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Offline Ranran jp

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More graphical symbols!
« on: September 29, 2018, 12:46:57 PM »
Hi all! Ranran tried an adventurous improvement of some dialog disign. (´・ω・`)
How about these?

#1:Evaluation from passengers


The snail represents "Too slow". Is this confusing?
Another idea is a tortoise. Can I steal it from Super Mario? :police:

BTW, I had a strange feeling of the order of symbols and numbers so far.
I feel naturally in the opposite position, is this unique feeling of the Japanese?



#2:Signal method

I think this is a failed work... ::-\
Can this be used elsewhere?


Here is my Github branch.
Before you start using this, you need to add new symbol pak files to the pakset folder.
I attach the source image and dat file and symbol pak files.


NOTE: This patch is not completed yet, and you can not start up these files if you do not have them.
But I have no idea how to avoid this problem and my skill may make it impossible to accomplish. (´・ω・`)

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: More graphical symbols!
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2018, 03:15:47 PM »
Thank you for this - this looks very interesting. Before I integrate this, I should be grateful for feedback on others on the clarity of the symbols. One thing that I do wonder is whether, if we are changing the symbols now, it might be better to be clearer (both in symbols and text) about what "unhappy" really means, as it is actually very specific: it means either that the origin stop was overcrowded, and therefore the passenger could not board or that the waiting time was so long that the passengers gave up. I wonder whether there is a clearer way to communicate this?
(Incidentally, I prefer the snail to the tortoise).

Offline Vladki cz

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Re: More graphical symbols!
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2018, 04:51:58 PM »
I prefer text instead of icons.
Especially the sad face and the one next to it are absolutely unclear. And yes what is unhappy? Perhaps it should be categories :
Station overcrowded, convoy(s) overcrowded, waiting too long for (any/non overcrowded) convoy, no route at all, route exists but takes too long, route exists but only for higher class

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: More graphical symbols!
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2018, 04:59:40 PM »
Would both text and symbols be satisfactory - perhaps mouseover tooltips?

As to the additional categories - that would involve some quite serious additional coding, especially for the route exists but only for higher class display (which would also very significantly increase computational intensity on higher maps, as it would require route-finding twice in many cases).

Offline Ranran jp

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Re: More graphical symbols!
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2018, 05:17:05 PM »
Would both text and symbols be satisfactory - perhaps mouseover tooltips?
I also thought that it is best way to display tooltips by mouseover. Is inserting a tool tip in this place requires complicated code?
I mean this is not a kind of buttons or text boxes.
Are there any currently code that I can refer to?

EDIT: I succeeded in displaying the tooltip on the symbol. It is still necessary to optimize the position.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 09:27:37 AM by Ranran »

Offline DrSuperGood

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Re: More graphical symbols!
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2018, 05:23:34 PM »
The symbols would need explaining at least in the in game help, and better yet with hover over tooltip.

Such hoverover tooltip could read like "Passengers lost due to potential journies being too slow".

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: More graphical symbols!
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2018, 05:41:10 PM »
I am not sure how complex that adding tooltips would be, as I have not looked into this code for a long time

Offline Frank

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Re: More graphical symbols!
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2018, 05:59:20 PM »
The symbols for the passengers are needed because the previous ones are in the font file. But not every font file contains these.

If you set a different font, then these symbols are usually missing.

Offline Vladki cz

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Re: More graphical symbols!
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2018, 08:29:07 PM »
Using symbol for signal method is not consistent with the rest of the dialog.

Using symbols for un/happy, no route etc is visually ok if there would be a mouseover hint with meaning. And that could be more descriptive than just happy or not.

Offline Ranran jp

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Re: More graphical symbols!
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2018, 02:10:51 AM »
Yes, I have recognized that I was a failure using symbol this for signal method. On the actual game screen such small symbol was hard to recognize.
However, since the word "signal" was not originally included, I think that it is better to display both text and symbols for the player.


Using symbol for signal method is not consistent with the rest of the dialog
In terms of consistency, the "Current working method" is not a convoy spec (like eco drive mode), so I think there is a merit to making it easier for players to understand.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 02:27:57 AM by Ranran »

Offline Ves

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Re: More graphical symbols!
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2018, 09:01:59 AM »
I agree in some way to let some more symbols into the game. When playing a game like Civ V, you have symbols all over the place, and it can sometimes be a little difficult to remember what each symbols mean. It is, however, extremely consistent so you know that things are the same if it has the same symbol, and you can hover over most of them to get a tooltip. Once you get used to the symbols it is extremely effective, and really makes the information more easily available.

