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Offline DirrrtyDirk

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Snow textures
« on: September 12, 2008, 01:13:24 AM »
As I don't like the current snow texture very much, I have created a proposal for a replacement. What do you think?

left = new; right = old

EDIT: picture removed - new textures are part of the pak128 nightlies by now
« Last Edit: September 26, 2008, 11:18:19 AM by DirrrtyDirk »

Offline PatrickN

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Re: Snow textures
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2008, 02:01:13 AM »
The one on the left is really bright and hurts my eyes. :-\

Offline Alex. Brose

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Re: Snow textures
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2008, 07:43:31 AM »
The older one looks like ash.

As we know the sun always shines in the world of Simutrans. I.m.h.o. Dirk's proposal is much more realistic.

Offline Frank

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Re: Snow textures
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2008, 09:25:52 AM »
for a other texture see here

Offline DirrrtyDirk

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Re: Snow textures
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2008, 10:09:55 AM »
...really bright and hurts my eyes. :-\

Just as snow does in real life, huh?  ;D

It's not final though, I could still reduce brightness a bit, but... (see below)

@Frank:

Sorry, I wasn't aware that you already did the same almost 2 years ago.  :-[  Would have saved me a lot of ... well actually maybe 5-10 minutes of work  ;), so it's not that bad. Yours is at least as good as mine and probably doesn't hurt people's eyes as much.

So what shall it be? Should we use Frank's or should I try and improve my own version to make it little less bright?

Offline VS

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Re: Snow textures
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2008, 10:18:50 AM »
I'd say, less bright, but it really is better. One particular big plus is that I can't see grid.

Offline Frank

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Re: Snow textures
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2008, 10:40:37 AM »
for snow textures also a thread in the German forum


http://www.simutrans-forum.de/forum/thread.php?postid=28239#post28239

picture from this thread (Nov 2007)

« Last Edit: September 12, 2008, 10:54:34 AM by Frank »

Offline VS

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Re: Snow textures
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2008, 10:52:52 AM »
Hm, as Hajo said, a hint of blue could help it...

Offline DirrrtyDirk

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Re: Snow textures
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2008, 12:27:32 PM »
ok, a little darker and a little more biased towards blue:

Better?

EDIT: picture removed - new textures are part of the pak128 nightlies by now
« Last Edit: September 26, 2008, 11:18:44 AM by DirrrtyDirk »

Offline Alex. Brose

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Re: Snow textures
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2008, 12:38:32 PM »
Looks great.
Similar to the snow in the german scenario, just with a hint blue more.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2008, 12:40:55 PM by Alex. Brose »

Offline VS

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Re: Snow textures
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2008, 01:49:21 PM »
Well, can you judge just from a screenshot? Maybe commit to svn so that "we" can take a look at it in real game...

I can handle svn well enough to return to the previous state if it's too bad :)

Offline DirrrtyDirk

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Re: Snow textures
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2008, 02:05:04 PM »
Yes, I can sure do that (will do so in a minute) - and don't worry, I'll just change the dat and use an external picture for the snow.

But since I found out that the method I used for the snow also allows for making other ground textures quite easily, I just did a new version for all climates, too. (I did that just for testing purposes, not because I thought that all needed replacements. But I am quite happy with the results already - although they could probably be improved still).

Any interest in a testing version of those, anybody?

Offline PatrickN

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Re: Snow textures
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2008, 09:44:02 PM »
ok, a little darker and a little more biased towards blue:

Better?

As the folks at McDonald's used to say, "I'm loving it." :)  It isn't so bright, but it is still a lot brighter than the gray stuff we have now.

Offline VS

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Re: Snow textures
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2008, 10:05:01 PM »
Yes, that's definitely better.

Offline DirrrtyDirk

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Re: Snow textures
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2008, 11:09:09 PM »
Like I said earlier: since it was so easy, I just did a whole new set of ground textures.

Maybe some of it is of interest to somebody.

Here's a preview:

EDIT: picture removed - new textures are part of the pak128 nightlies by now
« Last Edit: September 26, 2008, 11:19:04 AM by DirrrtyDirk »

Offline VS

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Re: Snow textures
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2008, 07:54:19 AM »
What did you change? I think desert is now brighter, and some climates less "grainy"?

Offline DirrrtyDirk

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Re: Snow textures
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2008, 10:23:18 AM »
Just to clarify: I didn't change the old ones - I did all the new ones from scratch. But I tried to keep the general look of most zones - apparently that worked well enough.  ;)

I guess to really see the changes, one has to see them in the game again, not just on screenshot. Especially when you have opened two simutrans windows parallel (with the same map but with different versions of that pak file) the differences are clearly visible.

Just wondering if should do that again via SVN or just put the pak here?

