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Offline Zeno

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Big Ships
« on: October 04, 2008, 02:39:41 PM »
I've been making some experiments, mixing my "Big Planes" techniques with ships  ;)
This one has been done with with 254px captures (note it means to be 397 meters long).

PS: I think I'll need bigger docks (the crane looks nice!), and bigger depot window!
PS2: Why is the tonnage modified? I promise in the DAT file I wrote 170,974t. Where does those 39,902t comes from?

Offline Zeno

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2008, 05:42:45 PM »
Anyway, here's the pak for the Emma Maersk. Available from 8/2006.
Current capacity: 1400 crates.
RC: 80 cr/km.
Happy sailing ;D

Offline VS

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2008, 07:18:13 PM »
Oooh. Very nice. One particular thing to change before including anything like this in official releases is disallowing these giants on artificial waterways...

PS: The tonnage is different due to overflow. Convert 170974 to binary, truncate to last 16 bits and voila, 39902 :)

Offline prissi

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2008, 07:53:43 PM »
Using some x and y offset to center them on a pak128 may help to allieviate some of the biggest graphical issues connecting with those giants.

Offline VS

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2008, 08:22:18 PM »
I guess Zeno already used them on some views.

The problem is that a ocean ship like this doesn't belong to canals - and with its size it looks plain horrible in turns, no matter what.

Offline Zeno

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2008, 10:30:31 AM »
The problem is that a ocean ship like this doesn't belong to canals - and with its size it looks plain horrible in turns, no matter what.
Oh yes, it would be great to restrict to enter canals or not, even restricting minimum dock size or similar, but I guess it's not possible by now... Anyway, if you don't tell it to sail into canals... it won't do by itself!  ;)

PS: For the tonnage, I think I will limit the tonnage to 65000t and use gear about 0.4

Offline ariarinen

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2008, 11:12:11 AM »
Oh yes, it would be great to restrict to enter canals or not, even restricting minimum dock size or similar, but I guess it's not possible by now... Anyway, if you don't tell it to sail into canals... it won't do by itself!  ;)

PS: For the tonnage, I think I will limit the tonnage to 65000t and use gear about 0.4
Very nice boat, but it can travel true canals it takes the Suez canal on it trip to China form Europe, it would be kinda a stupid to take the de tour down to South African and take the risk at Cape Agulhas. But if you look at the Knock Nevis then Emma Maersk is quite small. 

MS Oasis of the Seas or MS Freedom of the Seas would be nice to have as well.   

Edit: It seems to be very pricey   ::) But I think I can save some by having just four of them instead of 40 smaller  ;D
« Last Edit: October 05, 2008, 11:20:49 AM by ariarinen »

Offline VS

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2008, 11:27:58 AM »
We're not talking Suez, rather canals like these:
http://www.jim-shead.com/waterways/Inland-Waterways-of-England.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Pontcysyllte_aqueduct_arp.jpg

Since we do have canal bridges, and while current ships in 128 can use them and not look that bad, differentiation between seafaring craft and inland barges et al would be good.

Offline Zeno

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2008, 11:45:35 AM »
lol... For a moment I had the image of the Emma Maersk stucked on that bridge ;D

Offline ariarinen

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2008, 01:08:47 PM »
We're not talking Suez, rather canals like these:
http://www.jim-shead.com/waterways/Inland-Waterways-of-England.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Pontcysyllte_aqueduct_arp.jpg

Since we do have canal bridges, and while current ships in 128 can use them and not look that bad, differentiation between seafaring craft and inland barges et al would be good.
Ah, I don't see dose as canals rather small waterways  ;D. But have to try that I has to look quite cool, but the simutarns canals has to be quite big as well is every square is 1 KM or so. 

Edit: Yeah it did not go so well the ship did take the high way and it did even fly   ::)
« Last Edit: October 05, 2008, 01:14:52 PM by ariarinen »

Offline VS

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2008, 02:40:29 PM »
Heh. Perhaps I went too far with these links, but I couldn't find anything better at that point.