In Simutrans, there currently is a symbol for each waytype, the three major good categories, and a happy face and a sad face if I havent forgotten anything. Already those are not used consistently, for instance the waytype symbols I think could be used in the stop detail window to help differentiate what waytype the different lines has serving the stop, the cargo manifest of the convoy window could display the cargo symbols, together with, or instead of, the cargo category name, just to name a few.
I have tried when I have made GUI-patches to use the existing symbols more, namely the cargo symbols, since those are already very well established in the game. I have used them where it would be too long to write out the good, for instance in the depot window just under the "change prices" button.

What Im worried about is that new symbols doesnt have a meaning yet, for instance the signal symbol you made is very nice I think. It is, however just not established that that symbol would mean "working method". You would need to present that symbol also in the signal info window, and if possible at all also in the tooltip for the signal icon. Otherwise people will not see that symbol enough to connect it with "working method". I would also move the symbol to right before the working method name:
"Current working method: [symbol] one train staff
That way, it would be consistent if you put it into the signal info window right before the working method entry there.

I think the smiley faces in the stop window are nice too, they help draw attention to those numbers which, at least I, often tend to forget all about. The same issue here though:
With this emphasize on the smileys, you need to know what those are all about, and that would be great with a tooltip when hovering above the individual smileys.
I would then go out and find more places those smileys could sit, for instance in the "Stop list", found in the "List's" menu and also in the "line management".

What I would wish for is an icon for each cargo type, wich of corse would be pakset specific. Those icons could live many places, for instance in the convoy window, the depot window, the line window, the individual convoy entries in the line window etc.

Offline Vladki cz

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Re: More graphical symbols!
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2018, 11:45:33 AM »
Maybe "working method" is not a good wording either. If I wouldn't be so interested in signaling I would have hard time guessing what does it mean. Perhaps "signalling method" would be more appropriate.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: More graphical symbols!
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2018, 01:51:12 PM »
"Working method" is the correct term - "signalling method" is ambiguous. Also, the term "working method" is used in the signalling tutorial videos.

Offline Ranran jp

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Re: More graphical symbols!
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2018, 10:55:40 AM »
Regarding halt info, I modified to display tooltip when mouseover on symbols.


You would need to present that symbol also in the signal info window,
This might be difficult for me.
I have no idea how to modify signal_t::info() or signal_info_t::signal_info_t()...
Although I can add or edit text data, I do not know how to insert an image there.

Quote
if possible at all also in the tooltip for the signal icon.
Also the current tooltip seems to only accept text data.


I wish I could do that. (´・ω・`)


Quote
"Current working method: [symbol] one train staff
That way, it would be consistent if you put it into the signal info window right before the working method entry there.
This was helpful and I thought it is better to represent that "Signal symbol" is under control of either signal working methods.

That is, in the case of drive_by_sight, it means that this signal icon is not displayed.

And make sure that you can check it with tooltip when you mouse over this signal symbol. (Please translate it.)


Quote
What I would wish for is an icon for each cargo type, wich of corse would be pakset specific. Those icons could live many places, for instance in the convoy window, the depot window, the line window, the individual convoy entries in the line window etc.
That's it! I wanted it too.
Code: [Select]
# categories:
# 0 = type defined (unique)
# 1 = piece good (i.e. crates of XY)
# 2 = bulk good (i.e. ore, sand, coal)
# 3 = oil type fluid
# 4 = piece good refrigerated (i.e. cooled crates of XY)
# 5 = liquid food
# 6 = long goods (planks, steel (any flat-bed))
# 7 = fabric (or any lightweight packed goods - crates, sacks)
(catg = 5 and 7 are not used in pak128.britain-EX)

I tried making goods category icons. How's this?

** This is a composite image. Not a in-game screen shot.

As Ves said, it will help the player to distinguish them and useful in many dialogs.

Offline ACarlotti

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Re: More graphical symbols!
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2018, 12:49:11 PM »
Something to note is that there will be changes to the way that gui windows are built once the recent changes from Standard are merged into Extended. This will probably happen within about a year. So if something seems difficult to do now, then that might change in the future.