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Author Topic: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT  (Read 83996 times)

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Offline wlindley us

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #70 on: August 05, 2010, 03:31:06 PM »
Agree with Hajo. A variety makes the game interesting.  On the same idea, having the higher speed ways cost *much* more to maintain, forces choices to make efficient networks.

It sure would be nice if the higher speed roads, could be effectively Toll Roads, drawing income from each Citycar that traversed a square.

Offline Zeno

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #71 on: August 05, 2010, 04:02:55 PM »
I voted the last, all options available, use what you want.

But I would add a trick here ;D
I would push away intro dates for bridge & tunnel, and maybe restrict only the quickest ways, just for us who play timeline games. I mean, bridge availability might be delayed 5 years and tunnels 10, for each road type.

Offline Václav

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #72 on: August 09, 2010, 04:51:53 AM »
I don't think that availability for bridges and tunnels phased of five or ten years could be good.

Expensiveness of building and maintenance could be better - mainly if bridges would have different speed than basic road. I would offer difference less than ten percent of basic road.

Offline Fabio

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #73 on: August 09, 2010, 07:06:59 AM »
mainly if bridges would have different speed than basic road.
This is exactly what i didn't like of the current set-- and i'll avoid at any cost.

Probably a good compromise i'm thinking of is to add 110 km/h tunnel and 90 km/h elevated.

We could go with

200 km/h: road + bridge
130 km/h: road + bridge + tunnel + elevated
110 km/h: road + bridge + tunnel + elevated
90 km/h: road + bridge + tunnel + elevated
70 km/h: road + bridge
50 km/h: road + bridge + tunnel + elevated ( + special cityroad )
30 km/h: road + bridge

Overall: 23 objects and 22 icons in the menu.
In the previous project it was 20 icons. An overcrammed menu is not desirable either, it could come up to 25 (26 objects) adding:
200 km/h: elevated
70 km/h: tunnel + elevated
These could bu done too, if it's the case.
I don't intend to make 200 km/h tunnel for any reason, because i don't think it could be a safe speed in RL, i deem it too irrealistic IMO. Similarily, i consider absurd any tunnel/elevated for 30 km/h country road.
I hope VS will read this topic soon and give us his opinion on the optimal number of icons/objects to be put in the pak.

Offline Zeno

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #74 on: August 09, 2010, 07:52:51 AM »
Just an idea/question. Could we add a retire date for a couple of them? I mean, when 110kmh is available, maybe 30kmh road could become obsolete, and same with 200 and 70. Thus will make menus lighter on timeline games, and the pak would keep integrity.
I know it won't be a popular idea, but I'm sure I won't need 30kmh or 70kmh roads in year 2000 and above, I will have enough with 50kmh for "slow and cheap" purposes, and 90 for intercity. This way you would reduce the amount of icons in menu by 4 items in timeline games; I guess in non-timeline games it shouldn't matter.

Offline Fabio

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #75 on: August 09, 2010, 11:24:22 AM »
No, those are still useful.
30 km/h is very useful when you have farms and you play with tractors: their max speed is around 30 km/h, and they look better in poen countryside.
70 km/h is something in between urban roads and intercity. It can remain only way + bridge, or disappear altogether (this is an option i could go for).

200 km/h: road + bridge + elevated
130 km/h: road + bridge + tunnel + elevated
110 km/h: road + bridge + tunnel + elevated
90 km/h: road + bridge + tunnel + elevated
50 km/h: road + bridge + tunnel + elevated ( + special cityroad )
30 km/h: road + bridge

21 Icons (+ cityroad)

Here's a proposed timetable:


Offline Zeno

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #76 on: August 09, 2010, 11:29:26 AM »
That timetable looks reasonable. And 21 icons might be worthy with the amount of different possibilities that.
They still are too much for me, but I must be honest and think that most people here will like to have that many options to choose from :)

Offline ӔO

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #77 on: August 09, 2010, 12:58:43 PM »
30km/h farm road is usually a private road. most country side roads are marked as 80km/h zones even if they aren't paved to high standards and you'll sometimes see farm equipment being moved around at 30km/h on these roads.

inside dense city areas, where you'll usually find elevated freeways, the speed limit is lowered to 90~100km/h due to the shorter intervals of intersections.
Out in the country side, with long intervals of intersections, the limit is 110~130km/h.

but that's in real life.

Offline Fabio

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #78 on: August 09, 2010, 01:11:01 PM »
Ok, 110 km/h expressways will be phased out after introduction of 200 km/h autobahns.

There are no more than 18 objects at any time during the game.



I will lock the poll, as this solution appears rather convincing to me.




