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Offline Ranran jp

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Passengers evaluation icon on station information window
« on: January 11, 2019, 11:44:25 AM »
Now I start that work again.
I am sorry on my previous attempts to proceed several things at the same time. It led to confusion. So this time I focused on the station information and split this from thread : More graphical symbols!.

Currently there is no consistency because symbols and text are mixed.
Also, as pointed out by Frank, not all fonts also have face fonts.
There ware opinions that tool tip help is necessary for symbolizing.

Now I updated the patch. (split it to new branch.)



Changes from last time:
-It is now possible to launch even if there is no icon pak file.
 NOTE: When there is no icon, it is the same display as before. In order to display icons, four icons must be present.

-The text of the tooltip diverted the existing text as much as possible. The explanation of the icon is the same as the help text of the chart button.
  Only one translation word - "Passengers:" is newly required when using symbol icon.
  This intentionally distinguishes it so that you can prepare a suitable translation for this place.
  For example, in the case of Japanese, the word "旅客の評価"(passenger's evaluation) was originally used here, but if divert "Passengers" it will become "旅客"(passenger).

-I added the same notation as chart label on tool tip. This will clarify the relationship between the icon and the chart.

-The image with the alpha channel on the GUI is buggy affected by nighttime display, so I took countermeasures. (This is a common bug with Standard.)
  Do not use png and pak which previously I attached to that thread.



You can change the design by preparing pak files. Conversely, if you delete those files you can return to the previous display.
Please refer to attached dat and png file for how to make icons.

I attach a modified version of png and pak file.

Please tell me the face icon about this matter of you, HAPPY or UNHAPPY or (´・ω・`)?

EDIT: move tooltip display position downward and added sample image to this post

EDIT2: I updated symbol and source files and put those in one zip file. - 1/14/2019
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 06:15:44 AM by Ranran »

Offline wlindley

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Re: Passengers evaluation icon on station information window
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2019, 02:10:26 PM »
Color ideograph icons are good, but the colors need to match.  You have a yellow happy face that corresponds to the white line on the graph, an orange frowny face that corresponds to the red Unhappy line, a red "No entry" symbol that corresponds I suppose to the blue No Route line, a yellow blob of some sort that corresponds to who-knows-what color on the graph.
Instead, you should have a white happy-face for the white line, change the graph's red Unhappy to orange for the orange frowny-face, make the graph's No Route be red to match the No Entry icon, and clarify the fourth icon by making sure its color matches the corresponding legend and line on the graph.  Then the whole thing starts to really make sense.  Right now it's confusing because of conflicting color meanings.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Passengers evaluation icon on station information window
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2019, 09:15:44 PM »
Thank you very much for this: this is most helpful.

First of all, I do agree with W. Lindley that it would make sense for the overall colour scheme of the icons to match the colours of the chart. Yellow is a well known colour to associate with a happy face, so in this case it might well be worthwhile changing the graph colour for this (a straight swap with "waiting" should suffice).

If we are looking at this, I do suggest that we reconsider "unhappy", as this has a more specific meaning than the word "unhappy" usefully conveys. It refers either to overcrowding or excessive waiting time. I wonder whether this specific meaning could be more usefully conveyed both in text and graphics?

Also, I should be interested in feedback from others on these proposed changes.

Offline Ranran jp

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Re: Passengers evaluation icon on station information window
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2019, 07:51:23 AM »
but the colors need to match.
Yes, it is exactly right. I agree. Thank you for pointing it out. :thumbsup:

Changing the color definition may affect others, so I checked the whole and changed the color.

The color was referred to other windows.
"Convoys" is "Convoys" of Line manager, "Waiting" is "Congestion" of City window, "Arrived" and "Departed" are "Transported" and "Passengers".
Are these colors getting better?

I do suggest that we reconsider "unhappy"
This problem was also pointed out by Vladki before.

Certainly I think Unhappay is an expression that also includes No route and Too slow, but there is a difference whether their travels were succeeded or not.


So I put "/" instead of "," here. how is it?
If we add a distinction between "overcrowding" and "excessive waiting time" later, it will be on the left side item.
Color: purple is left for "overcrowding".

I think that it is better to break "Unhappy" when separating "overcrowding" and "excessive waiting time".
If there are more appropriate short word to express the meaning that the trip was successful but could not be satisfied (caused some kind of problem), you can also respond by changing the translation file.

Offline Phystam jp

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Re: Passengers evaluation icon on station information window
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2019, 08:25:46 AM »
Looks good ;)

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Passengers evaluation icon on station information window
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2019, 08:51:52 AM »
I am on a train now so can only reply briefly, but I note that it is not correct that the journeys of "unhappy" passengers succeed: they are either turned away from the station because it us too full or wait so long for a service that they give up.

