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Offline Moose

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Help me connect cities and factories
« on: July 09, 2016, 08:56:01 PM »
I have two cities with a large lake in between them. I have a sawmill in one and a tree plantation in the other. I built canals too both of them, the canal boarded the treeplantation aswell as the sawmill. I added the goods platform, stores 64 goods in the canals so ships could ship them there. The canal and the factory made up a lollypop shape -[]      -being the canal [] being the factory. I put my barge+tug boat out to make a route, when it got to the plantation it just said 0-100%, I waited about five minutes still nothing! I also have this problem using vehicle loading bay Help!!!

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall us

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2016, 12:10:34 AM »
Screenshots would help, but one thing to check: Open the properties of the sawmill and plantation to make sure that they're connected. In Simutrans, not all factories will be connected. Say your map has two sawmills. A particular plantation might be connected to just one, or both. So you have to make sure they're connected.

Also, a general rule for asking for help on the internet: Please make your subjects useful so that others may benefit; conversely, when you search for answers, you benefit from others who write useful subjects.

Offline gauthier

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2016, 07:20:13 AM »
This should help:
Quote
Setting up freight lines is often confusing for beginners. Here are the rules that you have to check so your line can work:


Considering two factories A and B, you want to transport goods from A to B.

Conditions on the factories:
_ A must be supplier of B (you see a link to B in the window of A and vice-versa)
_ If your line has already worked in the past, check that B is not already full of the good you want to transport (in B's window, numbers x/_/y are displayed for this good with x > y)

Conditions on player's line, assuming a direct connection between the two factories:
_ Station A and B must accept goods (in a station's window, just under the field with the name of the station, you see the goods'logo. In pak64 and pak128, it looks like a small pile of dirt) You can make a station accept goods by adding any station building (platform/stop/extension like a warehouse/...) which accepts goods.
_ You have at least one convoy running (out of the depot) which can load the goods you want to transport (bulk vehicles for coal for example). The type of vehicles you have to use is specified in the factories'windows.

If you have a indirect connection between the two factories, ensure that all stations on the way can accept goods and that each line can transport the goods just as explained above.

If you are still unable to make it work, please put here screenshots of both factories and stations with their information window opened and convoy (barge + tug) with information window as well.

Offline Moose

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2016, 11:29:30 AM »
How do you connect the two buildings?

There is only a [Details] and [Chart Button

One more thing, is this game fully updated on steam? That is what I am playing it off of


Mod note: please avoid making unnecessary double-posts. The forum is not a chat, prefer to edit your last comment.
~IgorEliezer
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 04:24:39 AM by IgorEliezer »

Offline gauthier

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2016, 06:43:56 PM »
Please avoid multiple posts, edit your first post instead of adding new ones.

Quote
How do you connect the two buildings?
Connecting a station to a factory is easy: the factory just has to be in the coverage area of the station (key "v"). Building the station right next to the factory is okay.

Quote
There is only a [Details] and [Chart Button
Not a problem. Just take the screenshots if you are still unable to fix the problem so we can see what is wrong.

Quote
One more thing, is this game fully updated on steam? That is what I am playing it off of
Yes it is.

Offline DrSuperGood

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2016, 06:47:29 PM »
If you have access to the public player (player slot 2) then you can force connect industries, similar to how you can make any two industries. This tool can be considered cheating since it bypasses any game mechanics to give you an unfair advantage. It is primarily intended for people who like to make model rails or scenarios.

Offline HaydenRead

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2016, 07:33:16 PM »
One more thing, is this game fully updated on steam? That is what I am playing it off of
Yes it is.
A slight qualification in regards to this:
It is currently up to date (and is generally updated to the newest stable release within 1 week of a new stable release being made available - latest stable release was in February).
The weekly_build available through Steam is more up to date, but may contain game breaking bugs, as it is based on the state of the code each Sunday - the only more up to date version than this is the nightly builds available through http://nightly.simutrans.com/ (which is based on the state of the code each night).

