Some general thoughts about Public Service

[Lawyer]

Greetings, simuplayers!

I was thinking about the general role of the PS in simutrans and I want to know what people here have to say about it. IMO,  this thread provided very interesting ideas, although the network is the mainstream of that discussion. I wanna talk here about some other things on the issue of the PS.

When I talk about PS as a player, in the real meaning of the term, i'm talking about it's role as a government. I know it could be a huge difference in what a government do in a liberal or in a interventionist vision of it, but I think that there is some attributes that are common to both, and that is the point that I want to get.

First of all, I know we are talking about a simulation game. Despite no simulation can be perfect in the attempt of reproduce the reality, they tend to get more and more complex in this attempt. Simutrans is no exception. While some can lost it's own objectives in this process, abandoning playability and friendly approach, I think simutrans has no risk of be one of those 'lost games', because the project has a clear compromise with it's players/developers.

Said that, I've to say that it's hard to see a transport company running both the transport service itself and the facilities required to it. British Airways, American Airlines and Lufthansa run their planes through it's routes, but don't run the airports where the routes are based. Same can be said about companies of passenger trains, buses and ships.

In almost all cases, the facilities (central train and bus stations, ports and airports) are managed by an authority (a public or private one) that don't have anything with the transport service itself. Both this services (the transport and the management of the facilities) are 'public services', in the mean that they are key services to the community and have to be accessible to all people. In this view, public stations (to trains, planes, ships, etc) are not public because they're owned by the government, but because they are open to all passengers and companies (provided the last ones have the licences and all the stuff that bureaucracy seems to love). Of course its not possible, neither desirable (neither funny too), to emulate the bureaucratic part of the government, but I'm just saying that I think PS has a lot more to do beyond place industries and cities.

Freight is a different matter, although the separated management of transport and its facilities also apply to the major hubs (port of Rotterdam, for instance). Freighter companies sometimes run cargo bays when they transport goods (like iron ore and soy beans) directly to the buyer, but major hubs are shared by the transport companies. Each one maintain hangars or warehouses on it in order to assist its logistic, but it's an entire different matter of maintain the whole port/airport.

I know I can control PS and open this public facilities by myself, but i'm talking about a simulation game, which implies in that the player can focus on playing with its company. May be interesting if that the AI, sooner or latter, was able to do this kind of thing.

Ok, I think this initial post is long enough to start. What you people have to say about what we may call 'a complex emulation of PS'??

PS: I don't know if this thread is in the right place, but I couldn't think in a best one. I think moderation can help me with it.

[prissi]

Do not guess from your situation on anything else.

Port were owned by cities for a long time.

Stations were all private (and at least Amtrack still operates its stations, as far as I know). After Nationalisation in Europe at the beginning of last century, there are almost no private stuff left (just starting recently in UK or germany).

However, translated to simutrans terms it would mean you are not allow to play with railways from 1900 to 1980 or so, since railway company as well as stations were nationalized ...

Airplanes are not a good example. Did you know Lufthansa own only 2 planes (two oldtimers). All other planes are rental.

Simutrans is about freedom of play. You can make your stations public, but you are not forced to do so.

[Lawyer]

I'm not guessing.

Transportation is a strategic issue. This explains why public administration is always so close of it. Maybe Amtrak own it's stations, but did you know Amtrak is an state-owned corporation? To me it's 'funny' to see a huge state-monopolistic-company prospering in the land of liberalism, but political things may sometimes be as funny as seeing private banks pleading help to government.

I'm not talking about 'nationalization' of the transport service. It'll simple disallow the game, or, at least, it's funny. What I'm trying to do is to offer an different view of the emulation of the game. I think it's not even a suggestion, but rather a "what if..." discussion type. Maybe this discussion can bring us some useful ideas, maybe not, but we'll not know if we not discuss. IMO.

There is not that prevent that human companies in the game can be seeing as private companies with a public concession to do its business or as a public company controlled by the human. This last approach could explain things like companies being free to put their stations everywhere, while the first one can explain their 'ability' to go bankrupt. For some people, this degree of emulation of the reality doesn't matter, while for others it can be a increase in the fun, but, as I said before, i think it's rather a discussion about the game then a suggestion of changes, as changes in this level can represent a risk (they can succeed in adding fun to the game, or they can throw it's fun away).

About planes: they're expensive. MUCH expensive. This is one of the reasons why air companies don't buy it. Other reason is that technology changes (and, by this, depreciation of the planes prices) are faster then the turnover. Leasing planes are a solution to this that may be not relevant to the game, 'cause the turnover here can make the planes cost well worthily. This, however, don't nullify what i've said about air companies not owning its own airports. But then you can say that, as with planes, the turnover in the game can make airport owning well worthily. If you say that, I guess you are right, but then we turn to what I think can be the mainstream of the discussion here: what is the desirable degree of reality in the simulation? What is funny to emulate and what is not? How to increase reality levels (in what is possible to the developers) without messing with the fun?

Simutrans is about freedom of play. You can make your stations public, but you are not forced to do so.

I agree. But Simutrans is about simulation and fun, too. Simulation means it's base on reality, but also means its incapacity to reach perfection on the emulation of reality. And I guess (here i'm really guessing) fun means the reasonable moderation between the degree of reality simulation and the easy playability.

I'm not saying that I'm not happy with the degree of reality in Simutrans. I like Simutrans as i've never liked other transport simulation game. But can't we think on an even funnier game (supposing that adding some more complexity will be funny, but this may not be the case; again, it's only a discussion)?

[prissi]

I think, you maybe better propose this idea to experimental, as realism there is the aim.

[Lawyer]

I think you are right, prissi. I'll place a link to this post on a new one on the experimental. Should mod lock this one?

[KneeOn]

It depends on what mood i'm in but the OP does highlight some things I do.

If i'm in a lazy mood, nearly all my railway tracks, and routes to the centre of large cities which need buildings destroyed are done by PS. Given the way I play (loadsa money where it doesn't matter about losing money for a decade or two while i set up a huge network) using PS for me doesn't kill the fun because the fun is in getting a large network.

But the restrictions having realistic PS/government player would for me kill the fun. Being able to move the lines to where I want them, build the cities etc where I want to link to is even more fun than just managing the network. It's just about how you play I guess. I'd make for an interesting option though.