Too Heavy

Colin · July 12, 2009, 09:57:25 PM

What does 'Too Heavy' mean? I have just set up a airplane route using a Tristar, as soon as it left the hanger it had a yellow banner declaring 'Too Heavy'.

There were no passengers aboard as it had not pulled into the terminal. So what does 'Too Heavy' mean. The runway won't take the weight? It's not to heavy to fly because it loads passengers and takes them to their destination without any trouble.

jamespetts · July 12, 2009, 10:05:45 PM

Colin,

"Too heavy" means that the vehicle is too heavy for the way. In this case, the aircraft is too heavy for the taxiway/runway. You will need to use a runway with a higher weight rating. Thank you for your feedback :-)

Colin · July 13, 2009, 08:21:05 AM

Quote from: jamespetts on July 12, 2009, 10:05:45 PM
Colin,

"Too heavy" means that the vehicle is too heavy for the way. In this case, the aircraft is too heavy for the taxiway/runway. You will need to use a runway with a higher weight rating. Thank you for your feedback :-)

Well James I hate to contradict you and if I'm wrong I appologise in advance.

There are two runways one is grass the other is, I presume, Bitumen. known as Modern Runway, that's the one I use. There is only one Taxiway and of course that's the one I use. So I ask you again, What is TOO HEAVY??

jamespetts · July 13, 2009, 08:23:30 AM

That phrase is only used when a vehicle exceeds the way's weight limit. What weight limits are given for each type of runway?

Colin · July 13, 2009, 08:35:21 AM

Quote from: jamespetts on July 13, 2009, 08:23:30 AM
That phrase is only used when a vehicle exceeds the way's weight limit. What weight limits are given for each type of runway?

Taxiway = 100t
Grass Runway = 40t
Bitumen (Modern Runway) 950t
Can these be changed by a player?

Don't you ever go to bed?

Bernd Gabriel · July 13, 2009, 06:55:51 PM

Obviously no engineer has developed more sustainable taxiways since then. :(

jamespetts · July 13, 2009, 09:29:52 PM

Yes, this seems to be the same issue with the Pak128 runways. Perhaps you could request that their weight limit be increased in the Pak128 forum?

And, yes, I do go to bed every now and again

Colin · July 13, 2009, 10:25:44 PM

Quote from: jamespetts on July 13, 2009, 09:29:52 PM
Yes, this seems to be the same issue with the Pak128 runways. Perhaps you could request that their weight limit be increased in the Pak128 forum?

And, yes, I do go to bed every now and again

But, but sir, It never happens with Simutrans- Standard. Or it never used to. I am using PAK64 latest version with Experimental 5.0.

jamespetts · July 13, 2009, 10:41:47 PM

It doesn't happen with Simutrans-Standard because Simutrans-Standard does not enforce weight limits :-)

VS · July 14, 2009, 06:33:35 AM

Oh! 128 had on all airport parts limit of 300 tons. Will removing it help? If not, what should be the new numbers?

mwoodburn81 · July 14, 2009, 07:43:39 AM

The A-380 (the largest aircraft in PAK128) is 572tons when fully loaded, so the modern runway and taxiway needs a weight limit greater than that.

The cobblestone taxiway could get away with a smaller weight limit than the current 300 tons, perhaps in the 75-100 tons range, but i have not really analyzed the intro dates and weight limits close enough to figure out a good cut off.

VS · July 14, 2009, 07:59:28 AM

OK, for now I left the old taxiway as 300t and upped new one to 600t. Runway has also 600 as there is only one.

Colin · July 14, 2009, 08:58:17 AM

Quote from: mwoodburn81 on July 14, 2009, 07:43:39 AM
The A-380 (the largest aircraft in PAK128) is 572tons when fully loaded, so the modern runway and taxiway needs a weight limit greater than that.

Well this does not explain why the Tristar, which is a lot lighter than a A380, is TOO HEAVY for a runway which is rated as 950t.

It seems to me that the aircraft in experimental must be well overweighted.

Colin · July 14, 2009, 09:02:37 AM

Quote from: jamespetts on July 13, 2009, 10:41:47 PM
It doesn't happen with Simutrans-Standard because Simutrans-Standard does not enforce weight limits :-)

Then sir, I would suggest that you re weight your aicraft. As a A380 Which is the heavyest at 570t fully loaded (Thanks mwoodburn81) will be far TOO HEAVY for runway that is rated at a mere 950t.

You must use weights that will work within the current weight specifications, or the players will not be able to use airplanes, unless, of course they are happy to see the TOO HEAVYtag

VS · July 14, 2009, 09:20:26 AM

Talking about pak64:

The Tristar in question (pak64) weight 130 tons empty.
Taxiway has limit 100 tons. Boo.
Runways are rated 40 tons (grass) and 950 (tarmac).

jamespetts · July 14, 2009, 10:26:05 AM

Colin,

I cannot change the weight of the aircraft in Pak128, as the the pakset is not open source. If you are using Pak64 aircraft, perhaps you can request in the Pak64 forum that the weights be changed? Setting the weights of both ways and vehicles are a matter for pakset authors. I do assist with maintaining Pak128.Britain, but not Pak64 or Pak128. I know that Bernd Gabriel has made alterations to Pak64 to make it work better with Simutrans-Experimental.

Nathan Samson · July 14, 2009, 10:37:34 AM

Note that a similar problem exists with trains (in pak128)

most railways go up to 100 t or so, while most train convois are a lot more than that.

But maybe the interpretation of the weight limit could change since if the total weight of a convot is easily several 100 tons. Since it is not realistic that a train where each wagon weights 100 t (I don't think they exists but lets assume) of length 2 can run over a railway (say the weight limit is 250) but one where each wagon weights 50 ton of length 10 is too heavy...

