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Author Topic: Horse barges  (Read 1033 times)

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Offline Y5mpF3

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Horse barges
« on: March 18, 2019, 08:21:29 AM »
Our pal James Petts has done a great job. Unfortunately he has been sometimes a little bit sloppy.
For example, he has forgotten to register the horse barges in the horses. Something that would be easy to correct. I did it. But my corrected horses do not show up in the game. Of course I have looked for a solution here but found none.
James Petts, who is active here, says he is different from the one who did such a great job for Simutrans. Which is why he is not responsible for the mistakes and does not correct them. It's an impudence to call himself that.

Why my corrected horses do not show up in the game?

Online jamespetts gb

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Re: Horse barges
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2019, 10:57:34 AM »
You are posting about the Standard version of the pakset. This version is no longer maintained as its maintainers retired. I have never maintained this version of the pakset.

I maintain the Extended version of the pakset. The horse barges have long been correct in that version.

Offline Leartin at

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Re: Horse barges
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2019, 12:38:25 PM »
Sorry, my crystal ball is in the wash, so it seems you'd need to show what you did if you want anyone to tell you what you did wrong.

In the meantime, get an idea of your position: All contributions to this game are provided "as is" with no guarantee. Nobody here get's paid. If something doesn't work, you are free to tell "us", and maybe someone will look at it and fix it, but nobody has an obligation to do anything - that's why most of the stuff is open source by now, so anyone can fix the mistakes of others. So even if James was responsible for this particular issue (he is not, that would be a different James), he wouldn't have to do anything unless he wants to.
Unless you can do it yourself, you are dependent on the goodwill of others, and why would anyone help you if you behave like a priviledged prick?

My suggestion for you: Make a screenshot of what Makeobj tells you when you try to pak your file, bundle that with your edited file and an apology to James, and I'm certain this community is nice enough to help you.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 01:07:17 PM by Leartin »

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Horse barges
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2019, 05:10:02 PM »
It’s been many years since some people started contributing to Simutrans and often they will be in a different place in their lives now so won’t have the same amount of time to dedicate to coding. For Simutrans to continue to be developed will need new people to get involved who are willing to contribute their efforts. Simutrans is open source so have a look aro7nd see if you are able to identify issues and suggest how these can get fixed through patches.

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall us

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Re: Horse barges
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2019, 06:13:52 PM »
It's an impudence to call himself that.

Let me be extremely clear here. Your behaviour is unacceptable, and if you do not immediately change, you will be banned from this community. You will immediately cease making attacks on anyone here.

As others pointed out, everyone here is a volunteer. If you do not like the way things are, then feel free to either try and make changes in ways that are compatible with this established community, or leave.

I am aware of personal messages that you have sent that are unacceptable, and I cannot in strong enough terms convey to you that you will not be allowed to continue this abusive behaviour.

You will not call anyone sloppy. You will not make any personal attacks on anyone, or I will ban you from this forum.

As far as your last question goes, there are many reasons that a submitted correction or change might not be incorporated. This happens all the time from long-time contributors whose patches may not be incorporated for any number of reasons, including the simple fact that everyone else is also a volunteer. So if you can't handle that, that's how things work.

You are free to make suggestions. You are free to offer corrections and enhancements and the like. The best way is to post publicly so they can be discussed, and perhaps included. But you must be polite and respectful and treat everyone else as a human. Nobody owes you anything in the slightest.

If you cannot adjust your behaviour, you will lose access to this forum. If I get one more report of an impolite personal message, I will remove your ability to send them.

Offline IgorEliezer br

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Re: Horse barges
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2019, 06:21:06 PM »
Y5mpF3,

I'm assuming that you don't know how the forum and the community work. Everyone here participates in the project as a hobby discussing or creating content for the game. It's a non-paid, voluntary work. We don't follow schedules and usually "quality standards" are not enforced. We improve and fix the game according free time availability, willingness, personal taste and consensus. People help each other; the project rely a lot on teamwork and mutual respect.

That said, If you are having issues with the game, please post the details of the issue on the forum so *we* can have a look into the issue. (I recommend reading: How to post a bug report and How to post a help request)

Targeting a single person of the development to get something fixed shows you don't understand how our community works. It is also inappropriate since you expose and judge a member of ours. Focus on the issue, not on the person.

Please follow the our advice.

Offline Y5mpF3

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Re: Horse barges
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2019, 07:44:52 AM »
Of course I will sent corrected dats.
--
Mod Note (kierongreen):
Consider yourself fortunate that I saw your other post before another Moderator. I appreciate that English might not be your first language but please be respectful to both this community as a whole as well as the individuals that it is made up of.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 08:31:30 AM by kierongreen »

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Horse barges
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2019, 08:39:09 AM »
Y5mpF3 - thank you for posting those dats. Those appear to be copied across directly from pak128 Exp? I cannot see what change they would make - and additionally they use features which might not work correctly in Standard and reference a soundfile which isn't present either I think.

