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Author Topic: 1870, no factories, stupid passengers?  (Read 3593 times)

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Offline lakehaze

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1870, no factories, stupid passengers?
« on: September 24, 2011, 02:22:47 AM »
Do paks affect gameplay, like technology release timeline and transfer behavior?
Is there a way to command multiple vehicles at once?
Why are there no factories on my map?
Why won't my passengers transfer to alternate routes?

I tried pak192.comic[EDITED],started a large 1024x512 map with industry chains = 8, attractions = 25, start date = 1870.

The map generated with 0 factories.  Without factories, I'm only building 'busses' (horse and carriages).  Somehow, I'm turning a profit.  I played through 1895 and still no factories, and still no other vehicles.

With only 6 passengers per carriage, it's hard to keep the stations from over crowding without hundreds of carriages clogging the streets.  And it really sucks having to manage each individual carriage.  If I could set lines, set-to-depot on multiple vehicles, it might start being fun.

The small cities are manageable, but the large city is in gridlock.  I tried setting up rail stations in a ring line around the city, but the passengers won't use it.  I have one bus shelter (64 cap) with 400 passengers waiting.  There is a 2-stop shuttle that connects it 4 tiles away to a small bus stop that is within the area of my rail station.  All my rail stations use a short distance, 2-stop shuttle to connect them to the cities main lines.  But the 400 passengers won't transfer to the rail station.  The train never picks up more than 7 passengers from that stop, and often runs empty.

I thought passengers were supposed to pick the optimum route. Waiting in a 400 queue hardly seems optimum.

« Last Edit: September 24, 2011, 03:01:17 PM by lakehaze »

Offline Severous

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Re: 1870, no factories, stupid passengers?
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2011, 02:03:44 PM »
I believe paks do play differently.

Ive played several paks but not pak192.toon.  In all the paks ive played it has been possible to set up 'lines'. By altering the line its possible to alter the routing of many hundreds of vehicles at a time.

The unsatisfactory factory spawning is what drove me away from this simulation and probably will again once ive had my fix for a few weeks. There's complex things governing spawning that results in many maps starting with incomplete chains yet then goes for years before adding scores of industries at the same time.

Passengers however act in a very logical way. Seem to always go where I want. One golden rule..they wont use two different vehicles if there is one that can do it. If you have one bus/coach serving all stops..they will wait for that no matter how overcrowded it gets, they wont use two vehicles.

Good luck


Offline lakehaze

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Re: 1870, no factories, stupid passengers?
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2011, 03:06:33 PM »
Thanks for the help.
Yeah, I use lines, and it helps, but I still find myself adding a dozen carriages at a time and it's quite cumbersome.

The 'golden rule' about passengers using 1 vehicle over 2 is probably what I'm running into.  I'll try overlapping routes next time.

I lowered the 'industry chain' value to 4 on a new map and generated some factories, but they are all grouped in one area of the map, making that vast other areas somewhat useless.

I guess I don't understand what 'industry chain' does.

Offline An_dz

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Re: 1870, no factories, stupid passengers?
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2011, 03:12:34 PM »
Do paks affect gameplay, like technology release timeline and transfer behavior?
Of course, I would say it affects 80% of the game. The vehicles and stops cost, amount of vehicles and stops to purchase, How much passenger a stop can hold, the maintenance cost, the number of different factories, what goods are produced, what type of freight this good is, etc. can be different from another pak.

Is there a way to command multiple vehicles at once?
Yes, there's the line management dialog, in the second set of button on the top bar you'll find it. I use it for all my vehicles. To add a line to an existing vehicle click on it, open schedule and on the Text Box choose the line. For new vehicles, when in the depot dialog, the second Text Box choose the line and then click the Assign Line button.

Why are there no factories on my map?
For pak192.toon you mean pak192.comic? If yes, I can say that you're using a too early time for this pak. For pak192.comic start with 1940 or more. This pak don't have that much features. Only from 1940 and on. Download the nightly build for this pak, it have more features implemented, here, you'll see pak192.comic links.
If you want to play from 1800 and on, download pak64 or pak128.Britain, pak128 only have a playable set of ships from 1870 and up, but it's only playable from 1910 and on.

Why won't my passengers transfer to alternate routes?
Severous gave a good answer. Just want to add that they will use up to 9 vehicles to reach their destination.
They won't go to a stop to reach there and go walking to the next one.

Offline lakehaze

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Re: 1870, no factories, stupid passengers?
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2011, 04:14:07 AM »
Thanks again for the help.

I gave up on 192.comic and started playing with pak128 (standard?).  But I still am not getting any factories in 1890.  There are also no locomotives available in the depot.

Is my map just too big?  This is really frustrating.  I'm spending more time on the forum than in the game.

Also, now I can't use my 'Show Ground by Level' because the option text covers the level selector.  I read that I should update to the 'Nightly', but that 'sim-wingdi.exe' says I am missing a dll.

How do I correctly apply the nightly build?  And is it worth it, or am I asking for more problems?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2011, 04:23:46 AM by lakehaze »

Offline sdog

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Re: 1870, no factories, stupid passengers?
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2011, 04:53:06 AM »
There is just no content this early in that pakset. Try a later starting date, for example the standard 1930 for open.pak128

The timeline goes back as far as 1890 only for pak64* and pak128.britain. you can find information on both in this forum.