I think the median weight (total weight / length) should be compared to the weight of a rail track, not the total weight of the convoi...

Colin · July 14, 2009, 12:23:09 PM

Quote from: jamespetts on July 14, 2009, 10:26:05 AM
Colin,

I cannot change the weight of the aircraft in Pak128, as the the pakset is not open source. If you are using Pak64 aircraft, perhaps you can request in the Pak64 forum that the weights be changed? Setting the weights of both ways and vehicles are a matter for pakset authors. I do assist with maintaining Pak128.Britain, but not Pak64 or Pak128. I know that Bernd Gabriel has made alterations to Pak64 to make it work better with Simutrans-Experimental.

Hi James, I'm beginning to wonder if you read my posts properly, or if you do, do you understand my English. I have told you many, many times, that I use PAK64. I do not use PAK128.
Therefore I do not usually correspond with the developers of PAK128. Even if I did, it would be unlikely that I would ask them to change something that pertains to PAK64, and in particular the Experimental version. So, are you suggesting that I ask the developers of PAK64 to change something that works fine in Standard but not in Experimental? Don't you think that it is more likely that there might be something wrong with your version that causes correctly weighted vehicles to be presented as TOO HEAVY?

As you stated Standard does not enforce weight limits, Experimental does, ergo, it is Experimental that is wrong. Maybe as a temporary fix, you should make your next release so that it too does not enforce weight limits. Or, as I already said, Players will not be able to use airplanes.

By the way, this problem only seems to have started with v5.0. This could be indicative of a problem in your coding.

Nathan Samson · July 14, 2009, 12:27:58 PM

Quote from: Colin on July 14, 2009, 12:23:09 PM
As you stated Standard does not enforce weight limits, Experimental does, ergo, it is Experimental that is wrong. Maybe as a temporary fix, you should make your next release so that it too does not enforce weight limits. Or, as I already said, Players will not be able to use airplanes.

By the way, this problem only seems to have started with v5.0. This could be indicative of a problem in your coding.

It is just a new feature of experimental which makes it more realistic. The data that is used from the paks, but since the paks are probably not realistic because it doesn't matter in standard.

You can play without enforce weight limits if you change simuconf.tab

# If enforce_weight_limits is set to 0, weight limits are ignored entirely. If
# enforce_weight_limits is set to 1, then vehicles can travel over roads, rails,
# speed. If enforce_weight_limits is set to 2, then vehicles cannot travel over
# To revert to the behaviour of Simutrans-Standard, set enforce_weight_limits=0
enforce_weight_limits=1

jamespetts · July 14, 2009, 12:29:39 PM

The code already uses the maximum weight of vehicles, not of convoys. A convoy will only be regarded as overweight for a way if the heaviest individual vehicle in that convoy is too heavy for that way, which is more realistic than applying an average weight (which would mean that one could make a locomotive that was too heavy for a way on its own not too heavy simply by adding enough light carriages, which makes no sense).

Edit: Colin - apologies for not recalling which pakset that you most usually use. The problem would only be with the coding if aircraft whose weight is shown as being less than the weight limit shown for the runways or taxiways are nonetheless marked as "too heavy". As Nathan points out, the use of weight limits is optional in Simutrans-Experimental.

Nathan Samson · July 14, 2009, 12:30:59 PM

Quote from: jamespetts on July 14, 2009, 12:29:39 PM
The code already uses the maximum weight of vehicles, not of convoys. A convoy will only be regarded as overweight for a way if the heaviest individual vehicle in that convoy is too heavy for that way, which is more realistic than applying an average weight (which would mean that one could make a locomotive that was too heavy for a way on its own not too heavy simply by adding enough light carriages, which makes no sense).

Oh really? I missed that...

Colin · July 14, 2009, 09:32:47 PM

Quote from: Nathan Samson on July 14, 2009, 12:27:58 PM
It is just a new feature of experimental which makes it more realistic. The data that is used from the paks, but since the paks are probably not realistic because it doesn't matter in standard.

You can play without enforce weight limits if you change simuconf.tab

# If enforce_weight_limits is set to 0, weight limits are ignored entirely. If
# enforce_weight_limits is set to 1, then vehicles can travel over roads, rails,
# speed. If enforce_weight_limits is set to 2, then vehicles cannot travel over
# To revert to the behaviour of Simutrans-Standard, set enforce_weight_limits=0
enforce_weight_limits=1

Hi Nathan,
Thanks for that. One of my posts must have gone astray, either that or I'm going quite mad. I was sure that I'd asked if this could be changed by the player, but I can't find any trace of the post. It would have saved a lot of wasted time if James had said this in the first place.
Oh well back to ga-ga land.

jamespetts · July 14, 2009, 10:44:54 PM

Colin,

I thought that you had meant to ask whether the weight limits themselves, rather than the fact that they were enforced, could be changed by the player. Apologies for misunderstanding. Please remember that settings in simuconf.tab only affect new games. Happy playing :-)

Colin · July 15, 2009, 06:52:26 AM

Quote from: jamespetts on July 14, 2009, 10:44:54 PM
Colin,
Happy playing :-)

I'm always happy playing Simutrans, trouble is, other people around me arn't happy because I spend so much time playing it. I've had to take time off from it this week because I'm restoring a caravan and my better half is complaining that I'm not spending enough time on it.
Anyway, at least you'll get a respite from my whinging.

jamespetts · July 15, 2009, 10:09:55 AM

Glad to be of assistance in distracting you from your caravan

News:

Too Heavy