News:

Want to praise Simutrans?
Your feedback is important for us ;D.

[TUTORIALS] Video tutorials for the new signalling system

Started by jamespetts, August 10, 2015, 12:54:17 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

jamespetts

I thought that it might be an interesting idea to make a series of video tutorials for the features of the new signalling system in the forthcoming release of Simutrans-Experimental nightly builds of Simutrans-Extended to make it easier to understand how they will work. To make it more interesting, and fitting, I thought that it might be rather nice to make them in the style of films made by British Transport Films in the 1950s.

I have just uploaded the first video, which is Drive by Sight signalling, explaining the most basic of the new signalling working methods, which is particularly suited to trams and early railways.

I should be interested in any views that people may have as to how worthwhile that these films are and how easy that they are to understand.

Edit: The below list is added (17 October 2015; updated 12 August 2016; further updated 16 October 2016; updated again 11 December 2016; updated further 31 March 2017)

Download Simutrans-Extended.

Want to help with development? See here for things to do for coding, and here for information on how to make graphics/objects.

Follow Simutrans-Extended on Facebook.

Junna

That is a charming accent, I dare say.

I am particularly interest'd in explanations of the later signals. Am I correct to assume that this, however, will not be realised until the implementation of the signal boxes?

(On the signal boxes; how would then CTC/power signalling be implemented once signal boxes are centralised?)

jamespetts

Yes, there will have to be signal boxes before the later signalling systems are described, which should be my next coding task (unless any significant bugs emerge first).

As to power signalling, the signal boxes would have a greater range, and the signals would be of the track circuit block rather than the absolute block type, which work more flexibly and efficiently than signals using the absolute block working method.
Download Simutrans-Extended.

Want to help with development? See here for things to do for coding, and here for information on how to make graphics/objects.

Follow Simutrans-Extended on Facebook.

Ves

Yes, what a very nice film making it very clear how it works! And its a lovely accent :)

One question that wasnt answered in the film:
How will you make the trains go back to 'drive by sight' once they passed a signal? will there be a 'drive by sight'-sign you can place?

jamespetts

Whenever a train stops at a station or a reversing waypoint, it reverts automatically to drive by sight until it passes a signal: this is why there usually need to be signals at the end of a platform.
Download Simutrans-Extended.

Want to help with development? See here for things to do for coding, and here for information on how to make graphics/objects.

Follow Simutrans-Extended on Facebook.

kierongreen

Very interesting, I wonder whether signal by sight could ever be used in Standard...

jamespetts

Download Simutrans-Extended.

Want to help with development? See here for things to do for coding, and here for information on how to make graphics/objects.

Follow Simutrans-Extended on Facebook.

Jando

Congratulation, James, very nice!

Looking forward to Simutrans Film productions! :)

DrSuperGood

Would be nice if we could get a written overview of what the new system is. I mean not everyone watches only videos.

I hope it fixes the problems early trams had. I never got that loop working because tramways had no signals and only stops defined blocks.

Junna

Quote from: DrSuperGood on August 12, 2015, 12:33:45 AM
I hope it fixes the problems early trams had. I never got that loop working because tramways had no signals and only stops defined blocks.

Didn't you use the railway signals?

jamespetts

I think that committing it to writing will need to be after all the work on signalling is complete; but it should indeed fix the problem caused by only stops defining blocks in tramways and having to use railway signals on the street, which looks silly and is inefficient and unrealistic for trams.

To what loop are you referring, though?
Download Simutrans-Extended.

Want to help with development? See here for things to do for coding, and here for information on how to make graphics/objects.

Follow Simutrans-Extended on Facebook.

DrSuperGood

#11
QuoteTo what loop are you referring, though?
GRANITE on the server operates a tram loop around some city island. It was constructed with the very first steam powered trams (although has been modernized since). The practicality of this line is questionable but I still made it just for the sake of owning some trams.