Offline Vladki cz

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Re: Passengers evaluation icon on station information window
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2019, 09:06:05 AM »
Just yesterday I was thinking about unhappy / no route / too slow. Overcrowded stop is clear. But how about waiting time? Does it mean only waiting at this stop? Shouldn't it fall under too slow? And even if I see lot of too slow, it might mean that the problem is somewhere further on their route.

How about one more category "too expensive"? Showing passengers that would travel if there would be lower class transportation available?

Offline Ranran jp

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Re: Passengers evaluation icon on station information window
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2019, 10:34:18 AM »
I might have interpreted "left" in the wrong direction... (´・ω・`)
Passengers came to the station, but were they angry and stopped departing?
If so, I think that Unhappy is not suitable and I can't think of any suitable words.
Is it advisable to separate it into "overcrowding" and "excessive waiting time"?
Also "/" Needs to be returned to ",".

By placing text as a symbol, we can afford space, so I think that we could afford to add new items.
It is a good thing if it can clarify the issue that is occurring, but I do not know how much work it is.
Is it easy to add a distinction between "overcrowding" and "excessive waiting time"?



EDIT: Now I check Unhappy case.

Unhappy case:
1simhalt.ccwait so longwaiting too long at the station
2simworld.ccovercrowdinggive up departure because of station crowding
3simworld.ccovercrowdingreturn station was crowding
4simvehicle.ccovercrowdingThe vehicle on board was overcrowding
station was overcrowded
Is this all? Is my understanding correct?

EDIT2: Fix case 4 to station overcrowded
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 11:59:59 PM by Ranran »

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Passengers evaluation icon on station information window
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2019, 08:30:30 PM »
Thank you for your thoughts on this. I am a little confused by case 4, as passengers do not leave and register as unhappy merely because a particular convoy is overcrowded. Can I check to which line in simvehicle.cc to which you are referring?

There may well be much sense in separating case 1 from cases 2-4, as this is different in nature. The symbol for waiting too long might be a clock face whereas the symbol for overcrowding might be a symbolic representation of three people in close proximity. Separating these would require adding a graph and a dataset for the new distinct type, which would require altering the saved game format. I presume that you know how to do this? Other than that, it should not be too difficult in principle to do this.

I should be grateful for others' views on this separation.

Adding a display for "too expensive", by contrast, would be much more difficult, and would also greatly increase computational load, as passengers would have to search not only for routes that they can afford but also for routes which they cannot afford to check whether there being no routes that they can afford is because there are no routes at all or because there are routes but only ones that they cannot afford. I do not think that this would be sensible.

Offline Vladki cz

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Re: Passengers evaluation icon on station information window
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2019, 09:33:28 PM »
So at the moment "too expensive" is not distinguishable from "no route". So the exact wording would be "no route in given class".

For cases 1 and 4, is there a way to distinguish between waiting too long because the interval is long - which is predictable, and should be accounted for when estimating the travel time - and waiting too long because all vehicles are overcrowded?

Does #3 really matter? You cannot get off on overcrowded station?

Offline mammothim2906 england

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[Idea for James] Passengers evaluation icon on station information window
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2019, 09:43:39 PM »
That is such an outstanding feature that I personally would like to be seen incorporated into the main game.  :)

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Passengers evaluation icon on station information window
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2019, 11:20:05 PM »
So at the moment "too expensive" is not distinguishable from "no route". So the exact wording would be "no route in given class".

For cases 1 and 4, is there a way to distinguish between waiting too long because the interval is long - which is predictable, and should be accounted for when estimating the travel time - and waiting too long because all vehicles are overcrowded?

Does #3 really matter? You cannot get off on overcrowded station?

Yes - in the first case, the passengers are not currently recorded as "unhappy" at all, but as "too slow", as the journey time takes into account the waiting time. Only in the second case are passengers currently registered as "unhappy" (case 1 in the table).

As to overcrowded stations - the point is not that the passengers cannot get off the trains/buses/etc., but that they cannot get into the station to begin their journeys.

In relation to labelling "no route", "no route in a given class" might be more correct in the circumstances.

Offline Ranran jp

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Re: Passengers evaluation icon on station information window
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2019, 11:55:53 PM »
I am a little confused by case 4, as passengers do not leave and register as unhappy merely because a particular convoy is overcrowded. Can I check to which line in simvehicle.cc to which you are referring?
Code: [Select]
// The avoid_overcrowding setting is activated
// Halt overcrowded - discard passengers, and collect no revenue.
// Experimetal 7.2 - also calculate a refund.

