Little Suggestion for spacing

[wlindley]

do i understand correctly that, given a vehicle of capacity 10 with overcrowded capacity of 2, that 100% waits for 10 before departing?  If I choose 150% without a time limitation, would that vehicle ever depart? (10+2 = 12 is less than 150% of 10)

[Carl]

Correct: it would never depart. Values over the total overcrowded capacity should not be used without a time/spacing restriction.

[jamespetts]

One observation that I should make, incidentally, is that the overcrowded capacity of many rail vehicles in Pak128.Britain-Ex is 50% the normal capacity, making the vehicles' total capacity 150% of their normal capacity. Does this affect your choice of 150% as the maximum load value?

[Carl]

 Ah - yes, in that case the maximum value will need to be higher. What do you think would be high enough to cover all scenarios? I think 200% should cover it.

[jamespetts]

Be careful with even 200% - there are some "standee" buses (the AEC Swift and the Mercedes Citaro K) that have more standing than seated capacity...

[mwoodburn81]

what about a value of "∞%"?

[ӔO]

I think the highest one is the 378 class, which does 32(80) and 34(85)
I don't think it's generally possible to pack more than 300%... but then again, there are places like india

[jamespetts]

Mwoodburn's suggestion might be a sensible one, although programming for it might be a tad more tricky. One can use the maximum possible value of an integer of the relevant type to denote an infinite capacity requirement.

[Junna]

I think the highest one is the 378 class, which does 32(80) and 34(85)
I don't think it's generally possible to pack more than 300%... but then again, there are places like india

Average rush-hour overcrowding is something in the vicinity 300% for Mumbai suburban services (on average), so I think 300% might be an upper limit; you can only fit so many people on the roof and stacked in the carriages. They have something like 1200 seats per 10-carriage unit, but rush-hour loads can get upwards 5,000 into one train.

[Carl]

So that would be just over 400% of total capacity. 400 sounds like a nice round figure which would account for almost all conceivable uses.

[el_slapper]

Parisian subways & suburban trains fit the 300% value, especially in times of strike. Or excessive cold. I've done my share of standing-travelling last weeks.

For the old little greys, there must be something like 80 places per wagon(4 times 20), and I'm sure I've seen more than 200 people standing in one signle one. Being one of them for 55 minutes was not fun. Most people are standing next to the 3 doors(I'd say at least 50 people per door), plus there is usually an invasion of the corridors(maybe 3 people standing for 5 seating). 250% overcrowding, that is.

for subways, I'm pretty sure it's even more, given the seats are slowly but surely replaced by space for standing passengers. Seats being scarce, overcrowding is immediately far more impressive.

[dannyman]

So ...

What the interface is doing these days is giving us options:

Wait until %%%
AND
Wait until mm:ss have passed
OR
Wait until spacing time reached

I think what people want is:

Wait until %%%
OR
Wait until mm:ss have passed
OR
Wait until spacing time reached

Not knowing the backend, I'm thinking it would be nice if the UI just let you set the options that way.

In some cases, you want to wait until spacing time, no exceptions.

In some cases, you want to wait until spacing time, or until the vehicle is full.

In some cases, maybe you wait until spacing time, but don't wait more than n minutes.

Just give us all three options on equal terms and let us pick those limitations which best suit our scheduling strategy.

Would people still want the ability to set 150% load or whatever if load was an optional parameter?

[Carl]

Hi dannyman,

Two things:

1. You're right that it would be good to be able to specify spacing without a maximum load. I should look into how difficult this would be to do.

2. We would still need maximum loads over 100%, so the patch under discussion here would still be necessary. Given that experimental allows overcrowded capacity, it should be possible to tell a convoy not to leave until completely full -- i.e. until it reaches overcrowded capacity -- rather than just waiting until all the seats are filled.

[Carl]

In the light of the discussion here, I've attached a new version of the patch which changes the value to 400% rather than 150%. (It's a one-liner, so there's probably no need for a patch file, but never mind.)


This should be sufficient for almost all of the extreme scenarios discussed above.