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Author Topic: A really mixed .Pak128.Sweden-Ex discussion  (Read 991 times)

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Offline emirkir se

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A really mixed .Pak128.Sweden-Ex discussion
« on: June 08, 2018, 05:10:41 PM »
Is it possible to have the swedish pak-set in Simutrans Stable e.g. Steam version of Simutrans?
I really wish it works because my computer won't run neither of Simutrans Extended and Simutrans Extended-64.

[EDIT] Hello! I'm new to Pak128.Sweden-Ex, I come from Sweden and I live there but have only played the Steam-version of Simutrans.
When I downloaded it (from link in a post by jamespetts) I got two programs, Simutrans Extended and Simutrans Extended-64. I tried both but neither worked.
So is it possible to run the Swedish pak-set in some way in the stable version like any other pak or can you in some way get every building, car, train etc. in add-ons?
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 10:26:00 PM by emirkir »

Offline Rollmaterial fi

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable?
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2018, 05:48:54 PM »
Simutrans-Extended is a separate game with different design goals from the main Simutrans game, which we refer to as Simutrans-Standard, and Extended paksets do not work in Standard. Did you download only the two executables or the complete package?

Online Ves

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable?
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2018, 10:48:03 PM »
Hej på dig! :)

Nice that you have interrest in the pakset! The goals I had set up for this pakset is fitting best with the extended version of Simutrans. As Rollmaterial asked, did you download the complete package (executables, both paksets and a bunch of files) or just the single excecutables?
This is the one you should download ("Simutrans-Extended-Complete.zip") and place it completely separate from the "Standard" installation: http://bridgewater-brunel.me.uk/downloads/nightly/packages/
That will include a complete playable game right out of the box, including this pakset.

A note regarding Standard/Extended versions:
As mentioned, my goals with the pakset was fitting absolutely best with Simutrans Extended, however, I do not at all mind if it somehow gets adopted to Simutrans Standard as well. As you maybe know if you have studied the threads in this section, the pakset is in no way near a completion. I have painted most of the electric trains and passenger rolling stock from 1930 and later, as well as made some single earlier trains and some roads and rails. Signals are also almost done, only need to make newer signalboxes and signals for potential new signal features. Buildings and such are lacking greatly with only some experiment buildings and factories existing, and it is in no way balanced to any economical sense.

If you whish to use Standard, porting it to a (sandbox) Standard Pakset would perhaps be as easy as compiling it with a Standard "makeobj" (The tool that compiles the graphics and .dat-files, if you need help with that, just ask in this forum) but it might fail due to some specific extended features that the standard makeobj doesnt understand. Then some work in the .dat-files is needed, and that might get complicated :P

Anyway, I have seen that you want to make a map of Östersund and wanted to make it as real as possible! Did you intend to use this pakset? If yes, you maybe would like to help me with pictures of buildings in Östersund that could be used in the pakset! Im in need of inspiration  :)

Offline Vladki cz

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable?
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2018, 11:36:51 AM »
Some time ago I have tried to compile pak.sweden for standard, but failed. The problem was with vehicles with multiple liveries. They were available in depot, but with empty images. The problem is in incompatible definitions in dat files. There is extra argument specifying the livery, which is not understood by makeobj in standard and thus it creates a pak without any images. :-(   Also the signals will not behave as one would expect.

Offline emirkir se

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable?
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2018, 06:31:11 PM »
Sorry for being unclear... Yes I downloaded the Simutrans-Extended-Complete.zip file, from a link from a thread by jamespetts. (Newest Nightly availble).
It crashes when loading the new map with other settings than default and the 64-program freezes and triggers the "Simutrans-64 does not respond"-dialogue.

@Ves: Jag skulle lika gärna kunna tagit det på svenska men för att alla ska förstå skriver jag på engelska  ;).
I know that you have painted a lot of trains and stuff and those are really really nice looking, It's therefore I ask if they can be imported into Standard.
Something that I forgot to tell was that I have already started building the city in Standard, so otherwise I must start over or import it in some way to Extended. (OR import the swedish trains/buses etc. in Standard.)
It is specifically the newer commuter-trains used by SL (pendeltågen hos SL (Storstockholms Lokaltrafik)) and the trains that SJ uses. (Intercity, X2000 and 3000) (don't know the original models...)

@Ves and @Vladki: I've never used makeobj before (I don't have it installed, I'm a complete noob, so I don't know all those things that differ between Standard and Extended).
But, I have one question. I've read a bit about pixel-art that you paint an image first then import into makeobj, isn't it possible to import those images in another train with approximately the same specifications so the old train "has a new skin"? Or is it easier to start over and make those Swedish from scratch into Standard? (a bit confusing now but hope you understand).