I'd love to see ships like this in 128, too, but the requirements are quite a lot higher than for planes - these need just a wider runway and that's all in most cases.

Offline Zeno

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2008, 02:49:45 PM »
Unfortunately, I agree with you: too many changes needed for these ships... I'll better try with smaller ships or maybe get back to my planes for a while ::)

Offline DirrrtyDirk

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2008, 03:06:34 PM »
I like the idea. (I had already thought of trying something like myself one day). And I don't really see a problem with canals - any player who uses this type of ship on a canal (simutrans, not suez  ;) ) deserves what he gets, IMO  ;D.

Offline VS

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2008, 03:08:13 PM »
Well, I am not fundamentally opposed to their existence... it's just... dunno.

Offline DirrrtyDirk

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2008, 03:34:21 PM »
Well not everything that exists needs to be part of the official pakset. There's always the status "addon". Sometimes we tend to forget that.  ;)

Offline VS

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2008, 03:36:34 PM »
Of course, that's what I meant! No going official before they can be restricted to sea, otherwise do what you want :D

Offline ariarinen

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2008, 03:47:54 PM »
Unfortunately, I agree with you: too many changes needed for these ships... I'll better try with smaller ships or maybe get back to my planes for a while ::)
Yeah, the planes are much more fun, and they are much better then the pak planes so.

I like the idea. (I had already thought of trying something like myself one day). And I don't really see a problem with canals - any player who uses this type of ship on a canal (simutrans, not suez  ;) ) deserves what he gets, IMO  ;D.
I was not economical as a canal ship either I had to small margins just 50 %, but it was kinda cool seeing it driving and flying on the high way.  

Offline VS

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2008, 03:50:50 PM »
You can almost imagine those simu-people, eyeing the monstrous hull over their heads: first those giant planes, now they even put ships into air... hope there isn't bug and the bridge doesn't fall... ;D

Offline DirrrtyDirk

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2008, 04:05:36 PM »
Getting a bit off-topic, but in Germany there's a ship builder (famous for Cruise Ships), the Meyer Werft, that actually isn't even located near the coast, but inland on a rather small river. I've seen it on TV - it looks really weird when a huge cruise ships is driving through grassland plains...

Picture from http://www.meyerwerft.de/page.asp?lang=d&main=3&subs=0&did=1498

I guess in simutrans that'd become even more extreme - i.e. the ship eventually being wider than the canal/river...  :D

Offline ariarinen

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2008, 12:46:53 PM »
Getting a bit off-topic, but in Germany there's a ship builder (famous for Cruise Ships), the Meyer Werft, that actually isn't even located near the coast, but inland on a rather small river. I've seen it on TV - it looks really weird when a huge cruise ships is driving through grassland plains...

Picture from http://www.meyerwerft.de/page.asp?lang=d&main=3&subs=0&did=1498

I guess in simutrans that'd become even more extreme - i.e. the ship eventually being wider than the canal/river...  :D
Meyer Weft dose mostly roll on/roll off ferries they are not so big, but it can't be that hard to drive it when most new boats has ABB Azipod. And if you compare them to the ships built in Turku Finland then they are quite small, but there is much greater room but the water is quite shallow and full small islands.
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/4690530

Offline DirrrtyDirk

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2008, 02:38:49 PM »
Meyer Weft dose mostly roll on/roll off ferries they are not so big, but it can't be that hard to drive it when most new boats has ABB Azipod.

And if you compare them to the ships built in Turku Finland then they are quite small,

Comparing the ships on both pictures... yes you are right: ~315m instead of ~339m length and ~37m instead of ~38.5m beam is so much smaller! It's by far not as impressive to see these on a small river than the vastly bigger Finnish ships...  ::)

And in case you didn't notice: this was not about the overall size (I never said they were the biggest) but about relative size to the river - never even saying that this was the only place or the worst ratio between ship size and river size. I just gave one example. Which was BTW linked to the discussion about ships in simutrans looking too big for simutrans canals.

