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Offline Václav

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[WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« on: July 08, 2019, 09:50:18 PM »
I know that when I published some projects under construction, I did not finished them for some reasons. But I hope that this project will not be one of them.

I had some minor problems with historic version of tramway tunnel. So I needed to do something else for short time to find solution of that problem. And toroid fusion plant is result of that pause.

I decided to create only graphics and let somebody else to write dat. At least because I did not prepared any powerplant before. And also because I don't know what all was changed in dat file at time when I did not pay attention to Simutrans.

In attachment you can see matrix of outer surface of toroid - with base to see its size. Image is in target size for pak96.comic. But after needed changes it probably would be usable also in pak192.comic.

I wanted to keep shape of toroid also for outer surface, even if it is not needed. I created it first because it is part much harder to paint than headquarters - mostly if it will be very simply shaped, to make it futuristic.

Questions for discussion:
  • Start year
  • Primary/secondary producer of electricity
  • Location
  • Output

My answers/opinion:
  • 2025 or later
  • Primary - it means that it does not need any supplies. Because this powerplant has to run continuously and balancing of consumption of supplies for continuous running (with very great output) would be very hard.
  • Shores - in case of primary. Anywhere - in case of secondary.
  • :question: - really I am not sure what number would reflect planned enormous output

Offline An_dz

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2019, 02:25:21 PM »
1. 2025+
2. It looks like it will be a nuclear fusion plant (using magnetic method), and I don't think it needs any meaningful quantities of material to power up and generate lots of energy. So primary makes sense.
3. For the same reasons above I don't see the need for shore.
4. I have not played with electricity much so I have to idea.

Offline Václav

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2019, 05:01:03 PM »
2. It looks like it will be a nuclear fusion plant (using magnetic method), and I don't think it needs any meaningful quantities of material to power up and generate lots of energy. So primary makes sense.
3. For the same reasons above I don't see the need for shore.
2. Yes, it is TOKAMAK
3. In case of shore (for primary electricity source), I wanted to reflect needed resources (D, Li in the first generation, only D in the second generation). And D (deuterium) is extracted from heavy water (D20) produced by various ways (mostly electrolysis - but some latest researches showed new possible ways) of (mostly sea) water.
4. I loaded one game to see what is electricity consumption. And I saw: between 2400 and 2600 MW - in year 2000. And production was only 1800 MW (by 2 nuclear powerplants and 6 coal powerplants). So, production would have to be between 1000 and 2000 MW (in accordance with probability of appearance) if it is possible.

Minor balancing notice:

I think that nuclear powerplant could get:
- greater ouput (or)
- lower consumption of nuclear fuel

Some reactors have three years renewing cyclus, some modern even five years cyclus. Also I would dismiss uranium-238 (as waste of production of enriched uranium) from chain and let whole chain a bit simplier. There are chains that have complexity in their base. And some other (with reasonable complexity) still may be added.

Offline Leartin at

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2019, 05:17:39 PM »
I loaded one game to see what is electricity consumption. And I saw: between 2400 and 2600 MW - in year 2000. And production was only 1800 MW (by 2 nuclear powerplants and 6 coal powerplants). So, production would have to be between 1000 and 2000 MW (in accordance with probability of appearance) if it is possible.

Power Plants are special. There is a setting called "electric_promille" which sets the relation between power-producers and power required on the map (or something similar). Hence you only need to set spawning chance in relation to other power plants, not in relation to all end consumers.

Offline Václav

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2019, 04:25:48 PM »
And here is the second preview of toroid fusion plant. Now I am going to create headquarters in rest three rotations. Own reactor and its fence around is the same in all four rotations - but however, due to total size 4*5, it is not in the center of area.

Originally I wanted to create futuristic headquarters, but something went wrong... And also, we are getting near to year 2025 that was discussed for start of this power plant and still, nothing futuristic is not built for such purposes.

Any hints for changes are invited and post-releasing changes are allowed.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 04:55:00 PM by Václav »

Offline An_dz

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2019, 11:55:16 PM »
Make the shadowing soft, with a gradient.
Remove the fence around the toroid or make it the only wall around it.
Add some texturing to the building and to the wall. If you want something a little more "modern" looking go with a big glassed block.

Offline Leartin at

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2019, 04:24:27 AM »
A different option to a gradient (indicating a smooth surface) would be using the original construction grid and shade the cells (indicating large flat panels). While doing so, you can make sure to have brighter cells to the south side, since it's currently close to pillow shading.

Offline Václav

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2019, 06:44:31 AM »
Make the shadowing soft, with a gradient.
Yes, shadowing around will be done. But making it soft will be in your hands, lords.

Quote
Remove the fence around the toroid or make it the only wall around it.
Will be done.

