PAK128-741 Fatal Error

Colin · November 02, 2009, 09:12:21 AM

Hi guys, I need help here.

I've just downloaded PAK128-741 and I copied the PAK files only in to my PAK 128 PAK folder overwriting the existing files. When I try to exe the program I get The following.

Fatal Error:
12skin_besch_t-object
Windows Skin Not Found.

When I copy the PAK 128-718 files back it works fine.

What am I doing wrong?

Frank · November 02, 2009, 09:42:58 AM

the file [program]/simutrans/skin/menu.WindowSkin.pak ist missing

This folder is missing in offical 0.102.2.

The program-nightlys included this folder.

see http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=3608.0

Colin · November 03, 2009, 06:40:56 AM

Quote from: Frank on November 02, 2009, 09:42:58 AM
the file [program]/simutrans/skin/menu.WindowSkin.pak ist missing

This folder is missing in offical 0.102.2.

The program-nightlys included this folder.

see http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=3608.0

Ok I've read all them it doesn't help me co's I'm thick. How do I get the game to work or how do I get the Windows Skin to work in the latest update?
Or Why the hell is it missing and causing all this agro? When it's always been there.

I've just tried again with no luck. I copy 718 PAK files over the 741 PAK files it works fine. I copy the 741 PAK files over the 718 PAK files it doesn't work. What is different about the 718 and 741 PAK files? Is one of them missing from 741? If so will some one explain in laymans language which one it is? AND! How I fix it?

Frank · November 03, 2009, 10:13:11 AM

GUI.64.pak

prissi · November 03, 2009, 02:59:17 PM

Colin, most pakset-nightlies should be tested with the corresponding executable nightly. When new objects are introduced in makeobj, even old executable could not even read paks from pakset nightly. Thus using an executable nightly with a nightly pakset is really recommended.

Colin · November 03, 2009, 08:15:41 PM

Quote from: prissi on November 03, 2009, 02:59:17 PM
Colin, most pakset-nightlies should be tested with the corresponding executable nightly. When new objects are introduced in makeobj, even old executable could not even read paks from pakset nightly. Thus using an executable nightly with a nightly pakset is really recommended.

Hi Prissi, Thank you for your reply, however. I am using r2836 which was posted at the same time as PAK 741. I download almost every nightly exe that is posted. The only think that I do that others may not do is, I only transfer the PAK files from a PAK set update. I don't usually transfer the Config.tab, City Rules etc because they very rarely alter. Maybe that's my problem here.

Solved, I've just done a complete new install using PAK 741 and r2839. It seems to be workijng fine. Thank you all for your help.

PS: I have noticed that there is a 'SKIN' folder now which was not in the 'my' previous versions.

wernieman · November 03, 2009, 09:20:29 PM

Do you use a "code" or a "Full" nightly??

Colin · November 04, 2009, 03:21:52 AM

Quote from: wernieman on November 03, 2009, 09:20:29 PM
Do you use a "code" or a "Full" nightly??

I used r2836 and PAK 128.741 I also tried Pak128.open and Pak 64.230 all with the same results. I have them working now because I've done complete new install. What I don't quite understand is, why, when I just copied the PAK files and nothing else it would not work, yet, when I copied the older PAK files back it worked fine.

As I said in my previous post, there wasn't a Windows Skin folder but now there is. So this lends itself to the question. why did one work without the Windows Skin folder and the next version wouldn't. Plus Why was there no written explanation of this either on your download page, or someplace else?

If it was hard for me to find the answer, and I've been playing the game for donkeys years, how hard would a newbie find it. I notice in the other posts on this topic, (my bad for not seeing this previous) that even Hajo had asked a question about it.

The other question that I ask is why tinker with that part of the game at all?

It's bad enough with James and his experimental, he's turning what was a very enjoyable game to play into a Train Engineers training simulator. One day you'll need a qualified Train Engineers certificate and a degree in applied physics to play it.

prissi · November 04, 2009, 03:42:06 PM

Well, the nightlies just reflect the development at the end of the day.For "serious" gaming actually the releases are though of. Infofar the nightlies come without installer and so on.