And at least on the wikipedia shiplist (just a selection, but none the less) for Meyer Werft there are over 20 Cruise ships mentioned and just one ferry (judging by the names of ships and companies, I haven't looked them up) - so claiming that they do "mostly roll on/roll off ferries" (and even if they did, it wouldn't change the fact that they build quite a number of fairly large cruise ships as well) is probably a bit off the mark.


Offline ariarinen

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2008, 05:03:38 PM »
Comparing the ships on both pictures... yes you are right: ~315m instead of ~339m length and ~37m instead of ~38.5m beam is so much smaller! It's by far not as impressive to see these on a small river than the vastly bigger Finnish ships...  ::)

And in case you didn't notice: this was not about the overall size (I never said they were the biggest) but about relative size to the river - never even saying that this was the only place or the worst ratio between ship size and river size. I just gave one example. Which was BTW linked to the discussion about ships in simutrans looking too big for simutrans canals.

And at least on the wikipedia shiplist (just a selection, but none the less) for Meyer Werft there are over 20 Cruise ships mentioned and just one ferry (judging by the names of ships and companies, I haven't looked them up) - so claiming that they do "mostly roll on/roll off ferries" (and even if they did, it wouldn't change the fact that they build quite a number of fairly large cruise ships as well) is probably a bit off the mark.


I did not see the 315 meters ship but now I have, but if you see most of them are 290-295 meters. The biggest ship class in Turku are 360 meters and the beam is 47 meters and 8 Wärtsilä V12 Engines  :o. So the build those in Papenburg and the smaller ships in Rostock, I would do the opposite.

They have added the cruise ships, later in the 80's but they are well known for there roll on/roll off ferries like Silja Europa to name one. The wiki list are quite incomplete   ::)
   

Offline DirrrtyDirk

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2008, 05:11:02 PM »
Yes, but even "only" 290-295m is a very large ship if you happen to encounter it on a small river more than 30km away from the sea, isn't it? And that's what this was all about.  ;)

Offline ariarinen

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2008, 03:02:34 PM »
Yes, but even "only" 290-295m is a very large ship if you happen to encounter it on a small river more than 30km away from the sea, isn't it? And that's what this was all about.  ;)
Yes it might be, but the worst part has to be to get it in to the river as its only around 50 meters wide while its around 100 meters most of the way or more. I think it was a huge task before but most new ships pods so they can maneuver much easier. I think it would be more impressive to see it on the autobahn  like it did in the game ::)      

Offline VS

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2008, 05:34:12 PM »
Anyone tried this puppy in 64? I did :D



… how about some pak32…

Offline Zeno

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2008, 07:16:31 PM »
Anyone tried this puppy in 64? I did :D
OOOOMG!!  :o
… how about some pak32…
Pak32 mantainers will complain if you try to get THAT into the poor little pak... ;D

Offline VS

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2008, 08:15:45 PM »
In 32 you could fit a small city on the deck. Or an airport and make it a carrier :D

Offline Zeno

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2008, 09:32:49 PM »
 :-\ Mmmm... I'll better get back to my excel ;D

Offline EdiBola

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2009, 01:11:00 AM »
 Where can I find this blue terminal to 128?

Offline VS

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2009, 08:41:54 AM »
Sorry, it's only in pak64.

Offline EdiBola

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2009, 10:05:06 PM »
=//////////

We have a few things about ships to 128,a few days ago I've found the Emma Maersk to 128 and a super oil tanker,but only this.

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2009, 02:16:28 PM »
Can Emma Maersk be the super oil tanker?