// Add passengers to unhappy (due to overcrowding) passengers.
halt->add_pax_unhappy(tmp.menge);
Sorry, that was my misunderstanding. It seems also the station is too crowded at simvehicle.cc line 905-934.  :-[

I presume that you know how to do this? Other than that, it should not be too difficult in principle to do this.
Probably I can do it. I will try if separation is preferred.

The symbol for waiting too long might be a clock face whereas the symbol for overcrowding might be a symbolic representation of three people in close proximity.

This is still not in-game image but how's this?
« Last Edit: January 13, 2019, 03:27:28 AM by Ranran »

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Passengers evaluation icon on station information window
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2019, 11:31:52 AM »
Those symbols look good to me - thank you for that. You will need to colour co-ordinate them with the graphs, of course, but no doubt you are aware of that.

As for incrementing the saved game version, you need to increment EX_SAVE_MINOR in simversion.h and then load/save the new values only if file->get_extended_revision() >= [the new incremented number] OR file->get_extended_version() >= [one greater than the current major version number].

Does this make sense?

Also, what are others' views on (1) the separation in principle; and (2) the new symbols?

Offline Ranran jp

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Re: Passengers evaluation icon on station information window
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2019, 03:47:41 PM »
Here is the new in-game screenshot.


Please tell me the words that are appropriate for the new two separated labels.
Also I would appreciate if you could tell me impressions about the icon and color of the chart.
The color of "Convoys" gave the same color as "Convoys" of City list chart as a result of giving priority to "Too waiting".

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Passengers evaluation icon on station information window
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2019, 09:54:50 PM »
Thank you for this. I suggest "Turned away" and "Gave up waiting" instead of "Overcrowding" and "Too waiting" respectively.

The tooltip texts will also need modifying to "The number of passengers who have been turned away from this stop because it is overcrowded" and "The number of passengers who had to wait so long that they gave up" respectively.

Offline Ranran jp

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Re: Passengers evaluation icon on station information window
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2019, 04:22:04 AM »
I think that it may be difficult for player to understand that "Gave up waiting" occurs at other stations(not a departing station).

EDIT:
Thank you for text advise.

- I updated my Github branch.
- Symbol files attached to post # 1 has been updated.

EDIT2:
Additional notes:
I incremented EX_VERSION_MINOR.
This is aimed to compare whether display of symbols and whether pakset has symbols or not. (Explicit that the Simutrans-Extended.exe has display capability of symbol.)
Is it OK?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 04:32:15 PM by Ranran »

Offline Ranran jp

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Passengers evaluation ratio indicator
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2019, 02:46:59 PM »
Now Ranran challenges even more combos.
Simutrans's GUI has many indicators. Speed, distance, capacity etc.
The station information window has a subtle margin. So I came up with put a indicator here. :lightbulb:

I prepared some sample images.  Please check ;)

#1


#2


#3


#4


Unlike the above indicators, this displays percentage distribution.
If only the flattened banana is visible, that is a proof that you are a good president. It becomes gray when there is no data.

#1 - Just added an indicator below.
#2 - In order to make it more meaningful, I have added the total number of generated together.
But this is not enough space on the right side. It will cause problems at stations with millions of passengers.
So #3 and #4 moved the total number next to the indicator.
I also tested the appearance when the indicator height was made thick.

Please let me know what you guys think.

Thank you.  (´・ω・`)らんらん♪

Offline Ves

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Re: Passengers evaluation icon on station information window
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2019, 03:05:00 PM »
I like the approach, and I understand the difficulties.
What if you write out the total amount of passengers, and then split it up into percentages? Using your example #2 (which I think I like the best. #4 makes the filled bar smaller and smaller the more passengers there are, #3 does that as well, only now it is unclear what the number means and #1 doesnt tell me how much passengers are the total), it would spell out 754 (76% :) , 9% (crowded icon) etc). You would only have to make sure that the percentages add up tp 100, and not more or less due to rounding errors.
That would save you alot of space for when there are alot of passengers.

Offline wlindley

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Re: Passengers evaluation icon on station information window
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2019, 07:34:55 PM »
Looking great!

After some weeks of squinting, I am guessing the rightmost yellow "blob" icon is a snail? 

Offline Spenk009

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Re: Passengers evaluation icon on station information window
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2019, 12:04:27 PM »
This is a great addition to help players understand their network. Are there tooltips for each entry (icon + value)? I agree entirely with Ves on which is best.

Can we add a poll to the topic if anyone has another opinion?

 

Offline Ranran jp

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Re: Passengers evaluation icon on station information window
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2019, 02:03:26 AM »
Thank you for telling me your opinions. Those were very helpful for me. :)

What if you write out the total amount of passengers

I thought it was a good idea to display it in percentage.
However, in this case as well, there is not enough space because "%" characters increase.

yellow "blob" icon is a snail? 
Yes. Is it unclear? Icon size is just 10 px square, so it's quite difficult.
I hope the player can understand once by assisting with tooltip help.