Quote
Add some texturing to the building and to the wall.
I am going to try to find any texture.

Quote
If you want something a little more "modern" looking go with a big glassed block.
May it be that upper floors (with fence) may get something like that - to break long wall. And also, if I was sure (but I am not) with result, I would like to make fence transparent with using of 24bit transparency instead current form.

A different option to a gradient (indicating a smooth surface) would be using the original construction grid and shade the cells (indicating large flat panels). While doing so, you can make sure to have brighter cells to the south side, since it's currently close to pillow shading.
I am not sure if I understand correctly - to shade plates, and make their borders highlighted (stronger), maybe with own borderlines. Probably, it can be done - but this highliting would need own shading.

Offline An_dz

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2019, 10:22:34 PM »
I am not sure if I understand correctly - to shade plates, and make their borders highlighted (stronger), maybe with own borderlines. Probably, it can be done - but this highliting would need own shading.
Leartin is talking about doing the same as was done for the interior of the toroid. I guess it would look nice too, and quite modern looking.

Offline Václav

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2019, 09:50:08 AM »
Fence got texture in a similar colours as were originally used. Any shade of grey (even if it could give a sense in its special way) would not be good idea for grey is massively used on reactor. Rods part was deleted.
Reactor was reshaded and plates got highlighting of borders. Now, shading is still not perfect, but I think that with that decorative cage it is better because some imperfections (originally visibl on plates connections) are not visible. However, I am not sure with colour of that decorative cage (excepting one - it cannot be in any shade of grey).

Offline An_dz

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2019, 03:51:20 PM »
The wall as a whole is very nice now. As for the colour of the toroid frame try the same brown used on the wall, or even strong black. I'm guessing that using the same colour as the wall will give more harmony to the whole thing.

Offline Václav

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2019, 08:36:33 PM »
Reactor in new colours. In some parts is visible that decorative cage has own border lines. And also with much lighter decorative cage.

Offline An_dz

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2019, 12:44:47 AM »
Both look great, I guess the choice will need to be left for when the rest of the building is drawn.

Offline Václav

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2019, 12:29:58 PM »
For headquarters I have got idea for new face.
  • new size will take 2*4 instead 1*4 (and general size of whole factory will be 6*4 instead only 5*4)
  • shape will be very similar
  • upper two floors (that did not take all area of HQ) are deleted
  • the first floor (above dark part) got double height
  • the second floor got staircase to roof
  • roof got green texture to imitate grass and will be equipped by decorative transparent coverage
Decorative roof is partially inspired by buildings I loved in SC2000 - arcologies

However, it will be hard to keep roof in all four rotations the same ... and so they may differ. And at this time I don't know how much.

Offline Václav

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2019, 08:07:47 PM »
Headquarters of toroid fusion plant in new face.

Parts of roof space (if something would not be clear what it is  ;D):
  • center: staircase
  • right: swimming pool
  • left bottom: tennis court
  • left top: recreation tables with benches, swing
  • top center: climbing wall

Questions for roof space usage:
  • What to add between swimming pool and tennis court?
  • How to improve swimming pool? (must be simply visible)
  • How to improve climbing wall? (must be simply visible)

What to do with roof coverage?
  • Let it as it is (but add border line)
  • Change colour but let transparent as is (and add border line)
  • Use style of reactor decorative cage (highlight borders roof tiles, but delete own tiles)

I have already tested option 3 - and found that it leads to effect that roof is larger than building. So, it is needed to extend roof construction around building walls. However, result should be probably stable.
In case of options 1 and 2, I am not sure how it will look like in game.

Offline An_dz

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2019, 06:41:37 AM »
Use the same ground texture from the in-game grass terrain. Also add black line around the small objects inside (tables, parasol).

Roof:
I think something more transparent and a lighter colour would be better.

What to do with roof coverage?
1. Move the tennis court to the middle of the "backyard" and move the small objects to that empty spot.
2. Draw it like the Pool building that is already on the SVN repository.
3. Add multiple colourful grip points, basically many single or two pixel dots.

Offline Václav

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2019, 11:39:01 AM »
Use the same ground texture from the in-game grass terrain. Also add black line around the small objects inside (tables, parasol).
The same texture as ground is not good idea - at least because powerplant would have to be built only in one climate - with the same texture, otherwise it probably would look strange if (for example) mediterranean climate texture would appear in desert. But at least I may unite all basic textures - that swimming pool surrounding and top of climbing wall would use the same texture. And maybe that tennis court would get the same texture too.

I thought about clay for tennis court, but only for very short time (in closed space it would not be good idea).