@Ves: Yes, I would be more than happy to help you develop the .pak (even if I only give inspiration  :) ).
I currently live in Östersund and have the opportunity to take pictures of things to share. It would be nice to see Östersund come to life more exactly in-game!

SUMMARY: Reasons for transferring Swedish stuff into Standard: I already started the build of Östersund in Standard. And it's nice to use familiar trains in game!
(Or transfer the build in some way into Extended and go that way.)

Only one more thing: Sorry, but the Townhall or Cityhall or what you call it (Stadshus på svenska) is not very perfect in pak Sweden for what I've seen in the startup menu... Is that something the community can forward?

Offline Vladki cz

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable?
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2018, 07:06:03 PM »
@emirkir: Graphics for simutrans (both standard and extended) are made this way:
You have the pictures in png format, and a dat file which defines the object - if it is house, track, vehicle, its costs, max speed, capacity, etc, and also, which pictures are used for the object. Then you use makeobj to combine dat+png into pak file. There can be more objects in one pak file. You can download the sources (dat+png) from here: https://github.com/VictorErik/Pak128.Sweden-Ex. You can compile the whole pakset at once by running "make". (At least on Linux, I don't know where to get "make" for windows, maybe Ves can help). If you want to compile the pakset for standard, you will have to modify the dat files, so that multiple liveries will appear as separate vehicles. You do not have to touch the graphics. But you are more than welcome to improve them or make new ones, I think the city hall is just one of the normal houses, because no special graphics was available. I have been to stockholm recently, so I have some photos of trains to Uppsala, Roslagbanan and Stockholm trams. I'll upload them somewhere...

Also it should be possible to load standard game in extended, as long as the objects in paksets exist (by name). At least it worked with pak128.Britain demo save.

Offline emirkir se

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable?
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2018, 07:21:47 PM »
Okay, I'll try to get in to the makeobj stuff. Just from reading the tutorial on SNFOS it seemed very hard. But with your explanation @Vladki it seemed much easier.
Today, I noticed that the cityhall is an ordinary building (Ves's images in a previous thread on this board.)
I think Östersund's cityhall is much prettier! (But as I don't know pixelart and makeobj I can't make it (YET)).
Link to Östersund's cityhall: http://www.bebyggelseregistret.raa.se/bbr2/show/bilaga/showFoto.raa?fotoId=21500000104026&thumbnail=false

Do you know any good tutorials? (I saw Leartins today, but as I don't speak German I couldn't understand...)

(Read previous post by me if you aren't @Vladki  ;) )

Offline Vladki cz

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable?
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2018, 08:07:27 PM »
This is a nice guide for pixel art https://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=13339.0
It is aimed at pak192.comic, but lots of the suggestions are generally valid.
There was a nice info at simutrans wiki, but it seems to be down .... ;-(
Anyway, writing dat files is not so compicated. Just have a look at those that already exist and try to modify them, rather than writing new from scratch. Also the dat file reference for extended https://forum.simutrans.com/index.php/board,53.0.html is very good, even if you want to make dat files for standard.

Offline ACarlotti

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable?
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2018, 08:21:05 PM »
Also it should be possible to load standard game in extended, as long as the objects in paksets exist (by name). At least it worked with pak128.Britain demo save.
This does not work for the latest Standard saves, owing to changes to the save format in Standard not being fully ported to Extended (yet). I believe that saves in the 120.0 format (from mid-2014) will work; more recent saves will hopefully work again once more changes have been ported. See https://forum.simutrans.com/index.php/topic,18156.0.html for progress on porting changes in Standard.

Offline emirkir se

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable?
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2018, 10:45:18 PM »
Ok, so is it possible in any way to transfer standard into extended?

Otherwise I have to modify the Swedish so they fit into standard. Just tell me what's wrong with the originals!  :)

Online Ves

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable?
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2018, 11:21:10 PM »
Yes I feared that the multiple liveries definition would screw up the "Standard" makeobj.

As you noted, the buildings are very sparse, and the city hall is in fact just a random building I experiemented with long time ago. Since I live in Copenhagen, I got a bit stuck on the buildings since I was afraid my buildings would be too influenced from Copenhagen, and also I wasnt really comfortable with the scale to paint buildings.
Now I have made some signalboxes which I think looks nice and in a nice scale, so I have been thinking of working out from those.
That "Stadshus" is really nice, that might be my next painting project! :thumbsup:

ACarlotti, how far are we from being able to load standard games into extended? is it a matter of just a couple of more runs, or is it a huge job still awaiting?
Reasons Im asking, is because, dependent on how much work Emirkir has put into his map, the work of converting the dat-files to standard might, alternatively creating a new extended map from scratch might be easier or not.