Are there tooltips for each entry (icon + value)?
Yes, you move the cursor around the icon, then the tooltip is displayed.


Another idea is to separate the line with "Passengers:".



In this case it may seem somewhat unnatural with consistency with Storage capacity display.

Offline mammothim2906 england

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[Q] Passengers evaluation icon on station information window
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2019, 10:48:54 AM »
When will this all be incorporated into the main game?

Offline Ves

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Re: Passengers evaluation icon on station information window
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2019, 11:54:51 AM »

I thought it was a good idea to display it in percentage.
However, in this case as well, there is not enough space because "%" characters increase.
Oh, you are right, it gets very long indeed!
I would think it is always best to have the total amount of passengers immediately after the description "Passengers:" since you otherwise could get confused about what that number is all about.

So what if you take this one:

and move the passenger count one line up (next to "Passengers:"), and then keep the percentages and the filled bar on the lower line, but make it so that the first percentage, as well as the left end of the filled bar, is directly below the passenger count? I believe that would make it look like one unit and the player would hopefully automatically group that together to be all about passengers.

Offline Ranran jp

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Re: Passengers evaluation icon on station information window
« Reply #24 on: Yesterday at 02:41:39 PM »
Thank you for your opinion. Now I have made some improvements.



Changes:

- Separated the record about mail.
Previously, mail enabled stops counted the no route of mails together. Therefore there was a issue that mail stops always display red indicator or adding a lot of no route (mail tends to be no route so as not to look for alternate routes) when both passenger and mail are enabled, so it needed to be fixed.
However, I thought that the record of mail was also useful information, so I separated it and made a new item.

These are only two of delivery success and no route.
If we need discussion on mail statistics, I think that it is better to do with another thread.



- Delivery success count of mail and no route added to the chart.
Proofreading on labels and help texts will be a great help.
Code: [Select]
mail_delivered
The number of mails which have delivered successfully from this stop
mail_no_route
The number of mails which could not find a route to their destination

Passenger service is not provided
This stop has no user
Mail service is not provided
This stop does not have mail user


- I added two special icons of mail delivery success and no route.
If pakset do not have these two, "Happy" and "No Route" of passengers will be displayed instead.


- Passengers/Mail evaluation display will be hidden if those services are invalid.




- Display the possibility of issue instead of symbols when there is no record
(1) There is no waiting passenger/mail and the arrival of convoy has not been past 2 months.


(2) There is no waiting passenger/mail and there have been no users in the last 2 months.





I would like to get your feedback on these. Thank you. (´・ω・`)らんらん♪

Offline wlindley

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Re: Passengers evaluation icon on station information window
« Reply #25 on: Yesterday at 04:05:29 PM »
"Mail" is an uncountable or mass noun; you have "one piece of mail, two pieces of mail" and not "one mail, two mails" -- just like "software."  And the mail service has customers, not users. Thus the strings ought to be more like:

Code: [Select]
The amount of mail successfully delivered from this stop
The amount of mail which could not find a route to its destination
Mail service is not provided
This stop does not have mail customers

Offline Ves

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Re: Passengers evaluation icon on station information window
« Reply #26 on: Yesterday at 05:27:49 PM »
I think it looks much better like that!
There is only one thing that I find look a little strange, and that is the placement of "mail" so much too far to the left of the colon.
Either I think the entire mail entry needs to follow up directly after "Mail:", or even better I think: The "Mail:" needs to be moved much right so the colons are benieth each other. Be aware, of corse, that in other languages, mail might be a longer word than passengers, so you would need to find out which one is longer before determining where the colon should be placed. Am I making sence?

I like the idea of greying out the mail and passenger entries, however I think caution must be given to what is being described:
If I read "passenger service not provided" I assume that is because there actually is no passengerlines or -convoys that are scheduled to stop at that stop. If, however, there where a problem somewhere that hinders my convoys to serve the stop and the two months had passed, I would much rather have it written out "passenger service interrupted" or "passenger service down since 2 months" or something similar that states that there is a problem.

----

Another point that I have been thinking about, but which would require some work, is that everywhere else in the game, the color yellow has been associated with some kind of attention to problems of some sort. However the color green is the color that is associated with "everything is fine".
I know that this makes it a bit difficult for this situation, since a smiley normally is yellow and you made the graph and the color in the filled bar yellow to match that. What I wonder is what do you think, and ultimately, how it would look like if you either added a green hint on the smiley, or made the smiley green, and all associated yellow colors green?