Quote
1. Move the tennis court to the middle of the "backyard" and move the small objects to that empty spot.
I am not sure what place do you think with backyard.
Code: [Select]
+---+-----+---+
| 1 |  2  | 3 |
+---+-----+---+
| 4 |  S  | 5 |
+---+-----+---+
| 6 |  7  | 8 |
+---+-----+---+

1,4 - tables, swing
2 - climbing wall
6 - tennis court
3,5,8 - swimming pool
7 - empty space

Please, use this plan to explain you idea. When I placed swing to close neighborhood, I did it to have place without much empty spaces between each item. Before adding of climbing walls, position 2 was empty too. If I understood correctly your idea, plan would be
Code: [Select]
1,4 - tables, swing
2 - climbing wall
6 - ?
3,5,8 - swimming pool
7 - tennis court
but it does not solve anything. Because still I need to know what to add there.

I thought also about campfire, but it is probably greater problem than clay on tennis court. And placing there any child-only things (like castle, sandbox) or more thrill-like things (like paint-ball or so) would not be good.

Quote
2. Draw it like the Pool building that is already on the SVN repository.
I looked at the pool on SVN.

I am not sure if I can reach the same shades of blue used there. Shading of inner space of own pool is needed, but I am not sure if pool bottom should be without tiles. I think that water surface texture is making it better (I can make it lesser transparent).

There are some things I can add
  • wall between staircase and pool (with door that would be on side of wall)
  • lockers
  • shower
  • lights (very modern)

Quote
3. Add multiple colourful grip points, basically many single or two pixel dots.
I counted with them. But I thought more about help ropes or so to add.

Offline An_dz

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2019, 01:56:19 PM »
The same texture as ground is not good idea - at least because powerplant would have to be built only in one climate
And what's the difference with the current texture? It's still only one grass texture that won't match any climate, at least using the same grass texture from one of the terrain types would make it match more the current pak96.comic style instead of this current high-textured grass right now. It's an enclosed dome, it surely has irrigation.

I am not sure what place do you think with backyard.
4 with 1 to 6 orientation, tables and stuff to 7 partially on 6.

I looked at the pool on SVN.

I am not sure if I can reach the same shades of blue used there. Shading of inner space of own pool is needed, but I am not sure if pool bottom should be without tiles. I think that water surface texture is making it better (I can make it lesser transparent).
My problem with this texture is that it's non-comic style. Matches more the pak128 style.

I counted with them. But I thought more about help ropes or so to add.
Keep things clean, you're already adding too much stuff, it gets visually unappealing.

Offline Václav

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2019, 11:08:07 PM »
And what's the difference with the current texture? It's still only one grass texture that won't match any climate, at least using the same grass texture from one of the terrain types would make it match more the current pak96.comic style instead of this current high-textured grass right now. It's an enclosed dome, it surely has irrigation.
OK. I will try to use (create) any smoother one. But it may be changed additionally, in post-releasing changes.

Quote
4 with 1 to 6 orientation, tables and stuff to 7 partially on 6.
I beg your pardon, but such items movement does not make a sense to me.

1. Tennis court rotated of 90 degrees (and moved to take place of 1 and 4) will create a lot of empty space (alongside tennis court) you need to fill.
2. Movement of tables to 7 will create a lot of another empty space you need to fill. And even if there would be also swing (moved to 6), still you need to add there more things. But I have not read any ideas of what things yet.
3. Climbing wall needs rest facility like tables and benches (or so) nearby, without passing through else sport place (like tennis court or swimming pool).

Quote
My problem with this texture is that it's non-comic style. Matches more the pak128 style.
I am not sure if water surface should be fully flat, like if it would be only mentioned on inner pool walls (like on summer face of pool). If it is what you think.

BTW, as I took a look on that pool available on SVN, I noticed that northern one is wrong shaded - because southern and northern pool (with long sides on the north and south) should be shaded the same, and eastern and western (with long sides on the east and west) pool should be shaded the same. However, northern one has lighter short (western) side, not long (northern) side. Please, take a look on it and correct it.

Offline An_dz

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2019, 12:21:46 AM »
BTW, as I took a look on that pool available on SVN, I noticed that northern one is wrong shaded - because southern and northern pool (with long sides on the north and south) should be shaded the same, and eastern and western (with long sides on the east and west) pool should be shaded the same. However, northern one has lighter short (western) side, not long (northern) side. Please, take a look on it and correct it.
The sun always comes from the south in all rotations, so the shading is correct, all objects are drawn like that. (Or at least should be)

Offline Leartin at

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2019, 04:02:21 AM »
Should be, but in case of the pool, it's messed up and requires fixing ;)

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2019, 09:01:23 PM »
Where it's messed up? Are we talking about the same file? I'm talking about this, and the wall facing south is the lighter one as it should be.

Edit: Ok, the wall IN THE POOL on the last rotation is wrong, now I got it.