*i'm not sure about this though.

Offline An_dz

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Re: 1870, no factories, stupid passengers?
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2011, 06:01:28 AM »
I gave up on 192.comic and started playing with pak128 (standard?).  But I still am not getting any factories in 1890.  There are also no locomotives available in the depot.
Have you read this?
pak128 is only playable from 1910 and on.

Also, now I can't use my 'Show Ground by Level' because the option text covers the level selector.  I read that I should update to the 'Nightly', but that 'sim-wingdi.exe' says I am missing a dll.

How do I correctly apply the nightly build?  And is it worth it, or am I asking for more problems?
The dll's are just above the download link for that nightly you downloaded.

Offline lakehaze

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Re: 1870, no factories, stupid passengers?
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2011, 08:04:14 AM »
I've uninstalled the game.

After I went back to regular pak (64) and was able to generate content in 1890, I ran into several additional glitches.

-Trains that had functioning routes suddenly became unable to find the route.  Maybe it's because I added a 4th platform section between 2 other stations?

-Goods were listed incorrectly in the train dialogue.  Lumber was always in the lumber car, oil was always deposited into the paper car, but moved to the oil car when the paper car was loaded.

-Goods units were bizarre.  9 paper rolls would be waiting on the platform.  In the platform dialogue box, at pickup, the value would count down (-8) to 1, but the train would only display 2 rolls collected.  Then on the next trip, it would display 8, always alternating values per delivery regardless of the platform count.

-Goods car would not fill to capacity, even with overproduction on the platform.  But this could be related to the above display problem.

I don't remember these problems when I played a couple years ago.  Maybe it's the 'online installer' that I used.  I'm going to try again with another installer option, and maybe the 'Nightly', if I can figure it out.

Offline Severous

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Re: 1870, no factories, stupid passengers?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2011, 09:40:38 AM »
Hiya Lakehaze.

If you are new then pak64 is a good place to start.  It takes a lot of play to become proficient in this complex simulation.

Re the trains - check your signals? Each signal can be both directions, or one direction.  There's two directions for the one way signal.  Those one way signals function like one way street signs, or no entry (depending upon your direction of travel).  Its possible you have a signal setting that stops a train going down the intended route. 

The other time i get this no route problem:
- Ive rearranged a station layout.  And the tile that is the station destination in the vehicle route is now not part of the network. Done that once in current game.
- A bridge has been built and looks connected but is missing a piece of track. Done that twice in my current game. 

Ive not experienced those sort of goods listing problems.  I recently did a fresh install using installer and added 4 different pak sets. Ive only playered pak64 standard so far. Working faultlessly. Thumbs up to dev's :-)


Offline An_dz

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Re: 1870, no factories, stupid passengers?
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2011, 04:57:14 PM »
Hi Lakehaze, answers:

1- Probably you did something that Severous told.

2 & 3- It can be bugs that is now fixed in the Nightly version.

4- If you want the train to fill 100% there are some things to list:
     - The platform needs to have the same size of the train. The last wagon needs to be inside it.
     - You need to say the train to wait in the station until it's totally filled. In the Line or Schedule management dialog there's an option called Minimum Load(%), click on the station you want and type 100. Now the train will wait at the platform.

To install a Nightly is easy. Now that you've uninstalled the standard version you can go to the Nighlty page and download the first link on the right column. It has all the dll's and config files needed to run Simutrans. Just extract, install a pakset and play.

Offline lakehaze

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Re: 1870, no factories, stupid passengers?
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2011, 05:40:03 AM »
Thanks again for the replies.  Most of your suggestions are in the starter guides, and I've had all of those problems one time or another, but these cases were something else.  I'm pretty sure I corrupted the game somehow and got it all buggy.  I deleted all Simutrans related data, including zip files (was necessary), and started from scratch.  Now I've got a rather complex and successful pak64 game running from year 1900.

I'm a little disappointed that the factory generator doesn't make use of all the space (most factories are clumped within two tiny areas of my 1024x512 map), but gameplay seems to be running well.

Is there a list of when vehicles become available in pak64?  I'm in need of a crate barge.

Offline sdog

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Re: 1870, no factories, stupid passengers?
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2011, 07:26:25 AM »
for large maps, you can try to increase factory spacing in the settings before starting a new map.

you can always start another (tiny) game with 'timeline' disabled, all vehicles are available in the depot.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: 1870, no factories, stupid passengers?
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2011, 10:10:32 PM »
I thought passengers were supposed to pick the optimum route. Waiting in a 400 queue hardly seems optimum.

In Standard, passengers take the route that requires fewest transfers/intermediate stops. In Experimental, passengers take the route with the lowest overall journey time, where journey time comprises travelling and waiting time.

Offline lakehaze

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Re: 1870, no factories, stupid passengers?
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2011, 04:21:03 AM »
Thanks james,

I think I've got it sorted now.  I had a pretty successful game running with road, rail, and ship travel operating as expected.  I've just installed experimental, and look forward to it's nuances.

Can anybody tell me why I can't unsubscribe from this thread?  I keep getting emails, and each time I say unsubscribe, and 'yes' on the linked page, but it keeps sending me new email updates.

Offline VS

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Re: 1870, no factories, stupid passengers?
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2011, 04:59:14 AM »
I can't tell you, as I don't know; but I used my admin super-powers to do the unsubscription for you... maybe it worked? ;D