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Author Topic: Gated level crossings on early railways ?  (Read 1315 times)

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Offline AP

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Gated level crossings on early railways ?
« on: January 04, 2018, 08:40:42 PM »
It appears that "the city" restricts track speed on all level crossings in the early railway era, to just 10kph, and that (if the graphics are accurate), they are ungated.


What year do gated level crossings start to appear in the pakset?  Network rail suggests they were mandated from 1839 / 1842 (the two dates reflecting that initially they had to be normally kept closed across the roads; after 1842 it was across the tracks.


Is it definitely right that there were no gated crossings prior to e.g. 1839 though? It would seem they had to get the idea from somewhere, and I can't see people being happy with those sort of slow speeds when the trains could do 60kph or more.


I can see the L&MR didn't have any, only lots of bridges (see artwork for the L&MR on wikipedia).



But I found this thread online where the "world's oldest active level crossing" is discussed, which confirms the S&D Railway (1825) had level crossings at  Heighington and Urlay Nook. Also two on the Ffestiniog in 1832, and much earlier, at Beddington Lane Level Crossing on the Surrey Iron Railway (now Croydon Tramlink). But no idea if any of those were gated.



Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Gated level crossings on early railways ?
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2018, 02:31:38 AM »
Thank you for that research - that is interesting. I have now changed the graphic for the earlier wrought iron track/cobblestone road crossing from ungated to gated, and added some earlier ungated crossing types for, e.g., cast iron and the very early wrought iron track.

However, I do not follow the issue about the speed: the speed of a crossing is not restricted differently to the speed of the underlying ways. I have just tested this with 1839 assets and can confirm that this is the case. If you build 100km/h track over a 35km/h cobblestone road in 1839 with the current nightly pakset, coaches upon the road can travel at their full speed (18km/h in that time) and trains upon the railway travel at the full speed (for drive by sight, as my test did not involve signals) of 35km/h.

Offline AP

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Re: Gated level crossings on early railways ?
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2018, 07:21:09 AM »
If in 1830 you make 27kph track cross cobblestone road, then use 'a' function to obtain info on the tile,  it reports that the city is limiting speed to 10kph. Trains do indeed slow to 10kph on the tile.

Admittedly this is with the slightly older nightly the Canterbury server is using,   but if you haven't changed it I imagine the issue would still persist in the current nightly.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Gated level crossings on early railways ?
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2018, 11:49:33 AM »
I am afraid that I tried exactly this (albeit with the latest pakset) and could not reproduce it. I do not understand what you mean when you write that "it reports that the city is limiting its speed to 10kph". When I create a crossing in 1830, there is no reference to a city, or to limiting speed: just a reference to the speed of the rail and to the speed of the road.

Offline AP

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Re: Gated level crossings on early railways ?
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2018, 01:21:41 PM »
I definitely saw physical text saying "limited by city" .  Am at work so will investigate tonight.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Gated level crossings on early railways ?
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2018, 01:28:17 PM »
I definitely saw physical text saying "limited by city" .  Am at work so will investigate tonight.

Thank you - I will need to know the exact circumstances in which this can be reproduced.

Offline Ves

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Re: Gated level crossings on early railways ?
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2018, 02:05:13 PM »
That must be a bug in the info window. It makes some checks to try and find out why the speed is limited, and might get false results. I will look into it!

Offline AP

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Re: Gated level crossings on early railways ?
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2018, 02:14:17 PM »
I saw it on the Canterbury server Ves. Look at the level crossing I wrote about on the noticeboard in game.  It's why I've been building lots of bridges...

Offline Ves

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Re: Gated level crossings on early railways ?
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2018, 02:34:59 PM »
Ok thanks!

Offline AP

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Re: Gated level crossings on early railways ?
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2018, 07:37:02 PM »
Attach is a cropped screenshot showing the 10kph limit in effect. This is on the Canterbury Server game (offline copy of) running Nightly Development Build13.0 #79db5e2.




I just doublechecked, it is not merely the info window giving false information, there genuinely is a speed reduction being applied to passing rail traffic.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 07:58:01 PM by AP »

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Gated level crossings on early railways ?
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2018, 08:03:50 PM »
I am afraid that I cannot reproduce a situation in which this occurs. Ves - can you recall what underlying data that you were accessing when you added that message?

Offline Ves

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Re: Gated level crossings on early railways ?
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2018, 09:54:27 PM »
Not by heart, but I made the logic myself, so I do think the error is mine indeed. The reason AP can see the text in both windows is that the bottom section of the “crossing” is in effect the same as the way info (crossing info window composes the window from other windows).

The logic is made so that if there IS a speed restriction (comparing the “desc” speed with actual speed) it tries to find the cause of the restriction by finding out wether it’s a bridge, tunnel or inside a city. Unfortunately, I did not find a way to definitively know why the speed was restricted, hence the checks.

I’m unable to work on it for a while, but the logic can be found in the info section in weg.cc I seem to recall.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Gated level crossings on early railways ?
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2018, 10:01:28 PM »
Not by heart, but I made the logic myself, so I do think the error is mine indeed. The reason AP can see the text in both windows is that the bottom section of the “crossing” is in effect the same as the way info (crossing info window composes the window from other windows).

The logic is made so that if there IS a speed restriction (comparing the “desc” speed with actual speed) it tries to find the cause of the restriction by finding out wether it’s a bridge, tunnel or inside a city. Unfortunately, I did not find a way to definitively know why the speed was restricted, hence the checks.

I’m unable to work on it for a while, but the logic can be found in the info section in weg.cc I seem to recall.

I am not able to work on it at present, either; I get home next week. Thank you for looking into it, however.

In the meantime, can anyone upload a saved game in which this can be reproduced reliably?

Offline AP

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Re: Gated level crossings on early railways ?
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2018, 10:04:47 PM »
I'll see if I can. Can someone remind me of upload procedures for sve files please? It's been ages since I had to do it...

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Gated level crossings on early railways ?
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2018, 10:11:41 PM »
http://files.simutrans-germany.com is the traditional location - I will need the link to the individual file.