At first it did not have signals. I am unsure if that was because no signals showed on the Tram UI (non-intuitive) or that early-ish signals were not working on the tram ways. The result was quite disastrous, especially when trying to replace (since they would try to go the wrong way round the loop). It seems modern signals can be used however but again they do not appear in the tram tools.

Surely drive by sight should reserve more than 1-2 blocks ahead based on visibility? I would imagine reserving up to 1 km on a flat straight line would be more realistic since the driver can see trains in the distance. However if a corner is encountered then it goes to only 1-2 block ahead reservation which would limit speed (since driver cannot see around the corner).

jamespetts

Your experience with the loop is an interesting one, and mirrors problems that a lot of people have had with trams. The drive by sight working method should help that, as will the availability of a new one way sign for railways (which also works on tram lines).

As to the number of tiles reserved, I think that this is probably accurate, especially since t is not really practical for a train/tram to keep speeding up/slowing down depending on whether there are any bends. In reality, it would be hills, undulations, slight corners not simulated in Simutrans combined with lineside obstructions, etc. that would also interfere with sighting, so a sighting distance of over 1km will not be realistic. However, I do plan for the sighting distance to be set in the pakset eventually.
Download Simutrans-Extended.

Want to help with development? See here for things to do for coding, and here for information on how to make graphics/objects.

Follow Simutrans-Extended on Facebook.

jamespetts

Here is the latest tutorial on signals and signalboxes in the forthcoming release of Simutrans-Experimental.
Download Simutrans-Extended.

Want to help with development? See here for things to do for coding, and here for information on how to make graphics/objects.

Follow Simutrans-Extended on Facebook.

Isaac Eiland-Hall

Wow. A lot of work for someone just wanting to set up a game --- but amazing for someone who wants to get into a more detailed simulation. That's amazing! I'm glad this is available. I'll have to play with it when I have time. :)

dannyman

NICE!!  esp line-of-sight ...

Who is the voice talent in the videos?

As far as line-of-sight goes, you might be able to SEE 1km ahead, but you need to be able to STOP within a certain distance.  And in town, you might expect a shorter distance for stopping, which might be reflected in the speed limit.

It might be nice to have an option to disable the signal box requirement for those players who are not ready for the complexity.  I know I've turned axle weight off on occasion because my little brain just can't deal. :)

Any wild guess when the next release might make it?  2016Q2?  If I pull and compile master ex+pak128is it playable?

Cheers,
-danny

jamespetts

I am glad that you like this: hopefully, it will be a useful enhancement. (The voice in the videos is mine, with a little bit of compression and EQ to make it sound like an older recording).

Disabling the signalbox requirement is not readily possible as one particular type of signalling - absolute block - relies on signalboxes for the actual signalling logic (the distant signal shows clear when all following home signals controlled by the same box are also at clear). Pakset authors, however, if they are content not to use signals of the absolute block method, can allow signals to be placed without signalboxes by altering the signals' .dat files.

It is very difficult to predict the release date, as it is very difficult to predict: (1) how much time that it will take to implement any given feature; (2) how many bugs that there will be; (3) how long that it will take to fix each bug; and (4) how much free time that I will have. Each of those things can vary by orders of magnitude, so the overall possible timing can vary by orders of magnitude of orders of magnitude. My current plan is not to release after each new feature, but rather keep going with adding new features until I have finished the balance critical features, as, without proper price balancing, there is really only half a game. This may take a fair while, quite possibly well in excess of a year.

However, in the meantime, there have been people who have been playing with a self-compiled version of the code and pakset. This is not an easy option, as the code will constantly be changing, may be unstable, and there will be balance issues and incomplete features. However, people playing the game in this state are very useful to me in finding bugs that I do not have time to test for.
Download Simutrans-Extended.

Want to help with development? See here for things to do for coding, and here for information on how to make graphics/objects.

Follow Simutrans-Extended on Facebook.

jamespetts

Download Simutrans-Extended.

Want to help with development? See here for things to do for coding, and here for information on how to make graphics/objects.

Follow Simutrans-Extended on Facebook.

jamespetts

I have added a further film about inland navigations: not strictly about the signalling system, but documenting several new features in the 12.x series of Experimental.
Download Simutrans-Extended.