Emirkir, if it only is the liveries definitions that is the culprit (as Vladki suggests), the work of converting is tedious, but doable!
For every single livery you want, you need to create a new vehicle definition per graphics entry. That would mean that if I in a datfile somewhere has defined a vehicle to have two liveries, which would be two sets of image definitions (read the graphics section in this thread for that: https://forum.simutrans.com/index.php/topic,15174.0.html to understand how a vehicle is defined), you need to copy the entire vehicle definition, keeping only one set of image definition per vehicle, and additonally remove the bracket with the number from the vehicle definition. Also each vehicle needs a new individual name and the constraint sections need to refer to the correct new names, which preferably should be consistent for future ease.

Example:
Vehicle is defined like this in Simutrans Extended:
Code: [Select]
# X52A

obj=vehicle
copyright=Ves
name=Se_X52A_2000
waytype=track
freight=Passagiere
length=18
payload=125
overcrowded_capacity=25
weight=65
axles=4
RunningCost=1340
intro_year=2000
intro_month=1
retire_year=2500
retire_month=1
#gear=110
power=1060
speed=200
cost=45000
engine_type=electric

constraint[next][0]=Se_X52A_2000
constraint[next][1]=Se_UB52_2000
constraint[next][2]=Se_UB52_Unpowered_2000
constraint[next][3]=Se_X52B_2000
#constraint[next][4]=none

#constraint[prev][0]=Se_X52A_2000
constraint[prev][0]=Se_UB52_2000
constraint[prev][1]=Se_UB52_Unpowered_2000
constraint[prev][2]=Se_X52B_2000
constraint[prev][3]=none


bidirectional=1
tractive_effort=71
is_tilting=0
#way_constraint_permissive[2]=2


liverytype[0]=SJ-Blaa
liverytype[1]=TiB
liverytype[2]=Player-1

EmptyImage[W][0]=X50-X54-SJ.0.0
EmptyImage[NW][0]=X50-X54-SJ.0.1
EmptyImage[N][0]=X50-X54-SJ.0.2
EmptyImage[NE][0]=X50-X54-SJ.0.3
EmptyImage[E][0]=X50-X54-SJ.0.4
EmptyImage[SE][0]=X50-X54-SJ.0.5
EmptyImage[S][0]=X50-X54-SJ.0.6
EmptyImage[SW][0]=X50-X54-SJ.0.7

EmptyImage[W][1]=X50-X54-TiB.0.0
EmptyImage[NW][1]=X50-X54-TiB.0.1
EmptyImage[N][1]=X50-X54-TiB.0.2
EmptyImage[NE][1]=X50-X54-TiB.0.3
EmptyImage[E][1]=X50-X54-TiB.0.4
EmptyImage[SE][1]=X50-X54-TiB.0.5
EmptyImage[S][1]=X50-X54-TiB.0.6
EmptyImage[SW][1]=X50-X54-TiB.0.7

EmptyImage[W][2]=X50-X54-PLAYER.0.0
EmptyImage[NW][2]=X50-X54-PLAYER.0.1
EmptyImage[N][2]=X50-X54-PLAYER.0.2
EmptyImage[NE][2]=X50-X54-PLAYER.0.3
EmptyImage[E][2]=X50-X54-PLAYER.0.4
EmptyImage[SE][2]=X50-X54-PLAYER.0.5
EmptyImage[S][2]=X50-X54-PLAYER.0.6
EmptyImage[SW][2]=X50-X54-PLAYER.0.7



---

You need to rearrange that to look like this:

Code: [Select]

# X52A SJ Blå

obj=vehicle
copyright=Ves
name=Se_X52A_2000_SJ_BLAA
waytype=track
freight=Passagiere
length=18
payload=125
overcrowded_capacity=25
weight=65
axles=4
RunningCost=1340
intro_year=2000
intro_month=1
retire_year=2500
retire_month=1
#gear=110
power=1060
speed=200
cost=45000
engine_type=electric

constraint[next][0]=Se_X52A_2000_SJ_BLAA
constraint[next][1]=Se_UB52_2000_SJ_BLAA
constraint[next][2]=Se_UB52_Unpowered_2000_SJ_BLAA
constraint[next][3]=Se_X52B_2000_SJ_BLAA
#constraint[next][4]=none

#constraint[prev][0]=Se_X52A_2000_SJ_BLAA
constraint[prev][0]=Se_UB52_2000_SJ_BLAA
constraint[prev][1]=Se_UB52_Unpowered_2000_SJ_BLAA
constraint[prev][2]=Se_X52B_2000_SJ_BLAA
constraint[prev][3]=none


bidirectional=1
tractive_effort=71
is_tilting=0
#way_constraint_permissive[2]=2

EmptyImage[W]=X50-X54-SJ.0.0
EmptyImage[NW]=X50-X54-SJ.0.1
EmptyImage[N]=X50-X54-SJ.0.2
EmptyImage[NE]=X50-X54-SJ.0.3
EmptyImage[E]=X50-X54-SJ.0.4
EmptyImage[SE]=X50-X54-SJ.0.5
EmptyImage[S]=X50-X54-SJ.0.6
EmptyImage[SW]=X50-X54-SJ.0.7

