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Author Topic: Restrictions on over-sea bridges  (Read 6844 times)

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Offline jamespetts gb

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Restrictions on over-sea bridges
« on: July 27, 2009, 10:56:55 PM »
Presently, it is possible to build any kind of bridge over any expanse of sea, provided that the total length of bridge is within the bridge length limit. However, in reality, it is far harder to build bridges with supports in the sea than supports in the land, and viaduct type bridges that may have no practical length restriction on land, such as this one:



would be impossible to build over the sea. It would be useful if there were a feature in which the minimum depth below sea level of a bridge support could be defined to prevent players using land viaducts to cross large expanses of ocean.

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Restrictions on over-sea bridges
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2009, 12:06:35 AM »
Or indeed just a general maximum height parameter for bridges - which would have same effect.

Offline IgorEliezer br

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Re: Restrictions on over-sea bridges
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2009, 12:17:59 AM »
10 tiles is enough. If player wants a longer bridge, "build" some isles and build bridges between them.

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall us

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Re: Restrictions on over-sea bridges
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2009, 04:38:53 AM »
10 tiles is enough.
Says you! :D

But seriously, folks have different playing styles and expectations... :)

Offline IgorEliezer br

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Re: Restrictions on over-sea bridges
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2009, 05:14:47 AM »
Says you! :D

Then call the engineers... >_>

Offline colonyan

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Re: Restrictions on over-sea bridges
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2009, 05:49:40 AM »
Interesting and must have idea.
Ideally, construction over sea shouldn't be allowed at all until serious suspension bridge or deep tunneling methods
gets established.
Maybe shallowest level could have normal bridge...

Reference

I remember read it its in India...

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Restrictions on over-sea bridges
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2009, 08:45:57 AM »
Or indeed just a general maximum height parameter for bridges - which would have same effect.

Not necessarily - building a bridge such as the viaduct shown in the first picture above in that depth of dry valley is a very different proposition to building it in an equivalent depth of tidal sea-water.

Offline Fabio

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Re: Restrictions on over-sea bridges
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2009, 10:34:58 AM »
what about:
- the bridges with pillars should be allowed to be longer (much longer) but only on land.
- the bridges without pillars should be allowed also overseas (or suspension bridges, but VERY expensive).

Offline Maragil

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Re: Restrictions on over-sea bridges
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2009, 11:04:50 AM »
Alternatively  use sea tunnels :D

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall us

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Re: Restrictions on over-sea bridges
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2009, 11:06:25 AM »

Offline micslu

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Re: Restrictions on over-sea bridges
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2009, 05:51:25 PM »
I understand the proposal from the view of realism, but I don't like the idea of too many restrictions.
I mean, this is entertainment, not engineering class presentation.
I think most players (especially the silent ones) accept the absurdities and play within these limitations/features.

So what if I want to build stone bridges spanning over the ocean?
I like the idea of being able to put together solutions in Simutrans that does not always reflect the real world.
That to me is the entertainment value of this game - a puzzle with theme that interest me.

So, if realism is to be insisted, I'd like to request it to be optional.  ;)

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Restrictions on over-sea bridges
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2009, 08:11:50 AM »
Misclu,

it would be a choice for pakset authors, so, in that sense, it would be optional. As to realism generally - the suspension of disbelief that makes the game fun (for me) is disrupted by such absurdities as brick arch viaducts crossing huge spaces of deep ocean. A very large measure of the enjoyment comes from making a workable transport network in the face of realistic constraints.

Offline Dwachs

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Re: Restrictions on over-sea bridges
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2009, 09:00:00 AM »
A very large measure of the enjoyment comes from making a workable transport network in the face of realistic constraints.
This may be not true for other players! Others may like to play with no constraints or other constraints.

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall us

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Re: Restrictions on over-sea bridges
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2009, 10:10:24 AM »
(part of the issue is that there is even disagreement on what a 'realistic' constraint would be, for even that group... just to throw my own monkey wrench into this topic :D )

Offline micslu

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Re: Restrictions on over-sea bridges
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2009, 05:48:23 PM »
jamespetts,

I think it's up to the user him/herself to build however way he/she wants.
If you think brick viaducts over ocean is absurd, you have a choice of using other probably more realistic types of bridges.
If I decide to build brick viaduct over the ocean, I am not going to bother you, unless we're playing collaboratively.

So why insist on restriction for everyone based just on your expectations?
The main reason I continue to play Simutrans over the years is to try out the variety of "pieces" offered to see how they fit into "my" world.
There are many inconsistencies and absurdities in the game, but they also offer unexpected challenges.

BTW, I admire your work on Experimental.  :)

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Restrictions on over-sea bridges
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2009, 07:03:27 PM »
Micslu,

there are lots of restrictions in Simutrans based on realism (some of which can be turned off). Speed restrictions on ways, for example, having a limited amount of money and going bankrupt if that is exceeded, not being able to build things that only become available in the future, a limitation in the length of bridges, a limitation in the height of artificial slopes - indeed, the whole game exists only through restrictions in one form or another. Your reasoning could equally apply to any restriction in the game.

I am glad that you like Simutrans-Experimental :-)

Offline AP

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Re: Restrictions on over-sea bridges
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2009, 07:04:20 PM »
I posted it in the pak-britain bridge discussion, but here it is again:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Overseas_Railroad

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Restrictions on over-sea bridges
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2009, 07:59:38 PM »
AP,

how deep is the sea there?

Offline AP

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Re: Restrictions on over-sea bridges
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2009, 08:17:48 PM »
It's the florida keys  - the line ran to Key West-  so quite shallow I think.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Restrictions on over-sea bridges
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2009, 08:23:47 PM »
That would explain it, and fits in with the original suggestion...

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Re: Restrictions on over-sea bridges
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2009, 02:56:45 PM »
Umm, after reading the origional suggestion. It is technically plausible to build one. As, I am a Textile Engineering Major, my work with structural support of polymers is based off of a few Civil engineering ideas. Not, one problem can be solved by one engineering type in fact the PE asks you Computer Engineering questions.


So in short, I could develop a bridge that could span the distance.