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Author Topic: City Buildings  (Read 24456 times)

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Offline kierongreen

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2010, 07:17:18 PM »
The issue is that in Britain we didn't have huge amounts of steel framed brick buildings. Buildings tended to be just brick, stone, or whatever so were limited to lower heights. Obviously that changed over time but that particular example just looks too tall and narrow to me anyway...

Offline wlindley us

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2010, 04:07:45 PM »
Per request, 1920s brick version of the shops and offices... source and pak are in a zipfile... I chose seemingly reasonable demand and passenger values.



kieron -- agreed, that tower does look too narrow, perhaps I shall concoct a replacement. 

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2010, 04:11:37 PM »
Looking very nice!

Offline The Hood

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #38 on: January 15, 2010, 05:03:06 PM »
Nice - but I'm not 100% convinced they are 1920s.  Maybe 30s, but probably more 50s/60s.  Then again I'm no expert, so I'd be interested on other people's views.

Offline kierongreen

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2010, 10:13:49 AM »
To me there's something which doesn't look quite... British?.. about them. All of the buildings I made for the pak were based on real world prototypes. These seem more derived from existing buildings within the pak, and don't quite match what you see along the high street. Just my opinion (and definitely not a criticism of the graphics, technically speaking it's fine).

I agree that 1920's (and 30's) should have a more art deco feel (see the ferry terminals for example).

Offline AP

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2010, 10:50:10 AM »
I'd expect 1920s british to either, as you say, be art-deco or arts-and-crafts (garden city style half-timbered) buildings, or perhaps like the works of CR MacKintosh. Multi-storied brick buildings in british cities are more likely to be victorian-edwardian, or copies thereof, more ornate (look at central Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow). Even art-deco was more into the 1930s (Broadcasting House was 1932), though it started in the 1920s of course. The first world war had an effect of making everyone conservative for a while. There was a resurgance of neoclassicism as well at that time.

Le Corbusier's "Vers une architecture", the book that popularised modernism, wasn't published until 1927 (and that was in French). Britain was architecturally more conservative than continental europe, modernism didn't really take off until after 1945. You can count the preWW2 modernist buildings on one hand (Ernő Goldfinger at Willow Road, Serge Chermayeff in Bexhill, Lubetkin at Genesta Road and Highpoint, all 1930s).

Actually, the biggest architectural trend in britain in the 1920s and 30s, was (boringly) the creation of suburbia, and urban sprawl. It started a bit before WW1 (Letchworth/Hampsted Garden Cities), but really took off with government backing after the war.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2010, 11:11:25 AM by AP »

Offline wlindley us

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2010, 01:43:09 PM »
Kieron, AP -- Yes these buildings are based on the existing pak buildings.  My idea was that would be the best way of a consistent look, plus being possible for me to create.  My knowledge of British architecture is from what I have seen on American public television and the occasional movie, plus a few weeklong vacations mostly in London and Kent. 

I do hope you'll continue to humo(u)r me as I love the look and play of the pak.  Meanwhile I'll take another stab at Blender and see what happens.  Any good tutorial recommendations?  Something like "Here's how to draw a rectangle and place it in the 3-d space"

Offline Gouv

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #42 on: January 16, 2010, 03:57:03 PM »
Well, there was a nice Video-Tutorial on youtube that helped me, but i cant find it anymore  :-[
However, there are still many Blender-Tutorials on youtube, try those.

Offline The Hood

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #43 on: January 17, 2010, 10:37:25 AM »

Offline The Hood

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #44 on: January 22, 2010, 09:50:29 AM »
I just found this website which may be of use in finding images of British buildings: http://www.geograph.org.uk/

Having had more of a think about the shops, I think I'm going to use the concrete ones for the 1950s, and maybe mix in some of those brick ones, but I don't think any of them are good for the inter-war buildings.  Something deco-style, probably with a sloping roof as well is what is needed.  A bit like http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1291377 or for variety as AP suggested http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1211681

@wlindley - how's the blender going?  If you want any models to play with and adapt, just ask.  Also any idea if/when you could make a brown-tiled roof version of the 1900s garage and car dealer, or when you could do snow images?  Not wanting to pester, just trying to work out what might go into the next release...

Offline wlindley us

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #45 on: January 22, 2010, 03:45:33 PM »
Blender, haven't got too far.  Perhaps if you could send a sample Blender building file that would catapult me to the next level...

 I did the auto industry roof update and snow versions, though (just the .png's for you, if you don't mind the trivial .dat modifications):






here's the gimp file with layers
« Last Edit: January 22, 2010, 03:53:27 PM by wlindley »

Offline The Hood

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #46 on: January 22, 2010, 03:53:10 PM »
Awesome thanks!  Any particular building blend file you would like?

Offline wlindley us

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #47 on: January 23, 2010, 03:47:04 PM »
Perhaps the Car Factory. The current one looks 1950s (to me) and an earlier one would be all brick (and earlier model vehicles).