---

# X52A Tåg i Bergslagen

obj=vehicle
copyright=Ves
name=Se_X52A_2000_TiB
freight=Passagiere
length=18
payload=125
overcrowded_capacity=25
weight=65
axles=4
RunningCost=1340
intro_year=2000
intro_month=1
retire_year=2500
retire_month=1
#gear=110
power=1060
speed=200
cost=45000
engine_type=electric

constraint[next][0]=Se_X52A_2000_TiB
constraint[next][1]=Se_UB52_2000_TiB
constraint[next][2]=Se_UB52_Unpowered_2000_TiB
constraint[next][3]=Se_X52B_2000_SJ_TiB
#constraint[next][4]=none

#constraint[prev][0]=Se_X52A_2000_TiB
constraint[prev][0]=Se_UB52_2000_TiB
constraint[prev][1]=Se_UB52_Unpowered_2000_TiB
constraint[prev][2]=Se_X52B_2000_TiB
constraint[prev][3]=none


bidirectional=1
tractive_effort=71
is_tilting=0
#way_constraint_permissive[2]=2

EmptyImage[W]=X50-X54-TiB.0.0
EmptyImage[NW]=X50-X54-TiB.0.1
EmptyImage[N]=X50-X54-TiB.0.2
EmptyImage[NE]=X50-X54-TiB.0.3
EmptyImage[E]=X50-X54-TiB.0.4
EmptyImage[SE]=X50-X54-TiB.0.5
EmptyImage[S]=X50-X54-TiB.0.6
EmptyImage[SW]=X50-X54-TiB.0.7

---

# X52A Player Color

obj=vehicle
copyright=Ves
name=Se_X52A_2000_player_color
waytype=track
freight=Passagiere
length=18
payload=125
overcrowded_capacity=25
weight=65
axles=4
RunningCost=1340
intro_year=2000
intro_month=1
retire_year=2500
retire_month=1
#gear=110
power=1060
speed=200
cost=45000
engine_type=electric

constraint[next][0]=Se_X52A_2000_player_color
constraint[next][1]=Se_UB52_2000_player_color
constraint[next][2]=Se_UB52_Unpowered_2000_player_color
constraint[next][3]=Se_X52B_2000_player_color
#constraint[next][4]=none

#constraint[prev][0]=Se_X52A_2000_player_color
constraint[prev][0]=Se_UB52_2000_player_color
constraint[prev][1]=Se_UB52_Unpowered_2000_player_color
constraint[prev][2]=Se_X52B_2000_player_color
constraint[prev][3]=none


bidirectional=1
tractive_effort=71
is_tilting=0
#way_constraint_permissive[2]=2

EmptyImage[W]=X50-X54-PLAYER.0.0
EmptyImage[NW]=X50-X54-PLAYER.0.1
EmptyImage[N]=X50-X54-PLAYER.0.2
EmptyImage[NE]=X50-X54-PLAYER.0.3
EmptyImage[E]=X50-X54-PLAYER.0.4
EmptyImage[SE]=X50-X54-PLAYER.0.5
EmptyImage[S]=X50-X54-PLAYER.0.6
EmptyImage[SW]=X50-X54-PLAYER.0.7

---

Note the image definitions are different (missing [ 0 ], [ 1 ] and [ 2 ]), the names of the vehicles are different and the "constraint" section are different. Additionally there are some settings in Extended specified, like "tilting" and "is_bidirectional" but those should just be ignored by the standard makeobj I believe.
To compile the entire pakset as such for windows, you just place the makeobj file in the root folder of the pakset (if you are using a Standard makeobj, it has to be renamed to "Makeobj-Extended.exe" to be recognized) and then just double click on "Pak128.Sweden-Ex Single files.bat". That will create a complete pakset for you.

If you whish to do this, you are most welcome, but since the approach has been initiated already to follow the Extended path of Simutrans, it might be easier to get that working and perhaps redo the map ;D

If you have any whish of contributing to the pakset in any way, that would be most helpfull! Vladki already did alot of work on the signals in the pakset, for instance.
If so, tell me and I will help you setup to get started. There is few things as revarding as seeing your creations working in the game! :laugh:

Offline emirkir se

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable?
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2018, 10:05:49 AM »
Yeah, I would like to contribute to the game! Tell me! (And then I would understand this a bit better...)
I read an other way to do the compiling here, link >>> (I haven't seen any .bat files in a directory on my computer when I downloaded makeobj...) https://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=3252.0

I haven't done so much so I think I could redo and start over in Extended (if I get it to work in some way...)