Want to help with development? See here for things to do for coding, and here for information on how to make graphics/objects.

Follow Simutrans-Extended on Facebook.

Junna

The frame rate looks bad in the videos. Is this due to the recording software used or does the game give you that bad performance? Might turn people off if the game if they think it runs that sluggishly.

jamespetts

The framerate seems to drop considerably when I run the recording software (Cam Studio). Have you or anyone else any idea how to prevent this from happening?
Download Simutrans-Extended.

Want to help with development? See here for things to do for coding, and here for information on how to make graphics/objects.

Follow Simutrans-Extended on Facebook.

Junna

I can only remember Fraps, and I'm not sure it would produce better results. I tried to make recordings myself with some other program, and it too produced a very laggy video with both Simutrans and oTTD. Carl might know, since I seem to recall things ran reasonable in his videos.

jamespetts

I have now uploaded a new film on the time interval working method, here. I have managed to find different software (Open Broadcast Studio, used by Carl, I believe), which seems to have a better framerate.
Download Simutrans-Extended.

Want to help with development? See here for things to do for coding, and here for information on how to make graphics/objects.

Follow Simutrans-Extended on Facebook.

jamespetts

I have now added a new video on the time interval with telegraph working method.

Watch it here.
Download Simutrans-Extended.

Want to help with development? See here for things to do for coding, and here for information on how to make graphics/objects.

Follow Simutrans-Extended on Facebook.

Ves


jamespetts

A new film on absolute block signalling is now available.

Watch it here.
Download Simutrans-Extended.

Want to help with development? See here for things to do for coding, and here for information on how to make graphics/objects.

Follow Simutrans-Extended on Facebook.

Ves

Nice video James! Well informative and clear I think!  :thumbsup:

waerth

so which key to use to see the trains block reservation like you do in the video?

Rollmaterial

B for the reservation clearing tool and Shift+B to toggle reservation display when not using the tool.

ChristineR

#29
I think i messed up some where, trains don't use choice!
video
https://youtu.be/2Fi3FFVfYaY 
save file
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1A9XOpp7Zyt_3zERR2_my_4mr67AcCO29/view?usp=sharing
zipped save file---zipped save  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wA4kv41tYw-WcBAHNklZ_xP1NVzZy98q/view?usp=sharing
I viewed all the awesome video's but it is hard to see the exact signal being used in some videos.
I played with this for 4 days trying to figure it out but the bandit showed up and chased me away.
SO I come to the white hat saviors to find help.

freddyhayward

The trains are too heavy to stop at all of the platforms on the western station except one, so they don't really have much of a choice at all. They do choose at the eastern station, except that they will always choose their originally scheduled platform if it is free, which it always is, because of the emergency stops happening on the line.

ChristineR

thank you i will lighten the load and let you know how it goes.
Many Thanks

freddyhayward

I might not have been clear: the axle load is too high, not the overall weight. you could solve this by upgrading the tracks to and at the platforms

Dutchman on Rails

After a long time, the view of the new elevated ways and the possibilities of it brought me back to Simutrans Extended. This time I'm playing with mostly default settings, which has a much larger traffic potential than I'm used to. The result is more rapid expansion in the beginning and a more complex infrastructure.

I was greatly helped by T Gs tutorials and JamesPetts' signalling videos on Youtube. But as the network grew, I found I still had much to learn about the more detailed ways signalling arrangements work, and how to transition from one system to another. I'm sure I made many mistakes along the way, but it might be useful for people to have my lessons learned. So I make a few posts of this.

Let's start with a map of the network and short-term plans in december 1851. The company runs a single rail line from the largest town Mullcarry (69000) to the second town St. Lawrence Comborne (53000), where it connects to a small network of shipping services. This line runs a single train pulled by an LBSCR Sharp Well Tank, using the One Train Staff method as both JamesPetts and T G show in their videos, and is at or near capacity. Also, given that construction of the line started at St. Lawrence Comborne, the depot is between that place and St. Catherine Walford.