Meantime, how about a 1909-era electrical substation (as the days of town gas begin to wind down)


Offline The Hood

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #48 on: January 23, 2010, 04:04:21 PM »
Hmm, looks a little large for a substation, and I'm not convinced by the big cube of brick on the left - have you got a photo or something of what it's meant to look like?

Anyway here's the car factory blend:

http://files.simutrans.us/files/get/G6_Ov0vk1L/car-factory2.blend

Offline wlindley us

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #49 on: January 23, 2010, 04:40:37 PM »
Yes, I'll remove the 'cube' on left... and keep working on it.  I used bits from the existing Coal Power Station (for a consistent this-is-the-power-company look) and used this structure on the London Mainline for inspiration





Offline The Hood

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2010, 04:45:01 PM »
OK.  I'd suggest removing the cube and having a fenced off area with some machinery in or something instead, like on the right in the photo.

Offline wlindley us

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Re: Electrical substation
« Reply #51 on: January 24, 2010, 01:46:01 PM »
Like this, perhaps?


Offline The Hood

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #52 on: January 24, 2010, 02:12:04 PM »
Much better, like it :D

Offline wlindley us

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #53 on: January 24, 2010, 03:22:51 PM »
OK, sources and .pak here

Offline The Hood

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #54 on: January 24, 2010, 03:55:19 PM »
Cool.  Any chance of 4 rotations and some snow images? Not that I'm being a slave driver or anything :P

Offline wlindley us

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #55 on: January 27, 2010, 02:45:54 PM »
how about two rotations and snow?  updated

Offline The Hood

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #56 on: January 27, 2010, 03:48:17 PM »
I suppose that will do ;) You drive a hard bargain...

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #57 on: February 09, 2011, 08:27:23 AM »
WLindley,

it seems that the files that you uploaded have expired; could you re-upload the supermarket?  I don't think that that made it into the SVN.

Offline wlindley us

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #58 on: February 09, 2011, 03:33:13 PM »
grocers.zip contains the 1x1 Supermarket

... and also 1840s-to-1940s Grocers that handle Canned Goods.  Canned Goods have long been defined but have been unused, I have tentative Cannery chains (Meat+Flour+Steel to Canned Goods; and likewise for Fruit and Fish) but they use the Dairy graphics so far... You could safely remove the grocers.png and all but the last stanza of grocers.dat for just the Supermarket, as its graphics are already in 1950shops.png which is in.

As for the 1970s era 3x3 supermarket, I got sidetracked trying to find a way to draw things generally.  Am still trying to suss how to enter coordinates (typing x,y) into Blender, with zero luck after months.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #59 on: February 09, 2011, 04:09:25 PM »
Thank you for that - I'll have a look at those files when I get a chance to look at the forum from my desktop computer as opposed to my smartphone. As to drawing graphics, I might be able to assist, as I have done a number of vehicle graphics. Did you make a start on the 3x3 supermarket? If so, do e-mail me the .blend file. Making the models in Blender is, I find, one of the easier parts of the process - what I have never worked out what to do is how to use TileCutter. If you could look into exporting it, I could see if I could finish the .blend file and send it to you. Thank you for re-uploading those.

Edit: I note that quite a number of the shop images aren't used - what were the ones that are not currently used intended for?
« Last Edit: February 10, 2011, 01:33:34 AM by jamespetts »

Offline wlindley us

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #60 on: February 10, 2011, 03:46:15 AM »
Let's see.  In the industry/ directory...

Code: [Select]
grep 1950shops *.dat | sort -t \. -n -k 3,4 |less
shows us that these are currently unused:

  • 3.1, 3.2 (intended as newsagent);
  • 4.0, 4.1; 4.2, 4.3; 4.6, 4.7  (intended as "shops and offices")

Somehow, the 1950 and 1970 newsagents wound up with 3.6 and 3.7 (which appear as, and are used as, the Furniture Store) instead of 3.1 and 3.2; that should be corrected.

As for the 4.x pairs, those would add a 2-storey and two 4-storey buildings to the 1950s onwards rosters; Here is a .dat segment if those are desired:

Code: [Select]
# 2-story Shops & Offices. not an industry, but uses common images with the shops
Obj=building
Name=WL_IND_50_01
copyright=Kieron & WLindley
type=com
chance=50
Level=10
intro_year=1950
retire_year=2030
needs_ground=1
dims=1,1,4
BackImage[2][0][0][0][0]=images/1950shops.2.0
BackImage[1][0][0][0][0]=images/1950shops.4.6
BackImage[0][0][0][0][0]=images/1950shops.4.7
BackImage[3][0][0][0][0]=images/1950shops.2.3
--
# 4-story Shops & Offices. not an industry, but uses common images with the Department store
Obj=building
Name=WL_IND_50_02
copyright=Kieron & WLindley
type=com
chance=50
Level=15
intro_year=1950
retire_year=2030
needs_ground=1
dims=1,1,4
BackImage[2][0][0][0][0]=images/1950shops.1.0
BackImage[1][0][0][0][0]=images/1950shops.4.0
BackImage[0][0][0][0][0]=images/1950shops.4.1
BackImage[3][0][0][0][0]=images/1950shops.1.3
--
# 4-story Shops & Offices. not an industry, but uses common images with the Department store
Obj=building
Name=WL_IND_50_03
copyright=Kieron & WLindley
type=com
chance=50
Level=20
intro_year=1950
retire_year=2030
needs_ground=1
dims=1,1,4
BackImage[2][0][0][0][0]=images/1950shops.1.0
BackImage[1][0][0][0][0]=images/1950shops.4.2
BackImage[0][0][0][0][0]=images/1950shops.4.3
BackImage[3][0][0][0][0]=images/1950shops.1.3
--