I don't really understand what to write in a .dat-file, if the one you made was for a locomotive (I suppose)? The wiki is under maintenance so I can't research by myself  :P ...

The "Stadshus" I posted is called "Rådhuset" so I don't know if it is really a cityhall... Hope so! But it would fit perfectly with the estethics!

Online Ves

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable & other Pak Sweden ideas
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2018, 11:29:12 AM »
Yes, the example I provided was indeed for the X52A (that is the A-car of a X52 train set).
Go to the sources at github linked in this thread, and navigate through the folders to find the rail vehicles. Open the .dat -files and you can see that they contains sometimes several batches of vehicles separated with three or more lines ---

I will open a new thread later with some kind of tutorial how to create contents to this pakset! 😊

Offline emirkir se

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable & other Pak Sweden ideas
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2018, 11:35:20 AM »
Okay! Nice!

I'll check continously here on this board for more fun!

Thanks for the help everyone!

Offline ACarlotti

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable & other Pak Sweden ideas
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2018, 12:53:28 PM »
Ok, so is it possible in any way to transfer standard into extended?
I think the following should work:
1. Edit the source code for Standard in simversion.h changing the minor save version number to 0 in "#define SIM_SAVE_MINOR      0"
2. Recompile this source
3. Load the Standard version of the savegame from this modified build, and save it *to a new file* (in case something goes wrong, so you don't lose the old save)
4. It should now be possible to load that save in Extended.
What this basically does is tells the game to save in the 120.0 save format; it will still be capable of loading more recent saves. I believe Extended can load 120.0 Standard saves but I haven't tested this myself. If this doesn't load, raise it in a new thread in the Extended development forum with the save attached, and I'll have a look at it. If it does load but doesn't look right, that will probably be due to inconsistencies in the pakset.

More generally, I would estimate that at my current rate of progress it will be about 6-12 months before the latest Standard saves can be loaded directly in Extended.

Offline emirkir se

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable & other Pak Sweden ideas
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2018, 12:55:52 PM »
OK, sorry but:
-Where do I edit the simversion.h?
-How to recompile?

As said, I'm new to this stuff...

Offline ACarlotti

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable & other Pak Sweden ideas
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2018, 01:50:43 PM »
I think you use Windows - right?
In that case one of the following should work. These are some instructions for compiling Simutrans under Windows:
https://forum.simutrans.com/index.php/topic,16608.0.html

If you have any problems with those, you could instead try these instructions (for Simutrans Extended, except downloading the source from https://github.com/aburch/simutrans instead of the using the Extended source). I think that should also work.
https://forum.simutrans.com/index.php/topic,14254.0.html

Offline Vladki cz

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable & other Pak Sweden ideas
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2018, 02:31:24 PM »
I think you can choose the save game versions even without recompiling. It should be possible to set it in advanced settings - press i or ~ (it depends on pakset). It may be possible also to set it in simuconf.tab

Offline ACarlotti

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable & other Pak Sweden ideas
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2018, 03:49:19 PM »
I thought that would be the case too, but I can't find any way of doing it in-game (and I can't get an advanced settings menu), simucconf.tab doesn't mention it and the save version seems to be hard-coded in too many places (via #defines) for it to be customisable in-game. It's possible that this is different in Extended - remember we're talking about saving from within Standard here.

Offline emirkir se

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable & other Pak Sweden ideas
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2018, 06:25:04 PM »
This was an edit on a different board before, but I thought it would fit better here...

Question: Is this pak (Sweden) still in early development? Because I don't notice any factories working... There are only one that produces something, others only consume stuff.
If yes, I would be very happy to help out (now when I got Extended to work) but there's a catch, I don't really know how to make stuff and such...

I checked out Pak.Britain and it looks much more developed than Pak.Sweden, but it still looks very dark and old (with 2018 as set year)... I would personally choose Standard instead, because it's more brighter and happier. But if it works to add buildings from standard to extended via add-ons, but that would result in heavy loads of work to make it look nice. (NOT COMPLAINING!!! Only giving my own thoughts...) I would really want to help you guys, only if someone helps me to start  ;).

@Ves How's it going with your tutorial?

Thanks!

Offline Vladki cz

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable & other Pak Sweden ideas
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2018, 07:40:21 PM »
Emkirk, pak.sweden is in early stage. And there really are very few buildings (factories, etc). Most of the development went into railways. So at this moment you can play only in sandbox mode (no bakrupts), and deliver mail+passengers. Any help would be welcome. Look the guide from pak.comic about painting buildings in pixel art mentioned above, and try yourself making some simple (one-tile) house. Then you can copy paste the dat file from some other house/factory/station from other pak. You can look at sources of many paksets at sourceforge SVN: https://sourceforge.net/p/simutrans/code/HEAD/tree/

Online Ves

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable & other Pak Sweden ideas
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2018, 09:41:16 PM »
Vladki is correct that this is in very early development state.
I was taking a bit water above my head when I said I could produce tutorials, since that is also quite time consuming, and I have been really busy now this week!