Offline Moose

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2016, 09:55:24 PM »
The truck is not loading, would this be caused by an increase in radious, three was to small, I have made it five, I did not work when the radious was default either. My photo is too large so I cannot post, the truck is going between a sawmill and a tree plantation I have loading bays touching both of them still not working

 Finally one more thing! Anyway to make a thing like this Sawmill -> gets taken to a port -> shipped to a distrubtion area -> gets where it needs to go


Mod note: please avoid making unnecessary double-posts. The forum is not a chat, prefer to edit your last comment.
~IgorEliezer
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 04:25:00 AM by IgorEliezer »

Offline DrSuperGood

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2016, 11:30:49 PM »
Upload the save if possible. Use a service like dropbox, google drive, one drive etc to host large temporary files for free.

Offline Moose

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2016, 12:41:23 AM »
I figured it out lol finally!

Offline Vladki cz

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2016, 05:36:38 AM »
Please share your solution, so that other players can use it too.

Offline Moose

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2016, 01:40:10 AM »
alright one last question I do not understand how choose singals work example
==X====++++++++*===
        ===+++++++++*===
+ Station
= Rail
x Choose Signal
* End of choose singal
Okay so when you hit schedual and add a stop the train will go exacally there, so what is the point of the choose signal? Or does this not work in this case?

Offline DrSuperGood

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2016, 01:57:16 AM »
Choose signal is only used if the path to the destination platform is blocked/reserved. It will then look for an alternative platform at the same destination up to a certain distance/trial count before defaulting to wait for a path to the same platform to be free (similar to a standard signal). End of choose signals block the search from going beyond them (as if there was no way from the signal perspective).

Offline Moose

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2016, 02:08:20 AM »
So my train station is like this
====+++++++++++++========
    ===++++++++++++====
any way to make the train to go to either one if the one it is suppose to go has a train in it?
Nevermind that was a dumb response sorry lol misread your message

Wait one last thing sorry, any way to put two trains on one platform?
« Last Edit: July 12, 2016, 02:20:11 AM by Moose »

Offline DrSuperGood

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2016, 04:02:04 AM »
Quote
Wait one last thing sorry, any way to put two trains on one platform?
If the platform is very long they might be able to both enter it when passing a choose signal, with the first train going to the end and the second train stopping behind. I recall seeing this in experimental where platform lengths are often 12-24 tiles so I am unsure if it is a feature of standard.

Practically an infinite number of lines could share the same platform of a stop as long as the traffic allows it. This is common with unload only stops (eg for feeding factories or one side of a passenger line where no waiting occurs). For example a pak128 Coal Fired Power Station might be fed from 4-6 different coal lines all going to 1 platform of the stop to save on stop maintenance.

Offline gauthier

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2016, 08:24:39 AM »
Two trains on one platform is not possible in standard.

Offline DrSuperGood

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2016, 04:31:11 PM »
Quote
Two trains on one platform is not possible in standard.
It is meant to be impossible. However it can still happen as the result of a combination of schedule or way changes. The convoys will teleport to some extent to correct their path and during that time they can overlap temporarily. Only 1 convoy can move during the overlap period (which ever first reserves the way) however they are still overlapped and so can technically both be at 1 platform at the same time.

Most commonly seen during reconfiguration of ways entering/leaving a terminal. Convoys on route to or leaving from the terminal will suffer minor teleportation when they hit the reconfigured entry/exit track. During this time they can be moved into or overlap with another convoy, and potentially enter the same platform as another convoy.

Hardly exploitable, possibly a minor bug but still true.

Offline Vladki cz

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2016, 06:27:03 PM »
I think you can put two trains on one platform if you put a signal in the middle.

Offline gauthier

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2016, 07:01:58 PM »
I think you can put two trains on one platform if you put a signal in the middle.
Just tried: the second train goes until the signal and waits there for the first train to go away (even with right section of stations selected in the schedule).

DrSuperGood: Of course it is still possible if you really want to do it but this thread is about doing things that are long-term viable in a savegame, not about playing tricks to the game, especially when trying to help a beginner.