Offline wlindley us

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #61 on: February 11, 2011, 01:16:54 PM »
A Blender Aha!

I just discovered if you just hit the 'n' key, you get a "Transforms" window that actually lets you view and enter coordinates.  It's like someone flicked the lights on and now I am not in the darkness!  Sure would relieve frustration if that were in any of the Blender tutorials... OK now to work on the supermarket, finally.  I may even be able to do something about USA pak...

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #62 on: February 11, 2011, 01:52:37 PM »
Excellent! While you're at it, could you also do a cannery/food packaging plant to go with the grocery chain so that graphics are no longer shared with the dairy?

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #63 on: February 12, 2011, 01:00:31 PM »
As for the 4.x pairs, those would add a 2-storey and two 4-storey buildings to the 1950s onwards rosters; Here is a .dat segment if those are desired:

Code: [Select]
# 2-story Shops & Offices. not an industry, but uses common images with the shops
Obj=building
Name=WL_IND_50_01
copyright=Kieron & WLindley
type=com
chance=50
Level=10
intro_year=1950
retire_year=2030
needs_ground=1
dims=1,1,4
BackImage[2][0][0][0][0]=images/1950shops.2.0
BackImage[1][0][0][0][0]=images/1950shops.4.6
BackImage[0][0][0][0][0]=images/1950shops.4.7
BackImage[3][0][0][0][0]=images/1950shops.2.3
--
# 4-story Shops & Offices. not an industry, but uses common images with the Department store
Obj=building
Name=WL_IND_50_02
copyright=Kieron & WLindley
type=com
chance=50
Level=15
intro_year=1950
retire_year=2030
needs_ground=1
dims=1,1,4
BackImage[2][0][0][0][0]=images/1950shops.1.0
BackImage[1][0][0][0][0]=images/1950shops.4.0
BackImage[0][0][0][0][0]=images/1950shops.4.1
BackImage[3][0][0][0][0]=images/1950shops.1.3
--
# 4-story Shops & Offices. not an industry, but uses common images with the Department store
Obj=building
Name=WL_IND_50_03
copyright=Kieron & WLindley
type=com
chance=50
Level=20
intro_year=1950
retire_year=2030
needs_ground=1
dims=1,1,4
BackImage[2][0][0][0][0]=images/1950shops.1.0
BackImage[1][0][0][0][0]=images/1950shops.4.2
BackImage[0][0][0][0][0]=images/1950shops.4.3
BackImage[3][0][0][0][0]=images/1950shops.1.3
--

Ahh, extra city buildings - excellent! However - I think that there would be much value in having a "convenience shop" that sells the same things as the supermarket but in much smaller quantity. I have slightly adapted by re-colouring the images at 4.6 and 4.7 to give that effect: see the attached .png files.

Offline wlindley us

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #64 on: February 12, 2011, 04:25:47 PM »
james -- a perfectly splendid idea!  And one I shall tackle post haste.

Do you think there would be an adverse effect upon industry chain creation, with adding a small consumer shop? 

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #65 on: February 12, 2011, 04:48:24 PM »
I should hope not: if it works properly, there should just be more small shops to producers than there are large shops to producers.

Offline wlindley us

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #66 on: February 13, 2011, 03:28:19 PM »
Updated 1950 shops image, new convenience.dat, playable convenience.pak, and also modified cattle-field to have five different views here.

Looking forward to comments.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #67 on: February 13, 2011, 03:34:50 PM »
Ahh, one thing that immediately strikes me about the 1950s shops graphic is that it replaces one of the existing city building graphics with the convenience shop graphic: the idea was that it was to be as well as, rather than instead of, the office at the bottom right with the blue sign outside.

Offline wlindley us

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #68 on: February 13, 2011, 06:46:15 PM »
Ah, right; hmm.  I had put the extra offices in the 1950shops graphic because there were spaces left; ideally, the offices should be in their own graphic and dat files.  ((ponders))

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Re: City Buildings
« Reply #69 on: February 13, 2011, 07:41:29 PM »
You could just use your original image plus the image that I uploaded (using the generic back of shop/office images for the rear rotations)? That is what I had originally intended when making the additional graphic.