Zeno, could you help me, please, with balancing costs and maintainance, as a function of introduction/retirement dates and speed?
Mind that i would like to make bridges and tunnels relatively less expensive for faster ways.

I was thinking of something like this:

ROADS
200 km/h: 1100 ç
130 km/h: 620 ç
110 km/h: 440 ç
90 km/h: 290 ç
70 km/h: 180 ç
50 km/h: 90 ç
40 km/h: 60 ç
30 km/h: 30 ç

BRIDGES + ELEVATED
200 km/h: 1900 ç
130 km/h: 1420 ç
110 km/h: 1240 ç
90 km/h: 1090 ç
70 km/h: 980 ç
50 km/h: 890 ç
40 km/h: 860 ç
30 km/h: 830 ç

TUNNELS
130 km/h: 3220 ç
110 km/h: 2040 ç
90 km/h: 1890 ç
70 km/h: 1780 ç
50 km/h: 1690 ç
40 km/h: 1660 ç


EDIT: Removed timeline, as a new one is posted below. -Fabio

EDIT2: Added poll screenshot, as it may be added a new poll. -Fabio
« Last Edit: August 09, 2010, 02:58:17 PM by fabio »

Offline Zeno

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #79 on: August 09, 2010, 01:59:38 PM »
Zeno, could you help me, please, with balancing costs and maintainance, as a function of introduction/retirement dates and speed?
Mind that i would like to make bridges and tunnels relatively less expensive for faster ways.
Of course. Let me take a look first and think for a while, then I will make a proposal for costs and mantainance.

Offline Fabio

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #80 on: August 09, 2010, 02:53:02 PM »
Slightly updated timetable:



Offline arnoud

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #81 on: August 09, 2010, 05:05:25 PM »
good time line I mean

but why did you introduce the elevated way so late?
I mean that the year 1945 is better.
so in a game I can't wait for elevated ways.


Offline Fabio

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #82 on: August 09, 2010, 09:53:44 PM »
You'll have elevated for expressway (110 km/h) starting from 1930.
For the other, you have to wait 1965, when building technology improves ;)

Offline VS

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #83 on: August 09, 2010, 10:17:43 PM »
The new timeline really does look well balanced. I have nothing more to say... ;)

Offline diegoviagens

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #84 on: August 09, 2010, 11:07:41 PM »
You can build a road with three lanes in some
pak??


Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall us

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #85 on: August 10, 2010, 12:16:02 AM »
No, three lanes are not possible.

Traffic is always two-way, single-lane, no matter the graphic painting.

Offline Fabio

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #86 on: August 10, 2010, 06:45:58 AM »
The new timeline really does look well balanced. I have nothing more to say... ;)
Thank you! So this is the way I'll go! :)

Traffic is always two-way, single-lane, no matter the graphic painting.
It's also possible to make it one way using appropriate signs. In this case, using the second lane to overtake slower vehicles will be easier.

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall us

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #87 on: August 10, 2010, 12:36:09 PM »
But traffic is still always two-way, which is what I intended to emphasize. It's very true that a no-entry type sign will prevent traffic from passing that sign in one direction; however, roads are still two-way - which I think is important to realizing what's really going on when we create freeways. :-)

Offline Fabio

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #88 on: August 11, 2010, 07:19:55 AM »
A further improved timetable version:
Changes:
- new 50 km/h gravel road (road + bridge) to be used as intercity road before 1900 (when the 70 km/h is introduced) and till 1929 as a cheaper alternative.
- 70 km/h road will retire only in 1964, being gradually phased out after 90 km/h intercity road introduction in 1945.





EDIT: About balancing, the new 50 km/h gravel road should be *cheaper* than 40 km/h stone paved cityroad (which should be relatively quite expensive for the era).



EDIT2:

Here's the statistics of the works:

Overall work in progress: 52%

Highways: 82%

Intercity: 44%

Urban: 21%

Rural: 45%

- 200 km/h: Road (99%)          + Bridge(100%)                + Elevated (30%)
- 130 km/h: Road(100%)          + Bridge(100%) + Tunnel (99%) + Elevated(100%)
- 110 km/h: Road (90%)          + Bridge (90%) + Tunnel  (0%) + Elevated (90%)
-  90 km/h: Road(100%)          + Bridge (90%) + Tunnel (99%) + Elevated  (0%)
-  70 km/h: Road (80%)          + Bridge (30%) + Tunnel  (0%)
-  50 km/h: Gravel Road  (0%)   + Bridge  (0%)
-  50 km/h: CityRoad (60%)      + Bridge  (0%) + Tunnel  (0%) + Elevated  (0%)
-  40 km/h: Stone Road (90%)    + Bridge  (0%) + Tunnel  (0%)
-  30 km/h: Dirt Road (90%)     + Bridge  (0%)

« Last Edit: August 11, 2010, 09:15:30 AM by fabio »

Offline stmaker

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #89 on: August 19, 2010, 06:45:32 AM »
So, when will your project be downloaded?