But yes, a brighter desert (actually it's now a sandy desert. I know that not all deserts are of that type - far from it! - but I think that's what everyone has in mind when talking about deserts anyway), and less grainy textures were two of the main objectives. Also I wanted tropic, mediterran and temperate to be more easily distinguishable from each other.


Ok here is what I got so far:
(please backup your original ground.ClimateTexture.pak and ground.LightTexture.pak)
Remember: this is still just a prototype, not the final product - so nothing is fixed yet.



EDIT: file removed - new textures are part of the pak128 nightlies by now
« Last Edit: September 26, 2008, 11:20:13 AM by DirrrtyDirk »

Offline DirrrtyDirk

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Re: Snow textures
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2008, 04:43:55 PM »
8 downloads and no comment... So ugly you people fell dead in front of your computer?  ;D

Offline gauthier

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Re: Snow textures
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2008, 07:33:58 PM »
I'm waiting for including in nighlies  ;)

Offline DirrrtyDirk

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Re: Snow textures
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2008, 07:47:32 PM »
The only thing that's in the nightly so far is the new snow, together with the improved lightmap for the hill-curves.

The other textures won't get into the SVN/nightly server as long as I don't get any feedback (or unless VS asks me to do it regardless of feedback).

Offline VS

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Re: Snow textures
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2008, 08:46:49 PM »
My apologies - I thought you will commit when you feel it is done. I checked, and...

Deserts feel somewhat unnatural at first, but after all they clearly are better. It just takes some time to get used to them.

The higher climates are good. No comments on these.

The second lowest climate is maybe too bright. Eh, not maybe, but definitely. I don't know if "bright" is the right word. But it looks too "happy" together with desert next to it. There are some new cool forestconf.tab switches for having an entire climate filled by trees, so let's give it a shot with all trees, then it might be a bit better. I'll be back in a few moments.



OK, that is certainly not bad. BUT! Woe is me! We have trees with falling leaves in "tropical" climate!

I'm committing the changes to forests, please take a look.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2008, 09:02:04 PM by VS »

Offline DirrrtyDirk

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Re: Snow textures
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2008, 09:03:28 PM »
Hmm second lowest... the dark green one? That's the tropical climate - I somehow wanted to get a rainforest/jungle feeling. Of course, right next to a desert, the contrast is a bit harsh - but OTOH, a real rainforest next to a real desert would have the same effect, I bet...  :D

I haven't checked with trees yet. But the tropical one should get lots of 'em, and the desert might look less odd with cactuses and rocks (ground-objects)...

Just like I said: this is just the beginning, not the end.  :)

Offline VS

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Re: Snow textures
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2008, 09:28:43 PM »
Of course!

Somehow I think the progression desert-rainforest-mediterranean-moderate doesn't make sense. When I envision Mediterranean landscape, it's dry - not like desert, but with trees here and there, maybe steppes could roughly fall into that category... that might be next to desert. But definitely not rainforests. Looking at some satellite shots, it looks like deserts aren't really dependent on temperature or altitude... of course it's about humidity and that depends on terrain profile + wind direction + distance to water.

Bleh, enough pointless rambling. We have to live with this system. It looks quite passable with trees.

Offline DirrrtyDirk

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Re: Snow textures
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2008, 09:41:59 PM »
But you are aware of the fact that this sequence is not fixed, aren't you?

If you'd for example use settings like

Desert -4
Tropic -3
Mediterran. -2
Temp. -5

The map will have this sequence:

Water-Med-Tropic-Desert-Temp-etc. (not that this makes more sense - but it is possible.)

Anyway, I usually play only with the zones from med to arctic, leaving tropic and desert behind. But if I did decide to use them, I'd probably choose just one of them - because they don't seem to fit together on one map IMO.

Now something else:
I just tried with the settings you made, and it looks quite good so far - except that sometimes forests (the dense areas, not just single trees) grow in the desert. When I set the "no_tree_climates" switch to include deserts, all that disappears are the single trees - the dense forests remain. Is that intended or a bug of that function? Because I'd say we'd need it the other way round for deserts: single bushes and cactuses should grow, but no complete forests of any kind.

Offline VS

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Re: Snow textures
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2008, 10:11:30 PM »
Oh, I didn't know you can swap order - iirc I tried once in the past when it was new and got a crash instead. That experience was end of my tests :)

About non-tree climates - I would say it is intended that way, but of course some more precise control would be nice.

Offline DirrrtyDirk

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Re: Snow textures
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2008, 10:20:05 PM »
So... it's your call, chief. Replace the old ones in the SVN or not (yet)? Anything that needs to be changed?

Offline VS

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Re: Snow textures
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2008, 10:28:07 PM »
Send them in. It's a time machine after all...

Offline DirrrtyDirk

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Re: Snow textures
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2008, 10:48:06 PM »
Ok, everything's in.