Offline Václav

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2019, 08:38:21 AM »
Edit: Ok, the wall IN THE POOL on the last rotation is wrong, now I got it.
I wrote it wrong (I did not write that I think wall inside the pool, however I thought it from the first time) and so it was not clear what I think. I beg your pardon for that.

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2019, 04:52:05 PM »
No problem, it happens.

Offline Leartin at

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2019, 06:48:09 PM »
Had a moment, so attached corrected file.  8)

Offline Václav

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2019, 07:03:37 PM »
Please, find something to add to roof area.

I thought (for short time) also about open air cinema but then I decided to leave this idea, like I did it with clay for tennis court or campfire.

Currently I work on pool surroundings. Announced wall placed, then lockers, showers, lamps and may be something like sunbeds.

I decided (when I was preparing climbing wall) that some roof parts (just like climbing wall) are going to stay on the same (or similar) position in all four rotations - regardless of rotation of other parts.

Climbing wall will be always along long wall that is close to top sice of screen.
Pool will be always along short wall that is close to bottom side of screen - however, it may be moved also to short wall that is close to top side of screen. In its case it is partially irelevant which short wall...

Offline Vladki cz

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2019, 07:52:29 PM »
I Just wonder haw did you get from fusion plant to swimming pool....

However it should be empty in winter, the sun shades folded and chairs stacked away...

But even though the pool is nice.

Offline An_dz

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2019, 08:38:47 PM »
Had a moment, so attached corrected file.  8)
How dare you?! ;D

Offline Leartin at

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2019, 07:10:39 AM »
I Just wonder haw did you get from fusion plant to swimming pool....

This is a very good question. I think that type of rooftop as seen in Arcologies works best in a dense city environment, where you have little green space elsewhere, and the glass roof protects from bad city air.
The fusion plant, however, would better spawn outside cities, where it has trees and grass around it anyway. It's a bit contradicting.

Personally, I'd prefer a more 'sterile' fusion plant that focuses on it's unique geometric shape, using the toroid as the main eye catcher. Meanwhile the green rooftop can be used for a completely different building, a city curiosity that has more similarity with the original Arcologies.

How dare you?! ;D
So sorry, won't happen again, pls no ban ;)

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2019, 12:32:16 AM »
Honestly I agree with Leartin.


So sorry, won't happen again, pls no ban ;)
... and for such I won't ban him. ;D

Offline Václav

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2019, 06:29:16 PM »
Honestly I agree with Leartin.
Well, may it be - let's talk about I save that roof for some other project that will be closer to arcologies from SimCity 2000.

I needed to replace original shape of upper floors of headquarters to something simplier (regardless of all those decorations are anything else but not simple) after I missed really original plan for HQ. And this was the first idea I got.

If you find something reasonable I can use instead it (until tomorrow night), I can at least to try to think about its usage. So, the more ideas you bring the better. But please, nothing extravagant or so.

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2019, 04:34:49 AM »
Going with glass as I said would be a good idea. You can go with the basic or basic with some twists. Something a little more architectonic or a retro modernism style, or maybe a more conventional look. Maybe the edgy look or even the Aquarium style. You can also not go full glass, or get unusual alignments or even not go square all together.

Offline Václav

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2019, 11:50:02 AM »
New version of headquarters available (in attachment).

May be that staircase to roof would deserve any shelter from rain and movement to the axis of heliport.
Windows are not in the line of other surface and they are partially hidden by shieldings. Windows probably should be visible through gaps between shieldings (this effect could be better visible in pak192.comic - but there would be a problem with floor height).

Shieldings are borrowed from railway dispatchers building in Prague part known as Baladenka.



Also, I think if air-condition equipment would be on roof, in empty space between staircase and southern wall. Then staircase would stay where it is - and all roof would be more or less utilized. But else it is probably all before making other three rotations of headquarters.

Offline Václav

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Re: [WIP] Toroid fusion plant
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2019, 08:06:35 PM »
Probably final version of headquarters.

I moved main staircase to axis with the heliport - for easier preparation of other rotations. Space around main staircase is still available for adding of any decorations (but they have to wait until main works will be finished). It is all I changed - at least at this time, unless someone would find any way how to improve any part of powerplant.

I started export works. I found that size of (only summer - if you would like to have also winter version, it will be your work) final version will be too great for direct publishing in this forum.

Currently, without headquarters, it has about 384 kB (in PNG file exported by GIMP, GIMP XCF file has about 1,432 MB, original PNG files have about 817 kB). And I wait that adding of headquarters will raise size to over 500 kB.

So, final size is only about 471 kB.

But I have found I have to do some minor changes, mostly to eliminate at least a part of unwanted night-lighting pixels.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2019, 11:09:30 AM by Václav »