I designed a special factory building, called Railconstructor.
Procedure of railbuilding:
- Reserve the traject by placing markers.
- Place the Railconstructor on marker 1.
- Place a cargo stop near the Railconstructor.
- Transport large-gravel, sleepers and railprofile until a certain amount of each is reached.
- Replace the Railconstructor by the desired piece of rail. (by hand)
I do this in the latest EXP-Complete and up till now I am happy with it. It reflects very well the problem you had in the old days
to get 2 tons/m of large-gravel on the right place.

Towngrowth.
Playing EXP-complete I noticed a market near a town and it gave the impression there was a relation between demand/offer.
IMHO it is not difficult to make the relation between population-size and demand of each good. The fullfillment of demand can
be translated into satisfaction and can give an influance on towngrowth.

HV and LV vehicles.
This is completely based on the Pak-set. Used it in the past to be able using the same vehicle in multiple purposes.

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Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Some questions (tiledimensions, BpM)
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2013, 01:33:24 PM »
125 m/tile is fine. However, big rivers, like you find a.o. in Holland,  can be over 1500 m wide.
I think we need therefore an extra rivertile that looks like open water.

This is an interesting idea - but it would need some very extensive coding work.

Quote
BpM setting. The number of hours for a BpM-setting differs from previous versions. IMHO completely independend from tile-dimension.

Can you elaborate? I am not sure what you mean here.

Quote
German text. I have only German text. Maybe I use the wrong textfile or the right textfile on the wrong place.

Do you mean that you are missing the Dutch translation file? I am not sure whether anyone has made any Experimental specific translations to Dutch - but you can try downloading the up to date language files from Simutranslator.

Quote
Towngrowth.
Playing EXP-complete I noticed a market near a town and it gave the impression there was a relation between demand/offer.
IMHO it is not difficult to make the relation between population-size and demand of each good. The fullfillment of demand can
be translated into satisfaction and can give an influance on towngrowth.

There is a feature whereby a consumer industry inside a town will scale its demand (within its standard range) based on the relative size of the town compared to other towns. Is this what you mean?

Offline Carl

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Re: Some questions (tiledimensions, BpM)
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2013, 01:53:52 PM »
For a guide to the relationship between month length in hours and bits-per-month, see here:
http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=7897.0

The key fact is that the number of hours in a month varies not only with BPM, but also with the meters_per_tile setting. Halving the meters_per_tile, as has happened in the pakset recently, will halve the number of hours in the month even whilst BPM remains unchanged. This is intended behaviour.

You said that you think the BPM has changed independent of tile dimension: I don't think this is the case.

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Some questions (tiledimensions, BpM)
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2013, 03:08:07 PM »
With new landscape code wider rivers would be possible. The only issue would be height transitions which would be limited to one tile wide as at present.

Offline AvG

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Re: Some questions (tiledimensions, BpM)
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2013, 03:52:20 PM »
Rivertiles.
Yes, I see what you mean by lots of coding.
In my case I let the public player make the map alterations. Will fix this in the pak.

BpM.
A value of BpM=22 gives 6.24 ingame hours in EXP-11. In EXP-Complete BpM=22 gives 12.48 ingamehours.
Carl gives an explanation above (thank you).
My idea now is that if half the tiledims that you have to compensate that in time to prevent racing vehicles.
But anyhow it is intended behaviour.
I am not sure what BpM to pick for DCR, Probably 25 or so. A complicated simulation like this needs time.
A side-effect of high BpM is that it is less tempting to wait for the better vehicle to arrive.

Text-files.
I prefer English text-files, because they are original.
My problem may be caused by the fact that the text-file on the same level as the .exe, is a copy of the EXP-complete. Is the right textfile on Github?
If I want to use Dutch there is no problem, but C-English is mainly German.
I strongly advise to make EXP-11 Complete available to prevent this kind of problems.

Towngrowth,
Not exactly. What I mean is to calculate the needs of town-inhabitants.
F.i.:. a 10K city needs bread. If you need 300 gr/day per cap you have  to make 3 tons available. By failure the towngrowth-factor will rise.
The available feature you mention is not recognised. But I just restarted, so I will see that in the future.
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Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Some questions (tiledimensions, BpM)
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2013, 06:20:44 PM »
Oh, I see, you are missing the English translation texts? That is rather odd - they should be included in the latest Simutrans-Experimental Complete. From where did you download your copy?

As to town growth, the code for that is currently under review, although changes will have to wait until the latest passenger generation changes are complete.

Offline AvG

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Re: Some questions (tiledimensions, BpM)
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2013, 05:06:11 PM »
Because of the problems I use a copy of text-file from EXP-Complete.

Please give me a link to the proper file.
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Offline AvG

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Re: Some questions (tiledimensions, BpM)
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2013, 09:15:21 PM »
Rivertiles (2)
So your public-player made on your on-scale map of Holland a main river (Maas) from the coast to the south.
In the south the height-level=2. Riverlength in the dutch part of the Maas is over 100km.
Since gravel-winning takes place in the southern part I need ship-transport.
It seems however impossible to build a boat-yard in (at) the river.
The only way I can find at the moment is lower the ground that deep, were the waterlevel is.
This does not only look stupid, it is stupid.
Also in this case we need a water-tile (river,lake). Look around in Switserland. You see there lots of large navigable
lakes fed bij rivers. I am quite sure they will be a lot above see-level.
I will try to solve this via a pak-solution.
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Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Some questions (tiledimensions, BpM)
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2013, 09:32:45 PM »
I am not sure that I understand the point about the text file: the proper version is in Simutrans-Experimental Complete.

As to the boatyards, to build one inland, you need to build a single tile canal branching off the river, and put the boatyard on that.

Offline AvG

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Re: Some questions (tiledimensions, BpM)
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2013, 12:54:43 PM »
Had a try to fork the river into a small canal and indeed I can place a boatyard there.


Where could I have found this info?  I did some trials with forking  the river into another river, but no go.
I searched the internet and forum; nothing found.


Anyway, thanks a lot again.


Text-file
Is the text-file for EXP-11 seperately to download?


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Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Some questions (tiledimensions, BpM)
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2013, 03:46:33 PM »
I am still not sure what you mean about the text file. It is included in Simutrans-Experimental Complete and the set of configuration files.

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Re: Some questions (tiledimensions, BpM)
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2013, 02:23:03 PM »
I have downed the latest Config-files and replaced the text-folder. Is a lot smaller, but seems OK sofar.
Thank you.
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