Additionally I've had time to load Simutrans and check your bug report and can't see the issue that you are referring to. Horses show up in the Shipyard under the 'Ships' tab with Bulk Goods Barges that are able to be pulled by them under the 'Barges' tab. Could you clarify what the issue is please?

Offline Y5mpF3

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Re: Horse barges
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2019, 08:57:31 AM »
Dear kierongreen,
Thank you for your good will!!
But I wrote: It's about the horse barges which must be registered at the boat horses. I did it.
I think non-existent parameters are being simply ignored. But I have already deleted they once, and it did not work too.

Offline Y5mpF3

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Re: Horse barges
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2019, 09:07:04 AM »
I have to apologize. Leartin has informed me that the great James who did such a great job with small mistakes is really not James Petts. It was a James Hood.

Offline Leartin at

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Re: Horse barges
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2019, 09:59:59 AM »
I think the issue is related to another object called "horse barge" - https://github.com/aburch/simutrans-pak128.britain/blob/master/boats/horse-barge.dat

To quote:
Code: [Select]
Constraint[Prev][0]=BoatHorsesSingle
Constraint[Prev][1]=BoatHorsesDouble

The horse-barges want boat-horses in front, but the boat-horses deny that. The bugfix would be to add all the horse-barges in both boat-horses like this:

Code: [Select]
Constraint[Next][n+1]=HorseBargeBulk
Constraint[Next][n+2]=HorseBargeLong
Constraint[Next][n+3]=HorseBargePiece
...
where n is the highest constraint-next-index already in the dat. (no number can be used twice, no number can be missing, they need to be in order)

In the posted version, this was fixed - but they would likely abort the paking process due to Extended-Only-Code. Or if they do result in a working pak file, they probably were not put in the correct folders to overwrite the original horse barge at testing.

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Horse barges
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2019, 12:25:42 PM »
Thanks both will look into fixing when I get home.

Offline Y5mpF3

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Re: Horse barges
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2019, 05:45:28 AM »
[EN] Very well then! Of course, a pak was created, and of course I put it in the right directory. Of course, I renamed the horses to avoid conflicts. And as I said, I tried without the ex-parameters. The versions that are here, I have written especially for here. For myself, I rewrote the dat according to the information I could find here. Of course, I have tried several versions.

[DE] Also wirklich! Natürlich wurde eine Pak erstellt, und natürlich habe ich  die ins richtige Verzeichnis gestellt. Natürlich habe ich die Pferdchen umbenannt, um Konflikte zu vermeiden. Und wie gesagt, ich habe es auch ohne die ex-Parameter versucht. Die Versionen, die hier stehen habe ich eigens für hier geschrieben. Für mich selbst habe ich die dat nach den Informationen, die ich so finden konnte, neu geschrieben. Ausprobiert habe ich natürlich mehrere Versionen.

« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 12:57:57 AM by Isaac.Eiland-Hall »

Offline Spenk009

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Re: Horse barges
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2019, 09:14:10 AM »
I've come across the same issue. You will find that you need to add/register the different pak vehicles in /text/en.tab. It's a file that connects the internal name of any object and its pretty name displayed in the game.

Offline Y5mpF3

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Re: Horse barges
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2019, 09:29:13 AM »
Thank you! But this is not the issue. The new pak set has single paks. This allows to replace original paks with modified ones.

Offline Y5mpF3

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Re: Horse barges
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2019, 09:32:24 AM »
Moreover, what I make works perfectly with buildings.

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Horse barges
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2019, 10:19:20 AM »
That should be issue fixed in svn commit 1998 many thanks all.

Offline makie

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Re: Horse barges
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2019, 10:26:26 AM »
Also wirklich! Natürlich wurde ......

[EN] This sound disturbs me. :-(
As a German native speaker that's not OK
I keep my distance from people who act like that. Also professional.

[DE] Mich stört dieser Ton.  :-(
Als deutscher Muttersprachler ist das so nicht OK
Ich halte Abstand von Leuten die so auftreten. Auch beruflich.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 12:59:02 AM by Isaac.Eiland-Hall »

Offline Leartin at

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Re: Horse barges
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2019, 10:41:04 AM »
Spenk, the language files are only for display, it makes sense to add those for addons, but it's not required to work.


[EN] Y5mpF3, I don't think you are an idiot, but quite often the mistake is a silly one, so we should rule some of them out:
 - when you changed the objects name, did you also change the next/prev references? Otherwise, it wouldn't work anyway (though they should still be displayed)
 - have you tried to pak an already existing object? Eg. if you delete the original boat-horses, and pak the file as it is in the repository, do you get them back? - You see, it could be the issue is not with your dat file, but with your paking. Eg. if you'd forget to tell makeobj to pak as "pak128", it would use 64-sized graphics, which would seemingly pak correctly, but if there is no graphic in south direction, the object can not be displayed in the depot. So checking if paking anything works would be a good first step at troubleshooting.
 - did you restart the game to test? (I know, silly, but you never know...)

