Questions about trolleybuses balance

[gwalch]

I am painting some new trolleybuses for the pak128, and have some difficulties to balance them. Existing trolleybuses are surprising :
- The cost is the same for most of them (3600 c for Skoda 8, 21, 22, 24, 25, Tatras...)
- gear is always 300%, not balanced at all !
- passengers levels are often the same
- but running cost change, i don't know on which parameter ?
For exemple : Skoda 19 (available 1985-2005) cost 10800, like Skoda 23 (available 1998-no retire), they both transport 368 passengers, go at 65 km/h, have 720x3 kWh power, what is the justification for bigger running cost for skoda 23 ?
For comparaison, i calculed running cost per passenger (running cost x100 / passengers level). Differences are huge !
- Skoda 19 (too cheap i think) : 0,326
- Skoda 23 : 0,359 ... Skoda 21 (available for the same period) : 0,849 !!!
- Skoda 10 (most expensive) : 1,054
With these big differences, i don't know how place my troleybuses...

[Zeno]

Trolleybuses have not been balanced. The only thing I can tell you is to balance it like a bus, then lower its running cost about... let's say 15 to 20%, because of needs an expensive infrastructure to run (electrification). If you want to tune it better, you can just use the try-error technique: start a game with 2 big cities, and transport the pax between both town halls; that will give you a constant pax fluxe. Check out the running costs, manteinance and profit, and try to adjust the payback to 3-5 years.

[Václav]

Gwalch, most Škoda trolleybuses were, of course, based on real ones as more as it is possible. So this is question for TommPa9 and also VS - because he made some final improves before their including into pak128.

I don't care of balancing much - but those quite expensive ones make money easier if they can go on long lines with many (often full) stations.

[Zeno]

Well, I would say I am quite authorised to answer, but anyway, consider everybody that *all* trolley buses might be rebalanced from the scratch before next release, unless there's an importan opposition to that. Same applies to trams and monorail vehicles, despite those two won't suffer big changes I guess.

Btw, at first sight, trolley buses cost should be raised almost 5 times, their running cost reviewed and their power might change (gear): dunno if it is intended all having gear=300 or not, but I hope someone can give me an explanation about that soon

[Lmallet]

Hehe, I wonder how my current game will look like after the rebalance.  Since trolleybuses are so cheap, they make up half my network.

But yes, a rebalance is needed.  Pak128 is supposed to be hard, right? 

[Zeno]

AFAIK there's been some work on that. If it was me, I would keep it hard, but I guess at the moment is sometimes not hard but insane

[VS]

Ah, the case of insanely high gear. There's a trivial explanation, Watson...

High gear itself should make trolleybuses superior in hills. Since they can't pull anything, it has smaller effect than gear for trucks or locomotives. There it translates directly to usable load and thus also to value of vehicle. So, it's far more important there, which is why you think it is such a big deal here. Anyway, given low top speeds, trolleybuses are not a definitive cure.

Numbers apart from gear were virtually untouched, I think.

[Zeno]

I guess a trolley should be more expensive than a regular diesel bus, shouldn't it? Btw, I've taken a quick look and seems to be something like:
- Cost of 3k to 5k for a regular 100 capacity trolley
- Cost of 5k to 9k for a regular 60-70 capacity diesel bus

As a general idea, I would propose the following parameters for balancing them:
- Raise costs to reach around 10k to 15k, considering their high capacity and electric stuff
- Keep running costs around 15% less than regular buses (infrastructure maintenance compensation)

Any other ideas, impressions?

[VS]

I agree with the higher cost, and RC-15% sounds reasonable, too. Do as you see fit - you're the royal balancer here

[Zeno]

you're the royal balancer here

ooops, I almost forgot that
I'll take a look this week and post results here.