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Author Topic: Drop requirement for station extensions to be buildt next to stations  (Read 466 times)

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Online Leartin

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Station Extension Buildings require an actual station next to them in order to be placed.

...but why?

It is possible to build an extension building next to a bus stop and then delete the bus stop, so clearly Simutrans can deal with stations composed solely of station buildings.
Especially with the introduction of the station-merging-tool, it seems a bit outdated. After all, if you want to extend your storage space across the street, you'd still have to place a temporary station on that street first - exactly the kind of "trick" the merging tool should have rendered obsolete.

Two options:
First, just drop the requirement. If there is no station in place, build the extension as it's own station, since clearly they can exist.
Second, require a station within the merge tool radius and place as an extension to that station. Basically as if the extension was placed and then merged, including any additional costs. I think extensions already search for stations nearby to rotate properly, but there needs to be a hard limit since the merge radius could be too high for fluid performance.

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall

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Re: Drop requirement for station extensions to be buildt next to stations
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2020, 03:30:26 AM »
I think this would confuse new players, but perhaps it's similar to not showing electric trains in a depot that's not electrified - darned if you do, darned if you don't.

That being said, I'd personally be 100% fine if they could be placed separately from a station. :shrug:

Online Leartin

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Re: Drop requirement for station extensions to be buildt next to stations
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2020, 05:14:23 AM »
It could confuse new players if they don't understand that each vehicle needs to stop on a platform (except boats). But then the same confusion could happen for any transfer station (eg  train to bus). I'm not sure the message you get when you try to place a station extension helps much in this regard, since it pretty much assumes the player is able to distinguish between platforms and extensions, both called stations.

For new players, it would likely be better if the station could be buildt, but in it's dialog where you would see connections/waiting goods&pax instead show that this station can't be connected since it has no platform.

Offline Ters

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Re: Drop requirement for station extensions to be buildt next to stations
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2020, 07:01:48 AM »
My main concern, apart from players realizing even less that these are only extensions, not stations in their own right, is that I may end up accidentally building new stations, instead of extending the one I intended. Sure, accidentally clicking on the wrong tile when adding more platforms causes the same problem, but I don't need more paths to that problem.

I don't have much problems with having to build extensions away from the station. It is usually the platforms that need to be disjoint. First, there are really only one extension that is absolutely necessary for me, and that is the post office. There is always room for that, although the placement may look a bit unrealistic if I'm too reluctant to demolish buildings. (Well, there is, or was, also the problem with factories surrounded by fields deeper that the catchment area, but that is a fault in how catchment works, in my opinion.) Most other extensions also look silly when not next to the platform. Although I guess some or all this is pak set dependent.

Offline HyperSim

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Re: Drop requirement for station extensions to be buildt next to stations
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2020, 10:16:32 AM »
I developed the Merge tool because it was annoying to me to extend station over a street or something. (extending station over street is often occur during game play!)
I agree with what Leartin-san says.  It's not smart that station extention is ristricted only nearby platform.
Two options which Leartin-san suggested sounds nice to solve the problem.

However, I'm afraid this feature would confuse player.
The former (allow to build extention alone) option will allow players to build station that is not connected any stops.
Player may build station building without any place to stop vehicles without noticing.
"There's a station tag on the screen but cannot use? Why?"  He will spend a lot of time to figure out.
Some of extention buildings are shown in the same menu with platforms, so I don't think it will never happen.
That is very dangerous, isn't it?

The latter one (allow to build in certain distance) is not also good.
For example, a player are extending station in the middle of city and there are some bus stops around.
He wants to extend bus stop A, but there's another bus stop B in the same distance and he extends bus stop B not bus stop A.
He will confuse because the game is not working what he intend to do.
(see example.png attached)

So, the two options Leartin-san suggests are not good without modifying.
(e.g. first select the station you want to extend then drag to the place to build)

Offline prissi

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Re: Drop requirement for station extensions to be buildt next to stations
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2020, 01:04:29 PM »
HyperSim voiced almost all of my concerns too. Above that, most extensions are not needed for gameplay (besides the infamous bare platform of pak128, grief of many new players), so most players use them rarely, at least judging from the savegames I collected over the years.

Offline 1993matias

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Re: Drop requirement for station extensions to be buildt next to stations
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2020, 03:38:02 PM »
Would it be possible to have a pop-up appear when you build the extension too far away from any platform (i.e. creating a new station), informing the player that the stop can't be used without a suitable platform? And the possibility to disable it for future instances?

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall

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Re: Drop requirement for station extensions to be buildt next to stations
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2020, 03:11:38 AM »
I don't think popups would be a good answer.

Online Vladki

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Re: Drop requirement for station extensions to be buildt next to stations
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2020, 04:39:54 PM »
Hmm, how about creating new station, but putting some warning in the info dialog, and/or changing the color of the horizontal bar (which is usually green/yellow/orange/red) to something else to indicate there is some problem.
E.g. in extended when airports are required to have a control tower, this horizontal bar is purple if the airport does not have the tower.