My intends are to create a full tutorial, but for now I suggest you do the following to get started:

Download GIMP which is a picture editing software ala photoshop, but this is freeware. I’m only on my phone this weekend, so I can’t easily provide links, but it should be searchable from google.

Download the sources from github. I recommend you create a github account and download a local branch of the pakset which can then be synced with my pakset branch.

In the sources, I have currently only provided sources for the signals, so go ahead and find the signals in the sources and you will find that each png file has a corresponding file with the same name (but another ending after the dot, something like “xcf” however I cannot remember that as of right now), which are to be opened with GIMP.

When that is opened you should note a few things:

In the Swedish pakset (and all other 128 pixel based pakset) a picture of “something” must be within a square of 128 pixels. There is a layer in the bottom called “linjer” or similar which will display these 128 x 128 grids that each objects has to be inside. This is true for all objects in the pakset.

Note how Vladki and I had built the signals up in layers, with separate poles, signs, lamps, lamp heads etcetc.
This is the way that I build up all my objects and this way makes it very modular and easy to reassemble into new stuff.

Now go back and locate the buildings images. They are hidden in there a little bit, but should be locateable.

I know there are no GIMP-files, but open the png files and have a look at the buildings inside:

Also here, each building is residing within one 128 x 128 pixel big square.

The buildings are built up using layers, just like the signals are, one for each “feature”. Have a look on the progression picture i took of the Östersund Stadshus to get an idea of how the layers are used. I will upload the sources for the buildings I have when I get home next week so you can investigate how I made the buildings.

To make shadows, you should think that the sun is the south (lower left corner of the screen).
The shadows has its own layer(s) (dependent on complexity of the drawn object) and I usually make them this way:
Color: black
Faces facing south: transparency 90%
Faces facing east: transparency 70%
Faces facing directly to the screen (south-east): transparency 80%

Roofs is different, and the roof facing towards the sun gets almost complete transparency and roof facing away from the sun gets quite little transparency.


The scale to make buildings is ranging a bit from 15-25 meters per tile.
That means that in game one tile of building is either 15 meters or 25 meters long.

The trains in game are scaled to 24 meters per tile but buildings are difficult since it doesn’t look good with too small buildings.

What I usually do is to grab an existing object like a train car and copy into its own layer in my build so I get a sense of how the scales will work out.  Especially if it is a train related building.

How I usually start making a new object is to copy an old quite similar object, and then change it layer by layer. I know this is difficult for you right now since there currently are no building sources on github but I will upload the once I have soon.

But if you could spend the weekend studying what I wrote and think of some easy to start with building, then I come back next week and help you out further 😊

Offline emirkir se

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable & other Pak Sweden ideas
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2018, 11:41:39 PM »
Ok! This weekend is free, so I can study!
I’ll look in to the tutorial @Vladki mentioned and I will start building!
I’ll make a Github account, and I already have Gimp installed, so I’m halfway there :D.

Online Ves

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable & other Pak Sweden ideas
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2018, 05:34:08 AM »
Great!

There are a few things that is just “good to know”:

Blending:
Everything (or practically everything) in the picture must blend. That is done using the pointing finger tool, and to blend a typical straight border (straight in a tile sense, that would be a line that parallel to the tile border) you should use some techniques:
There is a feature in GIMP that allows you to first press the tool at one pixel, then pressing shift, and a line from the point you clicked with the mouse until the actual mouse position appears.
To equally blend such a border you first click the tool In one end of the straight line on the pixel of the thing that should blend. It should be the pixel that is surrounded by the border on two sides.
In the other end you locate a pixel that is on the other side of the border, but also surrounded by two sides of border and press there while holding down shift. So the first mouse click was on the object that should blend and the second click was next to the object that should blend.

Now the ends near the clicks always end up differently so you should delete the outermost pixels and copy some of the new pixels from the border to make it equal.

Offline emirkir se

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable & other Pak Sweden ideas
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2018, 09:03:49 AM »
Ok, so you mean like this tutorial I found about Dithering and Anti-Aliasing?
https://youtu.be/h63_OZ5Zuu

EDIT: What size should the bottom grid be to fit the squares in-game (the pink square underneath the ”Stadshus”)? Is that 128x128? Or is it the whole image 128x128? Also, how is the stripe built or do I have to use Blender? And the height of buildings, your Stadshus were way above the top dark blue grid, doesn’t that disturb the image above?

