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Author Topic: Sony blocks Blender Foundation's Sintel open movie on YouTube  (Read 6608 times)

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Offline IgorEliezer br

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I'm growing tired of this:

http://www.blendernation.com/2014/04/05/sony-blocks-sintel-on-youtube/




According to some comments I've read on reddit and twitter, it might be just the Google's content ID system acting up again. So, I wonder why a 50$-bi-worth company like Google, that looks so innovative, young and so pro-free-speech, does not implement something less broken and less hurtful to the content creators? /naïve
« Last Edit: April 06, 2014, 09:46:31 PM by IgorEliezer »

Offline Ters

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Re: Sony blocks Blender Foundation's Sintel open movie on YouTube
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2014, 08:34:17 PM »
I see someone speculate that Sony having used the movie may have triggered it. Since the filter must catched things leaked before the premiere, dates can probably not be used to tell who was first either. To be fair, it would likely take a review board the size of a small country to go through all video uploads manually at the current upload rate.

But it's frigthening how decision making is handed over to computers since data is produced too fast for anyone to manually follow. From stock trading robots to this. With all the data being collected by NSA and the like, we'll soon get systems that automatically scan them and deal out convictions completely without human involvement. People have already been denied boarding airplanes because computer systems flagged them.

Offline An_dz

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Re: Sony blocks Blender Foundation's Sintel open movie on YouTube
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2014, 09:34:22 PM »
Because the Hollywood mafia Sony & others have enough influence in the US politics¹ to create anti-speech and copyright-crazy laws² that force Google to have rude actions with its users or they would have years of headaches with Sony lawyers.

BTW, I'm not surprised this coming from a company who developed a rootkit to block and collect data injected in millions of CDs & DVDs.

¹ Billions of laws that protect them, whom all together worth less than WhatsApp alone meanwhile the internet has no laws protecting it.
² Laws which US politics thinks that applies to the whole universe.

Offline isidoro

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Re: Sony blocks Blender Foundation's Sintel open movie on YouTube
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2014, 09:49:47 PM »
These companies only understand one language:  simply don't buy their products, even if you like them.  Once a appreciable number of customers leave them, they'll instantly change.

Offline Ters

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Re: Sony blocks Blender Foundation's Sintel open movie on YouTube
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2014, 04:57:30 AM »
These companies only understand one language:  simply don't buy their products, even if you like them.  Once a appreciable number of customers leave them, they'll instantly change.

I suspect they will simply blame piracy for their decreasing sales, and just get more aggressive. At least if there is no corresponding rise in sale of indie films. (But then they'd immediately buy the successful indie companies, meaning that customers will always have to hunt for new independent producers.)

Offline ojii

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Re: Sony blocks Blender Foundation's Sintel open movie on YouTube
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2014, 11:30:35 AM »
So, I wonder why a 50$-bi-worth company like Google, that looks so innovative, young and so pro-free-speech, does not implement something less broken and less hurtful to the content creators? /naïve

This is most likely not Google/Youtubes fault at all. They're bound by law to respect DMCA takedown notices, which I assume someone (or a script) at Sony filed against the video. Until a counternotice is filed etc, the video will be unavailable. Blame DMCA, not Google.

Offline Ters

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Re: Sony blocks Blender Foundation's Sintel open movie on YouTube
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2014, 03:43:13 PM »
At least BlenderFoundation has some resources, perhaps even lawyers. They can pick up the fight and win this battle (but not the war).

And it's not necessarily Sony who filed this thing. Some one or some thing started massive flagging of gameplay videos at Youtube a few months back. Several game studios soon published statements that those getting their videos blocked should click the object button and they would immediately yield. Apparently, the alleged copyright holder doesn't even get a notification until someone objects! Or they get so many notifications that they can't process them.

I'm a bit puzzled why the battle between pirates and copyright holders went so differently for music and movies. From what I've heard, the music piracy market all but disappeared with the arrival of Spotify and iTunes. Musicians probably make more money from concerts than records, but do the labels/distributors?

Offline ojii

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Re: Sony blocks Blender Foundation's Sintel open movie on YouTube
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2014, 04:21:56 PM »
At least BlenderFoundation has some resources, perhaps even lawyers. They can pick up the fight and win this battle (but not the war).

And it's not necessarily Sony who filed this thing. Some one or some thing started massive flagging of gameplay videos at Youtube a few months back. Several game studios soon published statements that those getting their videos blocked should click the object button and they would immediately yield. Apparently, the alleged copyright holder doesn't even get a notification until someone objects! Or they get so many notifications that they can't process them.

I'm a bit puzzled why the battle between pirates and copyright holders went so differently for music and movies. From what I've heard, the music piracy market all but disappeared with the arrival of Spotify and iTunes. Musicians probably make more money from concerts than records, but do the labels/distributors?

Pretty much all major copyright holders outsource this type of work to 3rd party companies that (automatically) scan youtube etc. They do it at such a volume that informing the copyright holder (client) for each one of them is impractical.

Offline Ters

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Re: Sony blocks Blender Foundation's Sintel open movie on YouTube
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2014, 04:29:50 PM »
Pretty much all major copyright holders outsource this type of work to 3rd party companies that (automatically) scan youtube etc. They do it at such a volume that informing the copyright holder (client) for each one of them is impractical.

I wouldn't be surprised if these companies get paid more the more they find. Collateral damage is just good business.