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall us

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #90 on: August 19, 2010, 07:47:43 AM »
When it's done.

There's no need to ask when something will be released. It will be released when it's released.

Offline Fabio

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #91 on: August 19, 2010, 08:24:48 AM »
Here's the statistics update of the works:


Overall work in progress: 64%

Highways: 84%

Intercity: 44%

Urban: 64%

Rural: 45%

- 200 km/h: Road (99%)          + Bridge(100%)                + Elevated (30%)
- 130 km/h: Road(100%)          + Bridge(100%) + Tunnel (99%) + Elevated(100%)
- 110 km/h: Road (90%)          + Bridge (90%) + Tunnel (10%) + Elevated (90%)
-  90 km/h: Road(100%)          + Bridge (90%) + Tunnel (99%) + Elevated  (0%)
-  70 km/h: Road (80%)          + Bridge (30%) + Tunnel  (0%)
-  50 km/h: Gravel Road  (0%)   + Bridge  (0%)
-  50 km/h: CityRoad (90%)      + Bridge (90%) + Tunnel  (0%) + Elevated (90%)
-  40 km/h: Stone Road (90%)    + Bridge (90%) + Tunnel  (0%)
-  30 km/h: Dirt Road (90%)     + Bridge  (0%)


The improvement has mostly concerned new and old cityroads.

Offline stmaker

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #92 on: August 20, 2010, 12:20:58 AM »
16/25 of the project is complete. Ok... nice.

Offline gforce

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #93 on: August 23, 2010, 10:57:10 AM »
are these new roads gonna be parts of pak128-set or an extra add-on you'll have to download?

Offline Fabio

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #94 on: August 23, 2010, 03:30:46 PM »
My plan is for them to be part of pak128-set, replacing ALL the other roads.
Obviously the Pakmaster needs to include them ;)

Offline diegoviagens

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #95 on: August 23, 2010, 06:22:35 PM »
it can also provide addseria interesting to
people who do not want to download another 128 pak

Offline stmaker

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #96 on: August 24, 2010, 09:23:11 AM »
My plan is for them to be part of pak128-set, replacing ALL the other roads.
Obviously the Pakmaster needs to include them ;)

You have done great for pak.128.

Offline Zeno

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #97 on: August 24, 2010, 01:43:05 PM »
My plan is for them to be part of pak128-set, replacing ALL the other roads.
Obviously the Pakmaster needs to include them ;)
It will be really difficult to resist to such a sweet candy, fabio! :D

Offline VS

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #98 on: August 24, 2010, 03:08:55 PM »
I don't expect any delays once the data are ready for use ;)

Offline rfg123

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #99 on: August 24, 2010, 05:28:01 PM »
I really like this roads, especially the new dirt texture! I think it is great you are making a more dynamic road network for pak128, it helps add character to better represent certain eras.

One request though.. Could there be a slightly darker colored, slower (15 or 20 km/h) version of the dirt road for the early years (say pre-1900) included in the set? There are not a lot of choices during those years and it would be neat to have some variety. It can be a "stage road", "wagon trail" or some such thing..
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 05:48:59 PM by rfg123 »

Offline greephus

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #100 on: September 14, 2010, 03:33:45 PM »
Hi guys/fabio,
could you please help me how could I get these nice roads?
I'd like to build some dual carriage highway and they match perfectly to my idea :)
Thanks



- Overview

- 90 km/h intercity road

- 110 km/h expressway

- 130 km/h motorway

- 200 km/h autobahn
...
...
...
« Last Edit: September 14, 2010, 03:53:52 PM by vilvoh »

Offline Fabio

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #101 on: September 15, 2010, 07:11:54 AM »
you can't get them... yet!
once they are finished, they will be released ;D

Offline greephus

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #102 on: September 15, 2010, 09:10:58 AM »
sounds good
can't wait   :D

do we know something about the date when it will be released?

Offline Fabio

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #103 on: September 15, 2010, 09:15:50 AM »
At least another 1-2 months.
unfortunately, painting time runs thin, these days...

Offline greephus

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Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
« Reply #104 on: September 15, 2010, 09:29:23 AM »
really?  ???
did not know that it takes so much time, since on the screenshot seems fine