And how to get the size of sprites so I know how much space I work with?
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 11:51:14 AM by emirkir »

Online Ves

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable & other Pak Sweden ideas
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2018, 11:59:05 AM »
The stadshus is considered to be “two tiles heigh”, meaning that it has the bottom blue tile defined once and the top tile defined once.
If I only defined the bottom tile, the picture would be cut along the blue line.

I can’t see that tutorial, but I suppose it is similar as to how they do it.

To find a ground tile, you can look in the way images (it is also buried in the file structure) there you will find some types of ways that fill an entire tile.

The geometry of the ground tile is a diamond, that is 128 pixels in horizontal and 64 pixel in the vertical. That means that two diamonds should fit in the blue square.

Offline emirkir se

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable & other Pak Sweden ideas
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2018, 12:03:43 PM »
I downloaded the branch to have a local copy so I can mess around, and I found your work on the red cottages, also in the GIMP-format with all the layers so I can use the blue squares and the pink diamonds in my test-work.

So if the work is higher than one blue square, the blue square above needs to be empty, am I right?

Then it’s all about painting! (You have to help me with the merging and coding, and GitHub stuff later, now I’ll try to make some buildings now when I found the template (nu när jag hittade mallen)...)

EDIT: New link to tutorial mentioned in a post above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h63_OZ5ZuuI

Brb...

Online Ves

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Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable & other Pak Sweden ideas
« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2018, 12:24:50 PM »
The layer with the blue squares, as well as the layer with the blueish background, you hide when you want to export the images. Great that I had already included some sources, so you can work out from those.

The way I create grainy pixelation is to use the feature “HSV Noice” I believe it is called. There are some settings in there to help adjust stuff to ones liking!

Merging and all that github stuff, we take at another time, since I also don’t know how to do that efficiently at all 😛

Happy painting! 😊

Edit:
Watched the video, and although the video is correct, it is not the technique that I use or find simplest:

In GIMP you have layers. You should never have more than one color generally on a layer unless small specific stuff.

Where the video first has to find out what the blended color will be, and then paint it, we use the opacity of the color to determine the blend.

So in his example, we would have to have the background on one layer and the line on the other, and the way we create the blend is to use transparency of the “line” layer.

Have a look on my buildings and you will se that, for instance the roof is blended on top of the base of the building
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 12:39:42 PM by Ves »

Offline emirkir se

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable & other Pak Sweden ideas
« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2018, 12:30:02 PM »
It would help if you put more sources later when making more advanced stuff like those IKEA’s you’ve done and other multi-square-buildings or what you guys call them.

I’ll check the DAT-files later and I’ll try to understand how those connect to each blue square (that I hide) in the GIMP-file.

An image that I got very confused on was this (please explain  :) )
https://github.com/VictorErik/Pak128.Sweden-Ex/blob/master/Buildings/Images/Normal%20Buildings/City%20Buildings/10m_City_House_1_output.png

Online Ves

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Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable & other Pak Sweden ideas
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2018, 12:40:16 PM »
Oh, I just edited my post above yours 😛

Edit:
That house is the result of the program “tile cutter”:

The house is too big to fit inside the 128 x 128 square, so “tile cutter” has taken the part that sticks out, and putted it in a new square.
That was a very old experiment and I have not used tile cutter since, and I always wanted to redo that building.
If you look in the datfile (don’t remember what it’s called) you will see the references to the different parts of the building.

I recommend you start by focusing on single tile and single height buildings to start with to get used to everything :)
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 02:21:48 PM by Ves »

Offline emirkir se

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable & other Pak Sweden ideas
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2018, 04:05:21 PM »
Yes, it's a too big challenge to start with "Modular" buildings (I think they're called like that).
I've already started my first project, an ordinary white modern Swedish house made of tree.
Real world image: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bN4hQFzIyLAszIEJCuZFNXYUVd--z61k/view?usp=sharing
Progress in GIMP: https://drive.google.com/file/d/19wt8ra160NzsDpS3tblLpDvH-xPLFEzx/view?usp=sharing

What do you think? Something that I must think of or change? Thoughts?

Online Ves

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable & other Pak Sweden ideas
« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2018, 05:00:21 PM »
Yes it is looking really good so far! :D I think its good practice to make a sketch up first, so you can visualize the parts of the house!

One thing:
Maybe it is work in progress, but since the horizontal lines are so small on the real house, I would not emphasize them that much as you did.
You can do two things, and even combine them if you wish.
1)- make the lines have an the alpha value of maybe 1%-3%, which will make the lines barely visible. As long as you see the edgy lines on relative close zoom, they are to much visible.

2)- The surface of the house does perhaps look a little bit “grainy” from a distance (imagine the house being around for many years). That you will achieve with the “HSV Noice” tool. Experiment with different values and see what they do! :)

Offline emirkir se

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable & other Pak Sweden ideas
« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2018, 06:17:21 PM »
Okay, thanks for the advice!