The immediate plan is to increase capacity by replacing the train with two new ones pulled by LNWR "Bloomer" Class locomotives, which have a higher maximum speed. While the pulling power and the heavier carriages of the time mean each train will have less capacity, the combination of two trains and higher speed equals to more capacity.

In addition, plans exist to build a new branch line from Mullcarry to Tullycardine, Ellgow, and Aillerin, eventually to reach the third largest city on the map, Ardcrenan (47000). To make the start cheaply, we want to retain the original train, which has a few obsolete but lightweight carriages. We also want some capabilities in the line to shunt trains to and from the depot without unduly affecting train operations on the Mullcarry-St. Lawrence Comborne line or disrupting the signalling system.

This leads to the following design:

The design is a combination of passing loops with signals and one train staff working methods at each end. Passing loops are created just before St. Lawrence Comborne and Mullcarry*, at the site of the future junction toward Ardcrenan, and at the stations in St. Catherine Walford and Ingleeydale. The latter two are needed because the right of way of a signal is terminated at a station, and arrival at the station clears the right of way behind the train, both behaviors could cause two trains meeting on a single track section.

*Note that for the passing loop closest to Mullcarry was added later and is not represented in the schematics.

During transition, the Sharp Well is given a replace order by a Bloomer. On entering the depot it clears the right of way it holds by returning the one train staff, after which the cabinet is destroyed to transition into the new signalling system.

Next, let's take a closer look at some of the layouts.

This is the passing loop at St. Catherine Walford. The one at Ingleeydale is identical, but with just one station. Two things are worthy of note:
1. The signals used are station signals. This is throughout the entire line and is because the transition to one track is regarded as a junction. Using station signals allows the train to reach maximum speeds.
2. There's no signalling between the two stations. This means the trains revert to the drive by sight working method in between. However, the stations are so close together that they never achieve high speeds anyway, so this is acceptable in the current exploitation.


The two trains at the St. Lawrence Comborne passing loop (an issue with not having the possibilities of scheduling entirely down yet, I may write about those some other time. There are lots of things to note here:
1. Clearly visible are the one way signs halfway down the track.
2. The one way sign in the direction of Mullcarry is placed behind the depot exit. If need be, trains can shunt toward St. Lawrence Comborne from the depot on the 'right' track this way even though the standard is left track use on the network.
3. Just before the 'entrance' one train staff box, there's an end of signalling sign to prevent a signal and the staff acting on the same stretch of track.
4. No provisions were made in the direction toward Mullcarry between the 'exit' token box and the signal. This does not revert the train to drive by sight. The effect of the signal on train speed is active from the moment the train can 'see' the signal. As it can see the signal upon leaving the staff section, the train accelerates as designed.

The location of the passing loop where the junction toward Ardcrenan is planned. After it was discovered that on this section the trains slowed down significantly before entering the junction, the two distant signals were added at the extreme range of the railway policeman's cottage. Trains still slow down, but somewhat less and this is deemed acceptable. I'm sure more seasoned players could come up with arrangements that allow trains to pass at full speed (assuming the signals are clear of course), but I'm also sure these would require additional railway policeman's cottages, and with the light traffic the current arrangement is acceptable. The other passing loops aren't affected, because the trains have to stop anyway, either to pick up or drop off a one train staff, or at the station(s).

Dutchman on Rails


Mullcarry Junction after the branch is started. The passing loop is extended and guarded with additional signals for two purposes:

1. A train coming from Ingleeydale does not reserve a right of way across the junction until it actually reaches it, so a train entering or leaving the branch line can pass uninterrupted.
2. A train in the direction Ingleeydale can wait at the end of the passing loop, again allowing a train entering the branch line uninterrupted behind.

During entering the branch line train, it was disccovered that the locomotive keeps some unknown record of the former one train staff. The result was that it would not pick up a one train staff at the cabinet. It this happens, it can be resolved by replacing the locomotive, while the carriages can be kept.