Offline IgorEliezer br

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Re: Sony blocks Blender Foundation's Sintel open movie on YouTube
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2014, 05:36:37 PM »
This is most likely not Google/Youtubes fault at all.
ojii, honestly I'd like to share the same opinion. I disagree Google could be the only culprit, but I also disagree the company would have no blame.

Some one or some thing started massive flagging of gameplay videos at Youtube a few months back [EDIT: you can search "Content ID Apocalypse" on YouTube]. Several game studios soon published statements that those getting their videos blocked should click the object button and they would immediately yield. Apparently, the alleged copyright holder doesn't even get a notification until someone objects!
Not mentioning the cases of strikes for using copyrighted music when the video had no music, or your facecam-talk videos being taken down because you were talking about a certain game or movie... the list goes on.

In my opinion, Google makes things too easy for copyright trolls and business-censors to abuse the system and makes things incredibly hard for content creators (those who maintain a YouTube Channel), who are practically unprotected and have to carry all burden to prove the lawfulness of their content once they get an infraction strike, not mentioning all monetary loss that is *never* repaired once one has proven the content was lawful, *if* Google doesn't revoke the right of appeal in the process.

They make nearly no effort to protect those who produce content that will be used to generate revenue for the company. If they are so rigorous with content creators, at least they should also be with those who claim rights on content and verify legitimacy. And, for god's sake, they should implement a less draconian system.

There are two videos (in English) that explain better the things, both excellent:

YouTube's Content ID System: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfgoDDh4kE0 (warning: contains some bad language)
"This video is no longer available" a case of business-censorship: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuTHhtCyzLg
A video on YouTube's broken Content ID system: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJUKoIgVHCo (a company claimed rights over a video while the same company encourages otherwise - ???)
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 01:06:17 AM by IgorEliezer »

Offline IgorEliezer br

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Re: Sony blocks Blender Foundation's Sintel open movie on YouTube
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2014, 01:08:02 AM »
The video is back up.

http://www.blendernation.com/2014/04/07/sintel-restored-on-youtube-editorial/

Quote
Boing Boing hits the nail on the head with their comment:

    "While it’s probably a mistake, because this is so brain-meltingly obviously wrong, it’s also a very stark example of how sloppy, over-broad, and consequence-free enforcement of copyright can damage culture."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRsGyueVLvQ
« Last Edit: April 08, 2014, 01:42:49 AM by IgorEliezer »

Offline An_dz

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Re: Sony blocks Blender Foundation's Sintel open movie on YouTube
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2014, 03:09:33 AM »
This just proven how undemocratic and one-sided copyright laws are. Because if Blender Nation claimed copyright of something Sony has uploaded nothing would happen.

As BlenderNation noted:
Quote
So is there still a problem? You bet there is – we’re lucky to have a huge and vocal community behind us (...) If you’re a small publisher however, you will find it nearly impossible to talk to anyone and get your video back up. These automated takedowns can destroy your project and leave you powerless.

Offline Ters

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Re: Sony blocks Blender Foundation's Sintel open movie on YouTube
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2014, 04:32:51 AM »
This just proven how undemocratic and one-sided copyright laws are.

I'm not so sure they are, nor that the laws really are the problem. It has more to do with the legal system in the USA. You're guilty until you hire at least one lawyer. Just threatening with legal action is enough to defeat the average person or small business. Like a patent troll I heard about a while back that threatened indie developers into paying lots of money for breaching a patent on some trivial thing. But when the emboldened troll started going after bigger fish, he found himself up against someone that wasn't afraid to meet him in court. Then the troll turned chicken.

Offline ojii

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Re: Sony blocks Blender Foundation's Sintel open movie on YouTube
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2014, 11:26:21 AM »
In my opinion, Google makes things too easy for copyright trolls and business-censors to abuse the system and makes things incredibly hard for content creators (those who maintain a YouTube Channel), who are practically unprotected and have to carry all burden to prove the lawfulness of their content once they get an infraction strike, not mentioning all monetary loss that is *never* repaired once one has proven the content was lawful, *if* Google doesn't revoke the right of appeal in the process.

Caveat: Haven't had time to watch those videos you linked yet.

You do realize that Google doesn't do this by choice, right? It's just that unfortunately that's how DMCA works. Youtube can let users upload videos without risking getting sued over copyright infringement/piracy, as long as they adhere to DMCA. With DMCA, a copyright holder can file a takedown notice against any content they believe to be infringing and Youtube has to remove it and notify the uploader. It is then up to the uploader to file a counter notice. Should that happen the video is either restored, or the two can go to court.

I think that system is horribly broken and gives copyright holders way too much power, but blaming Google for following the law isn't fair.

Offline Ters

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Re: Sony blocks Blender Foundation's Sintel open movie on YouTube
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2014, 04:39:04 PM »
In my opinion, it should take a court order to take the videos down, and then the two would be bound for court (or a settlement out of court). But I suspect the courts wouldn't be able to handle the workload, and then the copyright violators would be able to roam free instead.

The question then becomes what's the most hurtful for the society as a whole. While there is certainly a lot a stuff on Youtube (and the Internet in general) that violates some copyright, not all of it is harmful to the copyright holders. Some of it is even benefical, as Monty Python and several others have found out. Positive violations are typically cuts, gameplay videos, or music in the background. Full rips of movies and television series are likely more hurtful, although arguably, people watch it on Youtube or not at all, making it game for the copyright holders can't win. There is a surprising amount of such rips on Youtube, some available for years and in so plain sight that I wonder why they haven't been taken down.