DirrrtyDirk · November 04, 2009, 04:20:51 PM

Quote from: Colin on November 04, 2009, 03:21:52 AM
As I said in my previous post, there wasn't a Windows Skin folder but now there is. So this lends itself to the question. why did one work without the Windows Skin folder and the next version wouldn't. Plus Why was there no written explanation of this either on your download page, or someplace else?

Probably you only downloaded the small zip file that just contained the .exe - and of course this doesn't include the folder structure - i.e. the new skin folder . So only when you did the complete new install, this folder was created (and filled with necessary content) - or you could have done it manually.

But we're talking about nightly versions here. And we should not forget what this means. They are not officially released or tested in any way. They are automatically generated - whether the intended changes in code or file structure etc. are yet complete or not. And there is no guarantee that they work out of the box - or even at all. And everyone using nightlies should remind himself of that once in a while. So by using a nightly you kind of accept that things like these can happen - since it is all taken right out the middle of development. Also the files with just the exe are certainly useful (and lead to lower server traffic) - but they are not the "complete" nightly - as we have learned once more by this issue.

The problem is of course that the long periods between official releases (and all the bugs that get fixed, and even more, all the exciting new features that get added in between) will lead (or I'd almost say "force") people to use nightlies more and more instead of release versions - especially since most (if not all) releases since... uh at least 100.0 turned out to be more or less buggy.

On the other hand you are right: a little more information from developers (not necessarily prissi himself - we have a bunch of people working on the code, checking for bugs and writing patches - one of them could also drop a line or two, once in while) wouldn't exactly hurt either.

And maybe in case of pak128 the menuskin file didn't really have to be removed yet... but then again, as long as it is the exact same one than pak64 had (and I think it was) - and which is now part of the program distribution instead of the pakset - why keep redundant files longer than necessary...

So I think we can put it down to this: It didn't work because you used two incompatible (nightly) versions together, caused by (as I presume) an only partial update (=only the exe file instead of the full structure) - which again was caused by not enough documentation being available. There's quite a discussion going on about this in the German forum as well, by the way...

Colin · November 04, 2009, 05:14:21 PM

Hi Dirrk,

You are probably right in all you say and I suppose I didn't pick it up because it's never happened before and I download every nightly that gets released. So is the Windows Skin folder going to remain or will it be removed? If it is removed does that meant the game will not run under Windows any more? Is there also going to be a Linux Skin and a Mac Skin?

DirrrtyDirk · November 04, 2009, 06:30:38 PM

Ok, first of all: it's just WindowSkin (nothing to do with Windows the operating system, it's just a about the program window - and these exist on all the mentioned systems. So it's made for all of them, not just for Windows - and no other version will be needed.

Also it's not new, it has been there forever (so to say) - it has only been moved to a new location. And as far as I understood it, that was done so that the dialogue that allows people to choose which pakset they want to play, can be made to look nicer (which wouldn't be possible with this file still placed in a pak folder.)

So, yes it is probably very likely that it will stay this way - as the wanted effect requires the file outside of any pakset-folder. However, if a pakset still has a different skin-file, it will override the one on the new location (so pakset maintainers can still customize these skins to their ideas).

Colin · November 04, 2009, 09:10:50 PM

Than you for explaining that to Dirrk, It's amazing what a simple explanation can do. Pity it wasn't given at the start. We are not all rocket scientists.

I must admit I've never seen this particular folder or it's contents before which is why it threw me when all of a sudden my game wouldn't work.
So thanks again Dirrk.

To all you wonderful developers please when you do something that radically alters the game can you give a laymans explanation of what you've done and how it affects players. I really don't want to have to chase answers when all of a sudden my game wont work. Bugs I can understand, changes that stop a game from working is beyond my current mental powers. I'm getting old and tired and I'd rather not cause any aggro. So if I've offended any of you with my bad temper, I'm sorry.

Keeps my post numbers up though

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PAK128-741 Fatal Error