I will try out the HSV Noise tool (NMI Brus-verktyg i svenska GIMP) and make the horizontal lines less visible with alpha set to 1-3%.
You mean: Layer → Transparency → Threshold Alpha? (GIMP 2) (Lager → Transparens → Tröskla till alfa)

EDIT: The Threshold Alpha set to 1-3% didn't change anything, I'll try to change to a lighter grey or change opacity.

Online Ves

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Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable & other Pak Sweden ideas
« Reply #33 on: June 16, 2018, 06:35:43 PM »
What I usually do is that I select the object I want to alter, you could press ctrl- a to select everything.
Then I cut it out of the picture (ctrl - x) and paste it back again directly (ctrl- v). Now you can move the selection around and it has become its own small layer. Then on the top side on the layers window, you can select the opacity. It’s preselected to 100%, but you can slide it all the way down to 0%. When you are happy with the transparency you select outside the selection to merge the object back down to the original layer. If you want to make adjustments, it is easy to just press undo (ctrl - z) and it becomes this floating layer again.

I would highly recommend the lines, as well as all other kinds of lines and shadows, to be made out of complete black.
That way it will work with any color you may choose the house to be in.

Offline emirkir se

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable & other Pak Sweden ideas
« Reply #34 on: June 16, 2018, 07:32:44 PM »
Okay, so it is the opacity I should work with! It was too big and easy to find, therefore I didn't find it  ;) :D!
Progress: The roof base-color is painted and the lines is lightened up to R=250, G=250, B=250, now they're almost gone (Did that before I discovered the big opacity slider...)
Will continue tomorrow...

Thanks for your advice Ves!

Online Ves

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable & other Pak Sweden ideas
« Reply #35 on: June 19, 2018, 07:00:44 PM »
So, I have uploaded my sources for the rest of the buildings, so you can just dive into it!

Im looking very much forward to see your progress on the house!  :)

Offline emirkir se

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Re: Pak Sweden in Simutrans Stable & other Pak Sweden ideas
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2018, 10:24:10 PM »
Sorry, but I've been very inactive with my building...
Have had a lot of other work/stuff to do lately, and the house isn't the highest priority.
But I'm glad to say, the house is done and I'm currently working on the garden.
(Only first view, the others will be done much faster when I have a great looking design!)
I have also practiced modifying DAT's and png's to recolor and modify others vehicles so I'm getting the hang of vehicle-DAT's.

Thanks Ves! I'll check out the sources for your work later when I have time.
Just a question, how much bigger is the "square" in .pakSweden than in .pak128? (the pink grid on your work, that says how big lot you have to work with.)

Just curious, but how's it going with your Stadshus? :D

Offline Vladki cz

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Re: A really mixed .Pak128.Sweden-Ex discussion
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2018, 06:31:36 AM »
The square is the same 128*128 pixels

Offline emirkir se

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Re: A really mixed .Pak128.Sweden-Ex discussion
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2018, 11:24:50 AM »

Online Ves

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Re: A really mixed .Pak128.Sweden-Ex discussion
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2018, 11:30:55 PM »
Im away on vacation myself, so I do not have any simutrans time at all for a couple of weeks. However, I read the forum as often I can :)

Yes, it is indeed the same tile base as the normal pak 128. In fact, the actual name of this pakset is pak128.Sweden-Ex which tells the user that this is 128 size (and it is for Extended).
It is theoretically possible to use any pak128 size graphics directly in this pakset, however the scale, style and alignments are potentially way off. Therefore it is not recommended to just mix the graphics without checking that it does indeed look good in this pakset too.

The house is very cute, well done! I do think you can work a bit more with the anti aliasing:
For instance, Look at the top and bottom of the windows, they are full color jaggered. They need to blend in with the white base of the house, by having successive more transparency closer to the edge of the window. Look at how I have done the windows in my sources. You will find that there are two transparent pixels, which is all you need. Also on the roof, I think the lines can both be anti aliased and be toned down drastically, since you would not see those shadows so big from many hundred meters up in the air. Check my sources layer by layer and you can see how big effect very very small and discrete stuff can do.

I would recommend you to copy parts that I have already created, for instance windows, window frames etc, just changing the color.
Whenever I create a new house or train, that is what I do. I copy the entire thing, and just change it layer by layer to what the new house or vehicle should be. That is much easier and saves a lot of time, and one can save the effort of inventing the wheel over and over again. :)

Well, I have not had much progress on the stadshus lately. The last thing I was doing was the base of the tower, which will be split directly between two tiles. Good thing with that building is that I only need to create half of it and then the other half can be automatically created by rotations and mirroring :)