Offline Zeno

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2009, 02:24:34 PM »
You can find the Emma Maersk at the first page of this topic.
The Batillus Supertanker can be found here: http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=867.0
Probably there will be newer versions, as well as new ships, but at the moment I've got other things in the todo list :(

Offline EdiBola

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2009, 12:56:50 AM »
Yes I have this two ships,but I want to find new ships and terminals and is very hardous to find this.

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2009, 05:10:17 AM »
Thanks very much Zeno =]

Edibola:
I agree with you
I think there should be a bigger dock for Emma :P

Offline EdiBola

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #35 on: September 16, 2009, 01:45:30 AM »
Yes,I like so much ships and always I look for new things about this,but is more easy to find trains and buses,ship is a very important kind of transportation,and we have a litle about this.

Offline Fabio

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #36 on: September 16, 2009, 11:08:19 AM »
I think there should be a bigger dock for Emma :P

there used to be bigger docks in game (i remember them, just i can't recall either they were for pak 128 or 64). They were much longer (2, 3 or even 4 tiles). We should make new ones (they were from MHz, IIRC).

Offline LNBC

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2009, 10:31:16 AM »
fabio, those longer docks are in Pak 64. (Can be longer to 4 tiles with a crane for containers...)
Would anyone get the Pak 128 version pak-ed and making them official for those Pak 64 standard docks did?

PS I also wonder with ships, but I prefer ships in a convoy...
(or if the Makeobj supported, ships with mixed cargo types-
Cooled goods can be also loaded on a container(boxed goods) ship...I suppose.)

(After beloved Vilvoh's post: Yes, sure, can do it that way-but it could be done by coding works-
making the ships linked in a convoy--like cars of a train--tested with successful outcomes.)
« Last Edit: September 17, 2009, 10:46:50 AM by LNBC »

Offline vilvoh

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #38 on: September 17, 2009, 10:38:28 AM »
PS I also wonder with ships, but I prefer ships in a convoy...
(or if the Makeobj supported, ships with mixed cargo types.

You can already do this using barges, can't you?

Offline Fabio

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #39 on: September 17, 2009, 10:45:27 AM »
yes, you can! :)

Offline vilvoh

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #40 on: September 17, 2009, 11:22:38 AM »
(After beloved Vilvoh's post: Yes, sure, can do it that way-but it could be done by coding works-
making the ships linked in a convoy--like cars of a train--tested with successful outcomes.)

Sojo made some tests for pak96 in that sense, dividing a big ship into several parts and coding them as a gigant ship, so I guess you could make something similar in the graphic part. Indeed, you can paint several small ships and link them as a convoy through the dat file constraints.

On the other hand, I think it's already possible to create ships with mixed cargo types, coding the extra units of the convoy as hidden units, similar to what is done with the passenger and mail ships. The problem is that they appear at the shipyard menu.

Offline EdiBola

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2009, 12:26:15 AM »
In really the full container vessels can transport dry goods into the container boxes and cooled goods into the reefer containers.So I think ,is necessary a ship that can transport this two kind of goods.

<-----Like this

I see in a video of the simutrans PAK 64 a wonderful blue docks with cranes to container,we do not have this one to 128?

Offline ariarinen

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2009, 04:08:36 PM »
there used to be bigger docks in game (i remember them, just i can't recall either they were for pak 128 or 64). They were much longer (2, 3 or even 4 tiles). We should make new ones (they were from MHz, IIRC).
I combine 100's of small docks to form one large dock. Compared to them Emma looks small or like in real life 

Offline ariarinen

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2009, 05:15:41 PM »
How about adding the GTS Finnjet, it was the fastest, longest and largest car ferry in the world and only one powered by gas turbines.

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2009, 05:14:46 PM »
Ships like the GTS Finnjet are interesting, sure. Did you paint it already?

At the moment there are 7 passenger ships with a capacity of 1000+, mostly fuel driven. Starting from 1911 or so. Then there are another 4 passenger ships: 2 Sailing ships (60 & 212 Pass), 1 steamer (310) and 1 Hovermarine (200). Imo the coolest ships you could paint are smaller fuel driven ferries (50 - 1000 passengers). These ferries would really help to connect sights on small Islands, or production sites, or smaller connections.

