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Author Topic: "Wait for time" and "loading time" problem.  (Read 522 times)

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Offline Milko

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"Wait for time" and "loading time" problem.
« on: May 23, 2020, 10:36:04 PM »
Hello

I have a line, I use "Wait for time" to space convoys.

Unfortunately I'm using a spacing time less than loading time (i.e. Spacing is 48min, loading time 90min), there are many convoys in the line.
Dividing convoy in two group by using "reverse path" don't solve, as two convoy will leave at the same time.

What way can I use to obtain a better spacing?

Giuseppe

Offline freddyhayward

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Re: "Wait for time" and "loading time" problem.
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2020, 02:38:54 AM »
You could have two separate lines over the same route, both would be spaced at 96min. One would have a shift of 0, and the other would have a shift of 180 = 48min. So, the combined frequency would be 48min.

Offline Milko

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Re: "Wait for time" and "loading time" problem.
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2020, 09:43:21 PM »
Hello

I separated the line into two different lines. I don't know if it's a bug or it's intended to be correct, but the second-line ships remain empty even if the stop is full of people who could take them. See image.

Giuseppe.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: "Wait for time" and "loading time" problem.
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2020, 02:28:51 PM »
Hello

I separated the line into two different lines. I don't know if it's a bug or it's intended to be correct, but the second-line ships remain empty even if the stop is full of people who could take them. See image.

Giuseppe.


Passengers will generally take the fastest route to their destination, so if the second line has a higher journey time than the first line (including inferred journey time if the actual journey time data has not been recorded yet), the passengers will wait for the next ship on what they believe is the faster line, if they deduce that it will be quicker overall to wait for the faster ship. You may find that this behaviour ceases when both lines have recorded actual journey times and passengers realise that it will not be faster to wait.

Offline Milko

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Re: "Wait for time" and "loading time" problem.
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2020, 10:23:51 PM »
Hello

Only 2 second difference between the two lines (see image).

I have a save, but as soon as I load it the ship is empty, after a second it is filled. Reloading the game temporarily solves the problem, in fast forward after some time the problem occurs again.

Giuseppe

Offline jamespetts

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Re: "Wait for time" and "loading time" problem.
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2020, 01:25:11 PM »
Thank you for your report. I will have to look into this. May I ask how long that it takes after loading the game before the problem reliably recurs? Also, I should be grateful if you could upload the saved game where the problem reliably recurs after this period of time.

Thank you.

Offline Milko

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Re: "Wait for time" and "loading time" problem.
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2020, 08:44:00 PM »
Hello

https://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/test2.sve

As soon as you upload the file you will see that brig hull 91 is completely empty, but a second later it fills up.You will see some brig hull approaching to "Milano fabbrica Market1750 fermata" at:
December 1815, 3:30 - No problem, passenger are boarding
December 1815, 43:30 - No problem, passenger are boarding
December 1815, 1:36:30 - No problem, passenger are boarding
December 1815, 3:11:00 - Problem, passenger aren't boarding, Brig hull (141) will depart empty....

My simutrans.exe is 32bit April 19, #0a95ad3

Giuseppe

Offline jamespetts

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Re: "Wait for time" and "loading time" problem.
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2020, 10:16:27 PM »
Thank you for this report. However, I am afraid that I am unable to load the saved game. Can I check whether you have modified the pakset in any way?

Offline Milko

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Re: "Wait for time" and "loading time" problem.
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2020, 04:23:50 PM »
Hello

I have not changed the pakset, I had downloaded the complete simutrans on April 19 (simutrans + pakset), I am using the pak britain 128 ex.

Giuseppe

Offline Milko

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Re: "Wait for time" and "loading time" problem.
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2020, 08:53:52 PM »
Hello James

I found the problem.

Save as some open windows, probabilly the new GUI cause the problem.

I close the windows and made a new save, now open with latest nightly.

https://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/test3.sve

Ready to debug :-)

Giuseppe

Offline DrSuperGood

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Re: "Wait for time" and "loading time" problem.
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2020, 01:29:02 AM »
This is an old problem that will never be fixed from what I remember. Partly because the entire scheduling system is not being maintained much due to the long term goal of replacing it for a more flexible vehicle deployment system.

A better behaviour, that I have suggested on multiple occasions, is that time slots should be skipped if a convoy cannot finish loading by the departure time. This will mean that loading time will always be less than departure time. Currently it takes the time slot but will then will depart when loading finishes. For ship lines with high frequency and slow vehicle load times this can result in multiple ships that were added to the line at the same time all departing at the same time as the departure time is determined by loading time.

Currently the only solution is to add redundant convoys to the line so that the queue time at the wait point is larger than the loading time of the vehicles. Once everything has stabilised one can in theory remove these vehicles and everything should remain spaced out correctly, assuming no time slots are ever missed.