Offline Moose

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2016, 08:20:29 PM »
Well Im on vacation, I'll be on this forum later, so a few questions
*Should you use passenger aircraft? I do know you should not build lots of passenger aircraft but should you build a few?
* If it's a 500+ distance away should you make it a cargo plane route?
* Should you invest in a large depot? Example: A log train will bring in logs from a plantation to a cargo station, trucks will pick up the logs from the depot than bring them to a storage facility (multiple modern warehouses) than have trucks going from the warehouses to the facilities. Than have other trucks pick up the stuff those facilities produce and bring them to be depot. Example: Production trains: Coal, Logs ect. Bring in productiables, then mineral, grain, log trucks take it to the depot. Than more production vehicles will take them to those to the factories who need productiables: grain / coal / log. Then more trucks will take the things that the factories produced to the depot and then more trucks take it to the cargo station will this work?

Offline gauthier

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2016, 07:19:35 AM »
Quote
*Should you use passenger aircraft? I do know you should not build lots of passenger aircraft but should you build a few?
There's no specific rule, if you like them and if they can be profitable, build them. In pak128, they are balanced in such a way that they have to be almost full at every journey. If you achieve having some aircrafts always flying at full load (or almost full), you will get huge profit.

Quote
* If it's a 500+ distance away should you make it a cargo plane route?
Like what I said above: as you wish. As far as I know, cargo planes are very profitable in pak128. I personally prefer trains and I will always use trains. Use what you like the most  ;)

Quote
* Should you invest in a large depot? Example: A log train will bring in logs from a plantation to a cargo station, trucks will pick up the logs from the depot than bring them to a storage facility (multiple modern warehouses) than have trucks going from the warehouses to the facilities. Than have other trucks pick up the stuff those facilities produce and bring them to be depot. Example: Production trains: Coal, Logs ect. Bring in productiables, then mineral, grain, log trucks take it to the depot. Than more production vehicles will take them to those to the factories who need productiables: grain / coal / log. Then more trucks will take the things that the factories produced to the depot and then more trucks take it to the cargo station will this work?
To make it short, you are talking about a big freight hub where all goods travel through, aren't you ? If you have many industries you could get easily overwhelmed by all the goods although it can work. Anyway I doubt this is a good solution as you will pay much maintenance for your storage.

Offline Moose

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2016, 03:20:54 PM »
Okay quick question let's say your train station gets 19,000 people a month and you add an airport will the airport deduct the amount of passengers that travel through there until the plane is full or will most passengers stop using the rail way system?

Offline Vladki cz

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2016, 03:45:23 PM »
Pax will use the path with least transfers. So if you make a direct flight connection, pax to that destination will only fly. If there will be other direct connection to the same destination (train, bus, boat) pax will use whatever arrives first.

Offline DrSuperGood

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2016, 07:46:01 PM »
Quote
There's no specific rule, if you like them and if they can be profitable, build them. In pak128, they are balanced in such a way that they have to be almost full at every journey. If you achieve having some aircrafts always flying at full load (or almost full), you will get huge profit.
Brokenly huge profit in fact. You can even air freight wool and watch the money tsunami in.

In pak64 it is very different as the only cargo plane has low capacity and is slow so usually it make very little profit compared with trucks or trains.

Offline Moose

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2016, 10:27:23 PM »
Alright one more question, that I currently have. So if you have a train station and a already developed city 100k+ people, should you build it in the city, destroy some buildings or outside of the city and have buses run into it? That brings me up to my next question will passengers take buses to the station even if the station coverage is away from the city? Sorry for all the questions I'm working on good train station layouts

Offline DrSuperGood

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2016, 11:27:24 PM »
Quote
Alright one more question, that I currently have. So if you have a train station and a already developed city 100k+ people, should you build it in the city, destroy some buildings or outside of the city and have buses run into it? That brings me up to my next question will passengers take buses to the station even if the station coverage is away from the city? Sorry for all the questions I'm working on good train station layouts
Passengers will only be picked up within a station pickup area and leave for destinations within a station pickup area. The only exception are industries where just 1 tile of a factory needs to be within the stop coverage area to get all the passengers to and from it. Very large attractions need 100% coverage.

