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Bug: Timed interval signal not changing timing state correctly.

Started by DrSuperGood, March 19, 2018, 10:27:45 PM

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DrSuperGood

I thought there was a bug and turns out there was, but not the one I thought originally... Pretty obvious from screenshot attached.

Stays at DANGER no matter the time passed. When a train actually passes it changes to CAUTION even if well over 10 minutes have passed since the last train.

To quote the in game help...
Quote- <it>"Time intevall":</it>

The "Time intervall" system uses a signal with three states (also called a "Vane signal"). It is clear at default, and will set to danger whenever a train is passing. The states of the signal is then determined by the time since the last train passed the signal:

1 - <it>DANGER</it>: Less than 5 in-game minutes since last train: Stop

2 - <it>CAUTION</it>: More than 5 minutes since last train: Proceed at half line speed or half the signal's sighting speed

3 - <it>CLEAR</it>: More than 10 minutes since last train: Proceed at full speed


This signal clearly is not CLEAR after 17:04 minutes. It changed to CAUTION as a train passed at ~19:11 minutes. Seems to be happening to a lot of my Time interval signals which is why I previously reported the false half speed bug because they are at caution instead of clear like they should be.

The signals work as intended if 2 Timed interval signals exist before the next stop (one after the previous stop and one before the next stop). Also applies if the end signal is an End of signalling signal. If this is the intended behaviour the bug is with the help file not mentioning it.

jamespetts

Is this a signal protecting a junction? As in reality, time interval signals protecting a junction work differently to time interval signals on plain track (i.e. where, in the direction of running, there is another signal before there is any junction in the track). At a junction, a time interval signal will only show either danger or caution, and will only show caution rather than danger if a route is reserved through the junction. This is necessary to prevent conflicting routes being set.
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DrSuperGood

QuoteIs this a signal protecting a junction?
The signal is protecting a straight piece of track. Yes there are junctions but only directly in front of the end terminals, several stops and 50km+ away from the info window image shown. These junctions are only ever used during convoy replacement to prevent deadlock. The line itself is schedualed effectively as a large loop (with a loop behind the terminal stations to feed onto the return line) on dedicated track (no other lines share).

As far as I am aware I have to place these Flag signal signals after every stop because the train will revert to drive by sight after stopping. Even doing this it seems that unless there is also a signal before the stop it will revert to caution operation irrespective of the interval. Basically it seems the hidden (not explained in help) junction behaviour is being used when it should not be.

EDIT:
After some extensive messing around on the server game from what I can tell is that time interval signals are mistaking straight segments of track as junctions unless there is another of them, or a drive by sight sign, before the next stop. I am fairly certain this is a bug.

EDIT2:
After even more messing around the problem seems to be that the signals always consider the next stop to be a junction. As such the last Timed signal before the stop will always give the engine a caution to the stop, even if the stop is very far away (10km+) from the signal on a line without any junctions (1 way in 1 way out). Timed signals will work correctly to other time signals or drive by sight signals before the stop, or even through stations the passing convoy will not stop at but not to the stop itself.

The bug is with the Timed signal itself. If the last signal a convoy will pass before its next stop is a Timed signal, that Timed signal will turn to junction behaviour for the next passing convoy. If that exact same Timed signal is passed by a convoy which does have another signal before its next stop it will function correctly and use the intended caution then clear behaviour for the next passing convoy.

I have attached a demo map which has 3 piecies of track. 1 clearly shows the bug at work with the train limited to half speed even after 10 minutes pass. Another shows a possible but currently required work around allowing the train to reach the maximum speed (limited by signal type) after 10 minutes. A final line can be used to switch the signal between working and bugged state depending which convoys are started. Each line has several convoys, to test first copy the convoy in the depot and then start it down the line. Remember to give 10 minutes of game time between sending convoys down the line so that the timed signal can reset to clear correctly.

The current work around is to place either a Timed signal or a Drive by sight signal just before stops. This will cause the train to slow down early when approaching a stop but at least it allows the maximum speed for most of the journey distance. I strongly recommend using Drive by sight signal as not only are they cheaper but they are less prone to deadlocks with small stations, where 2 convoys keep emergency breaking into each other.

Rollmaterial


DrSuperGood

QuoteThis seems more like a technical limitation than a bug.
Except it goes against what is explained in the Timed interval signal video, stating that the trains can go at full or half speed until their next stop after which they revert to drive by sight until they pass another signal. If this is intended then the video forgot to cover it, focusing mainly on terminals which require considerably more advanced signals than currently available anyway. These are simple drive through stations, hardly some mega complex junction.

jamespetts

Thank you for the report and the saved game. Stops should not be treated as junctions, this is correctly reported as a bug. I will look into this when I have a moment.
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DrSuperGood

This appears fixed. I am using normal time interval signals to avoid the current station signal bug and they are allowing my trains to operate at full speed and to efficiently arrive and depart from stations.

DrSuperGood

This bug is back again...

Can be seen on the server game @5373,1772. The slotted post stop signal is operating in junction mode despite there being no junction. The only junctions on the line are protected by slotted post choose signals.

I tried protecting the station in front of it with either a slotted post station signal and with separate slotted post stop signals and it makes no difference to that signal's behaviour. The trains approaching the signal are in time interval mode from a station signal, not having passed any other signals since departure.

jamespetts

Thank you for the report. Can I ask whether this occurs reliably at all time interval signals immediately before station signals, or only in this specific location? I ask because it will be very difficult to debug this having to use the server game - the combination of the unresponsiveness of the server game when run with a debug build and the infrequency of trains means that it will take a huge amount of time between instances of this occurring, and I need to be able quickly to reproduce this many times over in order to be able to fix this and test the fix, so a means of being able to reproduce this reliably other than on the server game would be extremely useful.
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DrSuperGood

Unfortunately it appears to be only that signal. As far as I am aware all my other time interval stop signals (of the Vane type) function as intended. Even another signal from the same policeman cottage works as intended.

EDIT:
Attached is a test map showing this problem. The Slotted post stop signal @197,37 is demonstrating junction behaviour despite there being no junction in front of it. Again its partner in the opposite direction from the same policeman cottage is working as intended (after the junction for the depot down the line was removed).

jamespetts

Thank you for your report. I think that I have now fixed this. This is actually a different issue from that previously reported: this was caused by trains terminating in stations did not adequately set the signals to the state of protecting no junctions. I have now modified this. I should be grateful if you could confirm whether this is fixed in the next nightly build.
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DrSuperGood

This problem appears fixed now. However time interval choose signals might be broken.

jamespetts

Thank you for confirming. I am in the process of looking into the other issue.
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