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Author Topic: Soft slopes only for railways  (Read 7608 times)

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Offline greenling

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Soft slopes only for railways
« on: November 10, 2013, 04:16:23 PM »
 :exclaim: Attention Please! :exclaim:
Do not Download The Commits r1304-1310 from pak128 they are not more Crossover useably with the pak128.Britain Commit 1296.



The Track in the Commits r1304-1310 from pak128 Useing soft slopend tile.
The Pak128.britain Commit 1296 support Soft and old Stylded slops.

Offline Fabio

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Pak128 rail tracks are intended to be restricted to "soft slopes" only. (Thank you greenling, I like this name!)
A backwards compatibility will be provided for loading old saves before stable release.

Offline Miziiik

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Fabio, can you explain me why is it only for soft slopes? Thanks

Offline Fabio

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Let's call it a design choice. In real life railways can't climb steep inclines without switchbacks and other ingenuous devices. So will it be in pak128. For steep and montaneous terrains you'll need costly engineering or different means of transport. The plan is to introduce narrow gauge tracks for steep inclines. Presently all means of transport can be built in every context. My vision for pak128 is to have them specialized according to landscape characters.

Offline Miziiik

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Re: Soft slopes only for railways
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2013, 07:43:18 PM »
Thanks for reply. I thought that nut wanted to hear it from author. :) Yeah that's good idea. Is somebody already working on NG?

Offline Fabio

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Re: Soft slopes only for railways
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2013, 07:52:30 PM »
We have a truckload of rolling stock material stashed from Raven's workshop.
It just needs someone writing their dat files.

I plan to paint myself 3-4 track sets after main conversion is completed, probably with 40, 60, 80, and 100 km/h speeds.

Offline greenling

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Re: Soft slopes only for railways
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2013, 08:41:46 PM »
Hello Fabio
I have new bad news, all roads out the Commits r1304-1310 from pak128 are not
more Crossover useably with the pak128.Britain Commit 1296.
The same problem gives at the canalsystem ,Powerlines ,Tram , Monorail and Magley too.

Offline Miziiik

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Re: Soft slopes only for railways
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2013, 08:56:22 PM »
I give you little inspiration. NG in pak128.CS:


And a question: Elevated roads are only for "soft slopes" too?

Offline greenling

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Re: Soft slopes only for railways
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2013, 09:11:06 PM »
Hello Miziiik
And a question: Elevated roads are only for "soft slopes" too?

Yes, Some of the Roads in Commits r1304-1310 from pak128 have only a soft slopes too.

Offline The Hood

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Re: Soft slopes only for railways
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2013, 10:16:23 PM »
pak128.Britain will go the same way eventually. I think it's possible to have backward compatibility by including two versions of each track, with the "old" version doing single and double heights but hidden from the menu. The "new" version on the menu would only do single heights.

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Soft slopes only for railways
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2013, 07:21:21 AM »
It is indeed.

Offline greenling

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Re: Soft slopes only for railways
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2013, 05:01:39 PM »
kierongreen & The Hood
No, which will not become so simple, because still ADDONS with makeobj 55-2 and made are older will give. ???

Offline prissi

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Re: Soft slopes only for railways
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2013, 09:31:32 PM »
You could have one way with a very hight speed limit which is then converted by compat.tab for the other ones when loading older games.

Offline greenling

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Re: Soft slopes only for railways
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2013, 09:37:13 PM »
Hello Prissi
You could have one way with a very hight speed limit which is then converted by compat.tab for the other ones when loading older games.
Than asking the player why that so it.

Offline sdog

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Re: Soft slopes only for railways
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2013, 11:22:48 PM »
Hello PrissiThan asking the player why that so it.

Well, the player can either get it from the release notes of the pakset. The pak-authors will certainly explain some of the changes. But also with common sense, it's rather well known that railways have difficulties with steep inclines. That is not only the case for climbing, but also for breaking when going downhill. A speed limit would be self-explanatory in that context.

Offline greenling

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Re: Soft slopes only for railways
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2013, 08:06:18 PM »
Hello Sdog
Here in Germany give a highspeedrailway they have strong high slope. And the train drive with 300 km/h up and down.

Offline sdog

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Re: Soft slopes only for railways
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2013, 09:51:16 PM »
That'd be most likely on the Wuerzburg-Nuernberg line,

Koeln-Rhein/Main has (extreme) 4 % and only special ICE-3 can use it.

Now compare that to roads.
5% is very often the case, 10% is not too unusual either. There are inclines of 7% on german Autobahn routes. I've regularly cycled on a road with 15% incline, cars, up to 2 tons, could take it as well.

Offline greenling

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Re: Soft slopes only for railways
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2013, 10:33:56 PM »
Hello Sdog
I have two railway line forget they have there strong high slope too.
The part goes from the Station Amstetten to the Station Geislingen west.
And the another line it from Bamberg to Hof there are strong high slope have.

Offline sdog

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Re: Soft slopes only for railways
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2013, 03:36:03 AM »
Certainly greenling, but even while they are steep for railways, it would be not very much in comparison to other modes of transport.
Bamberg-Hof: Maximum incline:   2.3  %

The "Geislinger Steige" is even famous for it's difficult crawl up the Alb mountains. It was also famous for the engineering that managed to keep the incline below 1:44.5, that is 2.25 %

I suppose that was about the maximum that could be handled without extra engines.

Look at the Brennerbahn it has a maximum incline of 3.1%. Thus it required double headed operation. (also replacing the engines when changing from Austrian to Italian networks, until in 1992 ÖBB introduced 1822, which was intended for double headed service over the Brenner)

3% is very steep for a train.
7% is steep for a lorry.
Can you see how it makes sense to allow steep slopes in game for roads, and shallow slopes for roads and rail?

Offline Sarlock

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Re: Soft slopes only for railways
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2013, 03:53:09 AM »
List of steepest gradients on adhesion railways

There are very, very few instances where there are grades over 3.5% on a railway.  As the article states, light rail can have steeper gradients due to the nature of the train, but for the most part we're looking at 3-4% at most for the vast majority of railroads.  Keeping to a half-height slope (which is still technically 11%) in pak128 is certainly reasonable.

There is a mountain range in the eastern part of my province that has a pair of spiral tunnels to ascend a steep valley, to get the grade down to a still very steep 2.2%:

Big Hill