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Author Topic: Bus-like trams  (Read 2280 times)

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Offline The Hood

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Bus-like trams
« on: November 26, 2011, 05:09:51 PM »
This is inspired by MHD's citytram graphics: http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=8633.0

I'm a big fan of having trams like this because:
- trams must interact with cars and other road traffic on street
- two-way trams can fit on a single tile which is ideal for city transport and looks more like trams in real life than using the rail-like tram option currently implemented

As far as I know at present there are a few gameplay limitations arising from coding trams as buses in the current setup:
- all trams are coded as electric as the "tram" tracks are an electrification way object so in theory no different to trolleybuses
- buses can run on "tram" tracks and "trams" can run on roads with trolleybus electrification but no "tram" track graphics
- trams appear in the bus depot

I'm proposing a change to fix the above problems and to my non-programmer but still logical brain I can see two possible options.  Perhaps programmers could comment on whether either is possible or desirable?

1) Allow for an additional way-object "tram track" within the "road" waytype which is independent of electrification.  Trams would require "tram track" in the same way trolleybuses require electrification, and electric trams would require both.  I would also propose having the ability to deny non-trams onto certain tram track sections - this could work in a similar way to the way constraints implemented in experimental.  All other logic would be the same allowing trams to interact with other vehicles.  trams would appear in a separate tab in the bus depot or even in a separate depot if possible
 
2) Create a new waytype "tram_bus" which would work in a similar way to how current trams work in relation to trains.  It is currently possible to overlay tram_track on top of road waytype, so I'm assuming it's possible to allow the new  "tram_bus" on top of road too, but also not on top of road in the same way as tram_track.  The new waytype would have similar logic to cars/buses rather than trains allowing it to interact with cars and buses when sharing street space (in a similar way to how trams have similar logic to trains and can interact with trains using signals etc on normal track). As this would be a new waytype this type of tram would have a unique depot.

Neither of these implementations would allow for signals (I understand the difficulties here following previous discussion on two-way rail tracks; in any case most city-centre tram systems use some form of line-of-sight control anyway I think, which is one reason tram/light rail is cheaper than conventional heavy rail).  Neither would it allow for tram-train operation as the trams would be completely independent of train logic.  However both of these implementations do not affect existing trams in any way so people could always choose the current style if they prefer using the tram_track waytype.

Offline MHD

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Re: Bus-like trams
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2011, 10:32:04 AM »
Wow...of course I support the request of The Hood and I can add one thing more:
For my actual type of  implementation, cross-connectivity of the tracks is not given. I attach a second type of Citytam-track, which I made for  later games (starting 1988).
The problem is, that the game does not recognize this track in the same way as the initial tram track. When you replace the older track by the newer, it does not connect the both tracks, but it
interrupts the track, showing the [N], [S ], [E] or [W] picture of the old track.
There is missing something like a 'constraint'-parameter for the track, which shows the game, that when there is a connection to the other track, everything is ok.
Anyway, when you think of train tracks, they are cross-connectible, because you can mix up all sort of train tracks and it will still connect them. Would it be a solution to define a new way_type?
I attach the second track, so you can reproduce it. Remember, it is a prototype and not finished so far...
 
MHD

Offline ӔO

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Re: Bus-like trams
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2011, 11:41:24 AM »
for electrification, if it was under experimental, I think it would be possible to define restrictions so that trams and buses only use their electrification type. similar to AC vs. DC.

how would the different way_type vehicles interact with each other when they are running on the same section? would they treat it the same as crossings or would they run over each other?
Currently, on tram tracks, road vehicles run through the train and don't treat it like a crossing.

Offline alexbaettig

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Re: Bus-like trams
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2011, 12:07:50 PM »
Maybe this was not the question but I think it would need to go into standard!
This feature is something so essential for the game play and its realistic quality! What you now do with trams is to build a railway in the city which is not always realistic.…
Just to make the point:
 -- Standard Simutrans --

Offline MHD

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Re: Bus-like trams
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2011, 08:44:53 PM »
Hi AEO,
I think, the objects on the streets should run through each other.
At a train-crossing, the CityTram should let pass the train (like you see it here: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_jQw7Cjfpp4c/STBGb1UGt2I/AAAAAAAAABs/hdgvpI2nUdU/s1600-h/Palmovka+%C5%A1ra%C5%88ky.jpg ) and should not be able to use the train tracks.
Maybe better than to define a waytype could be to have the Citytram defined as a new system_type in the group wayobject=road...
(Just a brainstorm: e.g. you could also make funiculars as a system-type, which drives on up-images only)