Passengers and mail have no problem transferring from multiple times. They will get from their source to their destination by any means. There is a limit to transfer number though (which can be adjusted) but that is more for technical optimization reasons than mechanics.

Generally what I do is have a subway system for passenger pickup and then ship those directly to a station which moves them to a central hub for further transfer. This seems to be the most scale able approach to passengers and is needed when maps start to exceed 90% pickup and delivery (the case of some pak64 servers I played). For very small cities I use busses but ultimately those will eventually fail due to excessive traffic no matter what you do.

Destroying city buildings is not recommended because it removes people (they disappear). This means that you lose potential passengers and mail to transport and set city growth back several months or even years. It has been suggested in the past that population be refunded to the cities rather than removed however the changes never progressed beyond concept phase.

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall us

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2016, 11:35:23 PM »
Station coverage shows you the coverage of the station. Nothing will come from tiles that are not covered by a station. That's how station coverage works.

As far as building a large station in the middle of a city: It'll be expensive, so you'll have to decide if it's worth it to you or not. From a gameplay standpoint, money is always just a matter of time - as long as you're making a profit. So you can spend that money on expansion, or spend money on expansion + clearing tiles. It's your game. :)

Passengers will try to take the shortest number of transfers to their destination. However, there is an upper limit - definable by you - on the number of transfers they'll do (because allowing for too many would slow the game down too much). I think the default these days is nine. Which should be enough in most cases.

So it depends on how you set your network up.

If you set up a spoke-and-hub type system - basically, you collect passengers from a city (or couple or so if they're close enough; or you collect from a cluster of cities) and  deliver to a hub. That hub could be in one of the cities - or outside the city. Doesn't matter.  If it's the only way passengers can get from where they are to their destination, they'll go through that hub.

Offline Moose

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2016, 11:42:16 PM »
Alright another question let's say there 2 mail at a mail place one goes to city A other goes to C and the mail is in B. So if a mail truck stops at the mail station and it only goes to B -> C will it pick up the A mail

Offline DrSuperGood

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2016, 03:15:49 AM »
Quote
So if a mail truck stops at the mail station and it only goes to B -> C will it pick up the A mail
It will only pick up mail heading towards the stops it visits. In this case it will not pickup the mail for A because it will not visit A. Mail for A will only be generated if another convoy services the route B -> A, you will never find mail, or goods in general, going to stops that are not connected.

Offline Moose

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2016, 05:07:26 AM »
Does this also apply to passengers?

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #30 on: July 14, 2016, 07:22:15 AM »
All stops whether bus or rail have their own coverage. If they are linked by a service then passengers will use them and transfer where necessary. Just make sure you build one of the bus stops as part of the railway station. It's entirely up to you whether you have a station in the centre of town or at the edge.

Offline Vladki cz

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2016, 07:44:55 AM »
Does this also apply to passengers?

Yes. It applies to everything.

Offline Moose

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #32 on: July 14, 2016, 03:18:30 PM »
After the year 2999 does the game end?

Offline DrSuperGood

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #33 on: July 14, 2016, 06:17:36 PM »
Quote
After the year 2999 does the game end?
Yes and no... It ends in the sense that you cannot build most things anymore however it does not end in that the game will keep progressing. To keep building you will need to disable timeline.

I am not sure what the reasoning behind the removal of all build options at 2999 is. I have suggested in the past that it should evaluate the same as 2998 does and still allow you to build normally, just nothing more can ever get introduced as the year 2999 will loop infinitely (pak developer constraint).

Offline Moose

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Re: Help me connect cities and factories
« Reply #34 on: July 14, 2016, 06:20:54 PM »
How do the people who build these London maps in modern day time never increase in their timeline? So they will keep playing the game and show you these routes but they never really go beyond modern day time