[DE] Nicht, dass ich dich für einen Idioten halte, aber häufig sinds bei sowas ganz dämliche Fehler, also sollten wir ein paar ausschließen:
 - wenn du den Objektnamen änderst, denkst du daran, auch die Referenzen für next/prev zu ändern? Sonst funktioniert dein neues Objekt ohnehin nicht (sollte aber trotzdem im Spiel angezeigt werden)
 - hast du versucht, ein bereits bestehendes Objekt zu packen? Also zB. die originalen boat-horses aus dem Pakset zu löschen und dann nur die Datei aus dem Repository zu packen, wie sie ist. - Es kann ja sein, dass deine Dat eigentlich komplett richtig ist, aber beim Packen ein Fehler passiert. zB. könntest du vergessen, makeobj zu sagen, dass es als pak128 packen soll, und es verwendet 64pixel-Raster. Das würde fehlerfrei packen, aber wenn die Südrichtung eine leere Grafik hat, wird im Depot nichts angezeigt. Indem du testest, ob packen funktioniert, kann man solche Fehler ausschließen.
- ganz blöd: Hast du das Spiel neu gestartet?



I think kierongreen will take care of the boats for the pakset now anyways, but I think it's important to see why it didn't work for you.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 12:59:29 AM by Isaac.Eiland-Hall »

Offline Y5mpF3

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Re: Horse barges
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2019, 11:12:05 AM »
[EN] All good ideas! Often there are little stupid mistakes. But I've already had the same ideas. And as I said, my buildings work great.
I changed the makeobj version. I've compared every detail a few times with what I've been able to find information about. I have used the original dat and self-written. It just does not help anything.

[DE] Für    Leartin:
Alles gute Ideen!  Es sind ja oft kleine dumme Fehler. Aber auf Deine Ideen bin ich auch schon gekommen. Und wie gesagt, meine Gebäude funktionieren hervorragend. Ich habe die makeobj-Version ausgetauscht. Ich habe jedes Detail einige Male mit dem verglichen, was ich dazu an Informationen finden konnte. Ich habe die Original-Dat verwendet und selbstgeschriebene. Es nützt einfach nichts irgendetwas.

« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 12:59:53 AM by Isaac.Eiland-Hall »

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Horse barges
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2019, 11:27:53 AM »
Y7mpF3 - if you update from sourceforge then you should get new dats which should fix issue if you then compile it. In terms of updating the pre-built version of pakset don't know if there's nightly versions of that still.

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall us

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Re: Horse barges
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2019, 01:03:06 AM »
Please, everyone, a reminder about the forum rules:

1. Mark language sections of your post using brackets like [EN] and [DE]
2. The board's language goes first
3. Provide board-language translations of any text in another language. Please feel free to use Google Translate or another service.

The reasons for these:

1. If you follow these procedures, moderators can be more sure that you are providing translations of your message, not new material. I have had to translate some things and post them here because some have not done so.

2. This is not "ENGLISH FIRST!!!!", this is the board's language first. In other language boards, THAT language must be first. We are multilingual here, so it makes sense to provide the board's language first.

3. Marking the sections again helps assure moderators that you are following the rules so we do not need to take the time to copy your text to a translator to check up on every message to make sure you are providing translations properly.

Please, this is not hard to do. But I have had to post this plea to follow the rules multiple times now.

Offline Y5mpF3

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Re: Horse barges
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2019, 07:26:34 AM »
To  Isaac.Eiland-Hall:
Thank you! I want to be understood. Do you really want to recommend Google Translate? This is more like a brainstorming than a translator.

To kierongreen:#
Thank you too! My dat is probably not the problem. It is nice that the problem addressed here has been resolved. But my compilation does not work? It works perfectly with buildings. I have tried several variants of makeobj.

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall us

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Re: Horse barges
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2019, 11:09:20 AM »
Do you really want to recommend Google Translate?

By all means, feel free to use something better if you wish. The point is that a board-language translation must be provided, per the rules. Google Translate is easy, accessible, and a fine enough minimum.

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Horse barges
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2019, 02:00:14 PM »
Thank you too! My dat is probably not the problem. It is nice that the problem addressed here has been resolved. But my compilation does not work? It works perfectly with buildings. I have tried several variants of makeobj.
Not sure what steps you are taking during compiling, I’m on a Linux system, start from a checkout from the SVN and compile the whole pakset using make rather than individual files within it. Might be helpful to know what your setup looks like as may be down to directory structures or where source images are located for example.

Offline Y5mpF3

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Re: Horse barges
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2019, 02:25:28 PM »
Thank you so very much! I have adjusted the paths and made a mistake.