Offline ariarinen

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #45 on: December 08, 2009, 05:58:53 PM »
Ships like the GTS Finnjet are interesting, sure. Did you paint it already?

At the moment there are 7 passenger ships with a capacity of 1000+, mostly fuel driven. Starting from 1911 or so. Then there are another 4 passenger ships: 2 Sailing ships (60 & 212 Pass), 1 steamer (310) and 1 Hovermarine (200). Imo the coolest ships you could paint are smaller fuel driven ferries (50 - 1000 passengers). These ferries would really help to connect sights on small Islands, or production sites, or smaller connections.
Nope, I don't paint I come with ideas  :D

Yeah smaller ships do come in handy, their might be some smaller ships as addons.

Offline Rebelfish

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #46 on: December 19, 2010, 09:38:01 PM »
Quote
Ah, I don't see dose as canals rather small waterways  ;D. But have to try that I has to look quite cool, but the simutarns canals has to be quite big as well is every square is 1 KM or so. 

Yeah, but it's not really 1 KM.  I mean unless every rail car is up to 500 meters long.

Offline greenling

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #47 on: December 22, 2010, 06:40:46 PM »
thanks for the big Ship!

greenling

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall us

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #48 on: December 22, 2010, 07:14:21 PM »
Yeah, but it's not really 1 KM.  I mean unless every rail car is up to 500 meters long.

There are [at least] two simultaneous scales in Simutrans. Tiles are, indeed, 1km square, in some senses - mainly the distances between towns, factories, etc.

But graphically, of course, they are much more like 10-15m or so square.

Offline Václav

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #49 on: December 22, 2010, 09:24:18 PM »
There are [at least] two simultaneous scales in Simutrans. Tiles are, indeed, 1km square, in some senses - mainly the distances between towns, factories, etc.
Only in basic game. In Experimental it is free - tied on config files, if I am not wrong. But I play only basic game.

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall us

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #50 on: December 22, 2010, 10:15:04 PM »
Even if that's true, this is the pak128 board, so it is irrelevant.

Offline Spike

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #51 on: December 23, 2010, 01:04:52 PM »
Originally the idea was to have two scales. One for sizes, and one for distances.

On the distance scale, a square is about 1km²
On the size scale, a square was meant to be about 20m²

To close the logical gap, a building on a square was meant to represent a quarter or block of buildings, but represented by a single object - so it could still span a distance of 1km, while being shown as a 20m wide building.

But it was never this clearly told in the game.

Also, vehicles were shorter than in real, since two had to fit on a square behind each other. In comparison to buildings they were bigger to reflect their importance to the player. It was not meant so seriously to be true in scales and sizes, but rather to work well as a game ...

I'd encourage pak makers and developers to do it this way, too. Don't be too strict with sizes and scales. Be sure that it plays well, and looks good. A game can look good without being true in scales, and I'd even say it plays better if the size of objects is made to work well in the game, not if it is made to be "realistic".

Offline EdiBola

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Re: Big Ships
« Reply #52 on: July 29, 2013, 09:15:32 PM »
Another important observation, in my point of view, its about the necessity of the use of ships. Because, in the real world, ships are the most important vehicle used to transport all kinds of goods, due the quantity and the low cost of transportation, but in the game, a most part of the people prefers to use trains.


If the people have a two island and a big distance, they build a bigger brigde to use train.I think it a most part of the gamers loves trains, like me too, but in the really is impossible to transport goods between Japan and Brazil for example by trains, it is mandatory to use ships, and big ships to have a low cost.


And another thing too is about the depth, becouse the Emma Maersk in the game ,for example, can get inside a smmal river or waterway, but in the real world this ships can operate with a limited numbers of harbous, I think its can be good to the game a restriction of navigation according the depth.