Auto-terraforming

[Fabio]

I have been thinking of this request for a while.

When building a way, you could build it straight through a slope and if start tile and end tile have the same height, artificial slopes (at their cost) are automatically built, saving time and many clicks to the player.

e.g.:

[Ashley]

Good idea, though one wrong click and this could become expensive!

[vilvoh]

I support it.

[Fabio]

one wrong click and this could become expensive!

This (new) behaviour could be triggered by pressing CTRL.



And it could be extended (still using CTRL) to auto-build bridges, tunnels and, especially, trenches/ways on relief.
The choice between, say, tunnel or trench should be given by the difference between a tunnel tile and terraforming+way building (also considering objects like buildings which could prevent digging a trench and the fact that a trench shouldn't be deeper than one tile).

As a general rule, I would say:
1- click: build the cheapest (i.e. without terraforming) connection between tile A and tile B, also going uphill/downhill
2- CTRL+click: build the "best" connection between tile A and tile B, using terraforming and/or bridges and tunnels, trying to minimize height difference (i.e. only the height difference between tile A and tile B), no matter the cost.

e.g.
1 (click)

2 (CTRL+click)

[IgorEliezer]

I think I'll quit playing Simutrans. It's becoming too much sophisticated.  

EDIT:

ALLCAPS in topic title scratches my eyes. Fabio wouldn't mind if I changed it, would he?

[Ashley]

I think I'll quit playing Simutrans. It's becoming too much sophisticated. 

I agree actually, part of the challenge of the game is planning a route and building bridges/tunnels etc. to keep it level. This would make it very easy to construct routes, but we don't want to make it *too* easy.

[Fabio]

Keeping a track level as much as possible is one of the things i like the best in ST.
On the other hand, i feel raising/lowering the slopes one-by-one too similar to micromanagement we all dislike.
If this proposal were implemented, the challenge of finding a good route (straight enough, but connecting as many cities as possible) would remain unchanged, only it would save a lot of click-click-click-click and changing many times the tool you're using...
Besides, i don't see it so difficult to implement. Bridges are already used for startup intercity connections. Tunnels would be alike, but they could also be left out. Auto-terraforming would make much more intuitive and straightforward cornering reliefs and digging trenches using slopes (presently a real pain).

[Dwachs]

Besides, i don't see it so difficult to implement.

This claim needs to be proven

[sdog]

Could reduce the hurdle for new players quite a bit.

It is also quite challenging to implement, this usually attracts a certain coder who already noticed this thread :-P

How does this look from a performance perspective, a new degree of freedom can be quite nasty in way finding?

[skreyola]

I like this idea, but I hope when it is implemented, some means (that described earlier or another one) of making the current behavior usable should be included, for those times when you want the cheapest rout instead of the straightest.

[Dwachs]

How does this look from a performance perspective, a new degree of freedom can be quite nasty in way finding?

I think it is more nastier to identify the degrees of freedom and the constraints on them.

[Václav]

This idea looks interesting and would be nice if it was implemented but - it is needed to limit this feature very drastically to it could be really helpful.

Oh.. this is acceptable to me:

but this not

... and why? Because I would like to build quite else bridge and quite else tunnel, for example.

[Fabio]

Because I would like to build quite else bridge and quite else tunnel, for example.

actually this auto builder would choose the closest matching bridge and tunnel and anyway one could still use the traditional way builder, just don't press ctrl.

[prissi]

The waybuilder can use tunnels and stuff. It is just disabled, since it did not get the expected results. The AI uses this waybuilder, and it really rarely builds tunnels. Expect a terraforming waybuilder not much cleverer only 10x slower.

The only thing that would not very difficult is bridge, tunnel cut type straight line terraforming. It would only be very expensive ...

[An_dz]

May I ask why it choosed to build a bridge and not terraformed the terrain?

Those problem appear with this kind of tool. I think that adding ability to auto create a bridge and tunnel is cool but terraforming may quit.

[Fabio]

Given the fact that this is a mockup, if the bridge tile is less expensive than terraforming+way, the bridge is chosen.
Terraforming is still done to allow bridge start on the right slope.
If I had to put a priority order (also considering real life), i would put first slope terraforming, then bridge, then trench (using slopes), then tunnel.
And from a realistic point of view, i would favour trenches but not raising, which would close a valley, as in the given example.

[arnoud]

I Support but,

actually this auto builder would choose the closest matching bridge and tunnel and anyway one could still use the traditional way builder, just don't press ctrl.

Ctrl + click give now a straight line, and accept also slopes. May by is shift+ctrl+click better for this.

[gauthier]

Very interesting idea

next step : the game builds you network automatically so you don't have to build rails anymore

[Dwachs]

just play as AI then ...

[Václav]

Full agreement, Dwachs.

If this feature will help to correct one a little incomprehensive behaviour of building, then it is okay - but as I wrote few post ago, it should be very limited.

And what incomprehensive behaviour I talk? That when I decided to build very long two or more tracked corridor, I cannot do it in one step (or more in case of more than two tracks, of course) - because game will connect both tracks after some tiles (I think less than ten).

[gauthier]

because game will connect both tracks after some tiles (I think less than ten).

press ctrl when building and your way will be built straight.

[sdog]

I Support but,

Ctrl + click give now a straight line, and accept also slopes. May by is shift+ctrl+click better for this.

Ctrl alone would work already, if the start and end tile that is clicked is on a different level, the track is built in a straight line that goes up a slope (can also fix irregular slopes).

If start and end tile are on the same level, the builder cuts through terrain.

I was really stupid before, there's no route finding anyway, since it is a straight line!

[VS]

Somehow I can already see another request, magical track builder that optimizes the route and costs.

[Dwachs]

Magic is the key here 

[jamespetts]

Given the fact that this is a mockup, if the bridge tile is less expensive than terraforming+way, the bridge is chosen.

What if the bridge is cheaper to build, but the terraforming will pay for itself in 5 years with lower maintenance costs? Or 10 years? Or 50 years...?

[sdog]

If a player wants something special, it has to built manually. Perhaps the cost argument should not play a role at all, it's up to the pak-set anyway. Let aesthetical/plausible criteria rule, if it is at a hilside build an artificial slope, if it is crossing a depression of one square or more a bridge. fabio's mockup fits quite well.

[An_dz]

[...]if it is at a hilside build an artificial slope, if it is crossing a depression of one square or more a bridge. fabio's mockup fits quite well.

if it have water(river, lake, sea) it builds a bridge.

[gauthier]

Somehow I can already see another request, magical track builder that optimizes the route and costs.

Then ... the player hasn't to think anymore ... where is the pleasure of building a way ?

[IgorEliezer]

I suspect some people here have been playing SimCity and MMOs too much.

Player: *click* *click*

Game: *build all stuff up*

Player: WOW!!! Awesome!

[greenling]

There idea it´s good but then be needed we a Window how you can chose the
speed of the ways,bridge and tunnels.
And for the buildprice and the build agrements!

greenling